RedCafe.net - View Single Post

jasonrh · 13th March 2008, 14:44

The legality of the Florida mail-in is shaky at the very very best. The practicality of one in Michigan is equally shaky.

Technically it appears that a private re-vote is illegal (as a Floridian attorney who has looked at the issue I certainly think it is), but there might be an argument that it isn't actually a primary but is a private vote.

If it was just a private vote of invited members (who happen to be all of the Democrats registered in the state), then it would seem that they might be able to nominate "representatives" (as opposed to formal "delegates", because delegates must be selected via the state's formal election procedures) to the Democratic National Convention. However, if the courts consider it to be a primary-in-disguise that might disenfranchise anyone (like those who registered as Democrats late in the day, who send in their faux-ballots "late" or some such scenario), then they very well may either prohibit it from happening or (more likely) enjoin it until such time as the issue is litigated. That would be long after the August convention even if it was litigated on a fast-track basis.

There are huge legal problems with a re-vote in Florida. I don't think the campaigns truly realise it, and I know Howard Dean doesn't. He barely manages to remember to wipe after taking a shit, so I wouldn't trust him to figure anything out at all. He's the idiot who made this mess specifically because he wanted to show the country how tough he was.

In Michigan there is a better chance of a mail-in or a re-vote passing legal muster (a "firehouse primary" where you go to a private polling place designated and paid for by the party and informally vote is the more likely option), but there is a staggeringly massive practical problem. Michigan has no party affiliation in their registrations. So they would end up allowing both Republicans and Democrats to vote in the Democratic primary with no way of separating them out. This wasn't an issue in the previous primary because the Republican nomination was still in question.

Some Democrats (mainly pro-Hillary ones who want desperately to find some way to count the old vote) are claiming this all was some Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise Democrats.

The problems with that being that 1) Florida Democrats introduced the bill moving the primary into the state legislature; 2) both the Republican governor of Florida and the Democratic governor of Michigan have been side-by-side in attacking the DNC on this issue; and 3) the Republican governor of Florida is actually in favour of counting the original Hillary victory rather than spending taxpayer's money on a new vote.

The old "vast right wing conspiracy" trick of the Clinton's isn't going to work here.

Whether a re-vote will work remains to be seen. Obama's people think a mail-in vote in either state is wildly open to fraud (the party wouldn't even have access to the state's voter signature records to verify the votes), while Democrats in Florida absolutely oppose any sort of a re-vote.

The best solution is to just send the delegates to the convention at a 50/50 basis. No matter what happens the nomination will be decided by party bosses at the convention, so it isn't going to tip the race anyway.

13th March 2008, 14:44	#416 (permalink)
jasonrh Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: "You sir, are the syphilitic cockbiscuit son of a hamster rimmer."; "Sir Alex Ferguson, trainer of the English champions, wants to start the spoon fruits since early." Posts: 58,175	The legality of the Florida mail-in is shaky at the very very best. The practicality of one in Michigan is equally shaky. Technically it appears that a private re-vote is illegal (as a Floridian attorney who has looked at the issue I certainly think it is), but there might be an argument that it isn't actually a primary but is a private vote. If it was just a private vote of invited members (who happen to be all of the Democrats registered in the state), then it would seem that they might be able to nominate "representatives" (as opposed to formal "delegates", because delegates must be selected via the state's formal election procedures) to the Democratic National Convention. However, if the courts consider it to be a primary-in-disguise that might disenfranchise anyone (like those who registered as Democrats late in the day, who send in their faux-ballots "late" or some such scenario), then they very well may either prohibit it from happening or (more likely) enjoin it until such time as the issue is litigated. That would be long after the August convention even if it was litigated on a fast-track basis. There are huge legal problems with a re-vote in Florida. I don't think the campaigns truly realise it, and I know Howard Dean doesn't. He barely manages to remember to wipe after taking a shit, so I wouldn't trust him to figure anything out at all. He's the idiot who made this mess specifically because he wanted to show the country how tough he was. In Michigan there is a better chance of a mail-in or a re-vote passing legal muster (a "firehouse primary" where you go to a private polling place designated and paid for by the party and informally vote is the more likely option), but there is a staggeringly massive practical problem. Michigan has no party affiliation in their registrations. So they would end up allowing both Republicans and Democrats to vote in the Democratic primary with no way of separating them out. This wasn't an issue in the previous primary because the Republican nomination was still in question. Some Democrats (mainly pro-Hillary ones who want desperately to find some way to count the old vote) are claiming this all was some Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise Democrats. The problems with that being that 1) Florida Democrats introduced the bill moving the primary into the state legislature; 2) both the Republican governor of Florida and the Democratic governor of Michigan have been side-by-side in attacking the DNC on this issue; and 3) the Republican governor of Florida is actually in favour of counting the original Hillary victory rather than spending taxpayer's money on a new vote. The old "vast right wing conspiracy" trick of the Clinton's isn't going to work here. Whether a re-vote will work remains to be seen. Obama's people think a mail-in vote in either state is wildly open to fraud (the party wouldn't even have access to the state's voter signature records to verify the votes), while Democrats in Florida absolutely oppose any sort of a re-vote. The best solution is to just send the delegates to the convention at a 50/50 basis. No matter what happens the nomination will be decided by party bosses at the convention, so it isn't going to tip the race anyway.