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Originally Posted by Plechazunga
I'm not really talking about a grand weighing-up of rights and wrongs though, Frosty. Even those who think, say, the Empire was broadly a Good Thing for all concerned must admit that some Bad Things were done too. All I'm saying is, if you're going to feel pride about the one, it only makes sense to feel shame about the other.
For instance, most of us feel some shame about Britain's current entanglement in Iraq, but pride at our work in Sierra Leone. Well if that's so for current events, why should it not be so for history?
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Too complex.
I don't think that it is possible to have a discussion without reducing it to grand historicising. People tend to reduce events to simple dualities - right/wrong, good/evil etc. They also reduce complex scenarios to simpler ones, so that they can get their head round it. Just look at Iraq, or any political situation - things are much more complicated then they are ever made out in reports or the news.
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Originally Posted by crappycraperson
It is the same with everyone and everything.
Double standards.
As a general rule, just like being indoctrinated to follow a certain religion by your parents, you are brain washed to be patriotic and loyal to your country by the whole society. Just with religion, most people just play along with the latter. Some get really tribal about it while others may not be as strong flag wavers as others but when it comes down to it they will always back their country no matter what. Which brings us to your question, people will always relate with their country's achievements in past or present since by association they can feel happiness. The opposite is not a good deal for them so most just ignore it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crappycraperson
Most Brits won't feel ashamed for Iraq though. They will deflect it on Blair's judgement or even argue it was justified. Even though you voted him in again.
Same with British empire or even worse. Actually my theory is that Hitler essentially took off the heat from British for their colonial massacres. Alllies came off a good side after the WWII and all the focus was on Holocaust. By the time it was their turn to get stick, it turned out French did a lot worse and hence again British got put on the back burner. Never truly on world stage ever British got lynched for their empire's misadventures. Hence, there is no need for acknowledgement from Govt or people.
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Very true. People will always justify or differentiate events.