The best young player in the world (of a one nation sport)

Fergie's gum

so much effort, I almost feel bad doing this to you but here it goes...







Messi

cesc's_mullet

He's got sublime skills, and is rather quick. Very quick with the ball at his feet too.

That doesn't really explain, nor debunk anything.

I'm talking about in the future, a growing trend. Obviously you can't have a League full of 190cm agile monsters, but there will be a trend heading in that direction.

Players of immense/uber talent should always succeed though.

Fergie's gum

Size doesn't matter in football. You could have a Barthez or a VDS, a Stam or a Rio, a Makelele or a Viera, a Messi or a Drogba, a Wenger or a Benitez, depending on how you want to play. I agree with the fact that in general athletes are getting bigger and stronger, that's certain, but you will always get a little guy who can do things with a ball the big guys could never dream of.

Donado

What a fucking cunt

Collina

The posters talking about "Wrong forum" should really read what Cesc is writing.

cesc's_mullet

This will always be true, though the rate in which the bigger units are imporiving/upping their game is on the ascent. We're seeing more skilled, larger bodied and framed blokes excelling at sports that had traditionally been run by smaller players.

A perfect example is my grandpa, he used to play AFL for his local team, he was 188cm tall. He played in the ruck, which is the possition designated for the tallest player in your side. Back then he was considered tall.

Now-a days ruckmen are 200cm+ and midfielders, who were traditionally the little men are 180cm minimum. With the perfect height being 187-190cm.

The times are changing.

cesc's_mullet

Why would they bother mate?

Clearly I used words they can't understand.

KeyserSoze

I wrote something like that but it doesnt mean i did not understand i just did not think it was that relevant to football in my opinion. I wasnt criticizing u or anything as it was more interesting than some of the stuff on this site.

anything about now

wrong forum

SmashedHombre

I was having a similar discussion with my mate a few days ago. Is it only a matter of time before African teams start dominating world cups? Europeans and South Americans have dominated so far simply because they have the experience and the pedigree. But now these tall powerful Africans are starting to make their impact on the best leagues in the world. You only have to look at the Premier League to see that Drogba is arguably the best centre forward and Essien arguably the best midfielder in the League. Yet they don't display the technical abilities of their European counterparts like Cesc or Berbatov. It's their pure strength and power that makes them so scary. I think we eventually came to the conclusion that although players like cesc and scholes are smaller than your Essiens and Diarra's, they are by no means lesser players or less effective. As Fergies Gum said small guys are always going to have the technical advanatge over larger players. I would take a Messi or a Xavi over an Essien every day of the week for example. What you also have to take into consideration in todays game are the refs. Look at Crouch for example, he gets the whistle blown for a foul against him simply because he is taller than the defender half the time. Another advantage for the smaller player. The game is evolving and some players are getting bigger and stronger, but I really don't see thes eplayers dominating the game. Fans love to see technical players over brawny ones. Even in the premier league, we are top of the table despite not being anywhere near the biggest team around. Yet Chelsea who are full of these tall powerful athletes are playing catch up.

Actually I'm not really sure where I am going with this, its friday morning and I have just eaten a whole bar of dairy milk and nut for breakfast so I'm feeling a bit light headed. I don't even know what sport the bloke cescs mullt is talking about plays, as I cant watch the video due to being at work.

cesc's_mullet

Thank you Smashed. Great post.

And I can't believe I didn't use the African players continued emergence into the world stage as an example. Maybe that would've warded this threat from the idiots.

The bigger players are, and will, become more technically gifted with the right development programs in place. But maybe not to the extent they do in the AFL and other sports like Grid Iron and Rugby, when you think about it more precise skill is involved with the world game, if only because the players can not use their hands. Maybe European Football will be immune to such drastic developments.

Also, if you get a chance - watch those vids!

cesc's_mullet

LOLies!!!!!!11one1!1

cesc's_mullet

You want a patt on the back or something mate?

You also posted that 'shut the fuck up' picture. Which I see you've now deleted.

FranklyVulgar

Interesting points and i agree with you. Just look at success at international level in football. People will point to Germany and say big or whatever but actually look at Germanys greatest players? how many are the stereotypical big strong athletic german?

Brazil win most because they have the best players regardless of size. Italy will never be a nation with loads of 6ft 5 beastly men.

If you have a team full of 6ft 5 monsters you still wont win anything, every team needs players not just athletes.

SmashedHombre

Yeal I will take a look at them when I get home. I do see the African nations catching up with the European teams, infact I'll even put my leg out and say an African team will win a World cup in the next 20 years. But I don't think they will ever dominate the sport.

Although as you say, with their influx into the European game they are getting more and more technical as well and many are also starting to develop a better footballing brain. But look at some of the most 'intelligent' footballers in the world. Scholes, Cesc, Xavi, Pirlo...they're all small guys yet they can change a game without having to use strength to power through the opposition team. One killer ball that can take out 3 or 4 opposition players is surely just as deadly as a surging run from some tall powerful guy. I suppose a classic example of this argument is Ronaldo and Messi. Who is the better player. Ok Ronaldo has the technical ability, but his strength, height and power are his main asset. Messi on the other hand has a short, wraith like build. He looks like he can br brushed of the ball and shouldn't be able to succeed against bigger, more powerful athletes. And yet he tore us apart, taller players like Carrick for example couldn't get he ball off of him. Our new signing Anderson is only the size of Scholes, yet I still remember fondly the way he shrugged Drogba off the ball.

Although there is maybe a bigger influx of taller, more powerful players in the top leagues, a lot of them don't play fot the top clubs. You only have to look at the best players in the world in the past to see that technical ability is always going to be more important and appreciated than size and strength.

FranklyVulgar

Almost every player will be moulded by trainers these days. Even Messi has a certain bulk about him.

Physically players do have to adapt, the game is more demanding and nowhere more so than in the premiership. So even players who are not naturally strong and physical will be forced to do alot of gym work to bulk up to compete at the top level.

Ronaldo has an incredible physique but when he first arrived in england he was nowhere near that build although he was very young and most probably not fully developed however he has clearly done alot of work to get himself into the physical condition he is in. Rooney on the other hand probably doesnt do much but has a natural heavy build. As a 16 year old at everton he was already built like a boxer and you get the impression if he wasnt an athelete he would be a bouncer or something

Even Fletcher who was rakelike in his first 2-3 seasons as a young player now has more physical presence now and that is down to hard work in the gym which is part of the modern game.

Lazlo Woodbine

I doubt that "athletes" will take over football in the same way that it is happening with other sports. The sports where it's happening most are the ones where physical attributes dominate skills for being the most desirable trait. If you are big, fast and strong then you'll do well at both forms of rugby without too much skill, but you won't be playing at stand off without the skills. They will put you on the wing. What skill you'll need can be taught (look at that extremely quick winger for the USA for instance)
On the other hand football balances more toward the skill side of the game. Speed is an attribute that is being coveted, but if you look at the likes of Bellion, it's very difficult to take a quick football player and make him great if he hasn't got the skills.
In most positions on the pitch in football size won't really matter, except for Goalkeeper and centre backs. Certain types of centre forwards would benefit too but it's by no means essential.
Take the AFL fella you are talking about, I'm sure from your description he'd make a good rugby player or american football player at some position without being fabulously talented, his physical attributes would mask a lack of talent. I doubt, without natural talent, though he'd be any good at sports like cricket, soccer, squash etc where the balance is much more toward the skill side of the game.
Don't get me wrong, it's by no means easy to walk into a top Rugby union side, but if you are big, strong and quick it would be easier than getting into a top soccer side or being the top badminton player in the world for instance.

Chris H

You know what else would have warded us idiots off? Not making us wade through 25 paragraphs of horseshit about a player from a sport none of us care about before actually saying something about football. Not Australian Rules Football - football.

Next time get to the damn point, and we might bother to address the small fraction of your post that's actually relevant. And in general, when starting a thread, less is usually more. If it takes you TWO ridiculously long posts to make your point...most of us aren't going to stick around long enough to hear what you have to say. Because 9 times out of 10 such posts don't have anything to say at all except "Hey look at me I'm a schmuck!" or "We should buy Harry Kewell, he's brilliant!"

As for the relevant part...yes, football is going to invaded by big, gigantic, fast, strong Africans. On steroids. With guns. High out of their gourds on amphetamines. And with gigantic genitalia that make white and Asian people feel inadequate and frightened. Oh noes! Football will cease to exist as we know it. Tiny South American players will only be wanted in crap leagues like MLS. South Korea will lose 12-0 to Angola in a World Cup match. Manucho and ten other ginormous players will lead United to victory, and the heads of Wee Cesc and Minisculo Messi will adorn twin pikes beside his throne. All hail Manucho, the Big Gigantic Pele! Christ this Wigan game needs to happen soon, that's my only point really.

See how I buried the point after a whole bunch of complete nonsense? That's like a metaphor or something. Seriously though, can we play Wigan on Saturday? I'm ready now. Fergie FFS get it sorted.

sincher

I tidied this thread up a bit.

My view on this is that people have been predicting for a while that the game will become more and more dominated by players with amazing physiques, and this has become true to a certain extent, especially in the basic professional (rather than big star) end of the game.

But I think football, like a few other sports, will always find room for those with really special talent, even if their physique is not amazing. Put Messi up against any player you like and he'll still beat him.

Wes

mods? get this shite outta my face, ffs.

sincher

Moved to Other Sport.

Not really a footy thread Cesc sorry - I know you had a genuine question but even that was a general sporting question, and there was too much spiel about aussie rules in the lead-up to it.

enghuei

This thread is back to where it truly belongs

FresnoBob

To avoid further problems on what is meant by "Football"
Association football is "Eurokickball"
Rugby Football (either code) is "Egg chasing"
Gridiron football is (your choice) "throw ball," "oblong ball," "steroid ball," or "some f***ing American game"
Aussie Rules Football is "Aerial Pingpong"
Gaelic Football is "some bizarre activity only the Irish would think up"

KeyserSoze

That is along the lines of what i was thinking but could not be bothered to say. To say all Africans are big and powerful is a crazy statement, im sure players like Hargreaves and Gerrard have more power and stamina than 90% of african players!!!! The bit about genitalia was a bit out there though

Cold_Boy

What the feck is this thread about?