Wimbledon

KeyserSoze

brophs

Shock horror, Andy Murray having a(nother) moan. The archetypal player who seems to do his talking off the court.

Sam#1

Couldn't agree more. He talks the talk, but he doesn't exactly walk the walk. Just look at his Personal bests...

Australian Open - 4th Round (2007)
French Open - 3rd Round (2008)
Wimbledon - 4th Round (2006)
US Open - 4th Round (2006)

Hmmm....

BaldwinLegend

Here you go again - you're deriding the 'personal best' of a 21 year old who has been the No. 8 player in the world, won 5 titles, got to the 4th round of 3 of the 4 Grand Slams, is the British No. 1 and has broken out of a tennis system here which has been steeped in failure for 60 or so years, with the notable exception of Tim Henman.

It's similar to your attitude on Fletcher and O'Shea who you seem to think are similar failures....

I presume you are the number 1 in the world at what you do?

Sam#1

If he just shut up and stopped talking, and just did his talking on on the court, then there wouldn't be a problem. And please, if you have a problem with what I've said, you should also have quoted brophs and have a go at him, because I was responding to his comment. Or is it just a case of you having a personal grudge? Yeah, thought so.

Pathetic.

brophs

Oi, Samuel, what are you at? Don't be dragging me down with your sinking ship

Sam#1

brophs

Those figures only tell half the story though. Murray has basically stopped developing in the last year or so. Lots of people talk about his injuries, but when he has had a good run of fitness, he has been underperforming for quite a while now.

He got rid of arguably the best coach in the world(Brad Gilbert), and replaced it with his entourage(basically friends and family). Those are not the actions of a winner. Murray has decided to take the easy option, under the guise of "being more relaxed" on tour. He has yet to realise that to be great, like the Federer's, and Nadal's of this world, you have to work harder than everyone else, and let your talent out. I never get that impression from Murray.

Murray has talked at great length about how he feels he can become the best player in the world, and consistently beat the top players, yet he hasn't made serious inroads into the later rounds of big tournaments, and given the talent he seems to believe he is possessed of, 5 career titles is scant reward, given the number of tournaments he has actually played in.

During Murray's last full match at Queen's, when he went down injured, Andrew Castle spoke in quite a jaded way about how Murray liked the limelight, and is prone to attention-seeking and exaggeration. This from someone who works with him on the Davis Cup team. Not a good sign.

I think Murray can become a very good player, but he needs to change his attitude, and start earning what he gets, rather than moaning about being hard done by all the time. Hopefully he will, as it always heightens the interest levels when a British player is involved.

He HAS been number 8 in the world. Not any more. His career progression seems to have stalled of late. The fourth rounds of Grand Slams is not a great return for someone who considers himself to be in the upper echelons of the players on the tour. Of course he may train on, and become a great player, but I've always subscribed to the theory of 'don't say anything until you've got something to say.' Murray obviously doesn't agree with me.

BaldwinLegend

A load of patronising crap from someone who knows very, very little. Seriously, listen to yourself - " The fourth rounds of Grand Slams is not a great return for someone who considers himself to be in the upper echelons of the players on the tour" Who the fuck do you think you are? He's 21 FFS... Anyone will tell you that currently Federer, Nadal and Djokovic lead the way in men's tennis, and Murray is in a select group that are right behind them. Hell, Nadal and Djokovic are so good at the moment that even Federer is seriously struggling against them.

Try taking your own advice...

BaldwinLegend

Stop being such a prissy little pussy. You're spouting your ill-informed shit on a public discussion board, so you should expect to be told back what a boring little prick you are. You have zero right to tell posters which posters they are and are not entitled to disagree with.

brophs

Not one argument in there worth responding to, but I might as well try anyway. I can't imagine why my post has riled you so much, since this is a discussion board. I re-read it, and I cannot see one sentence that was patronising, much less intended to be that way. If you believe I genuinely know so little, have a read of what the tennis analysts are saying about Murray. They are far more qualified to deal with the topic, and almost to a man, they are saying much of what I've said.

I'm not sure what "who do you think you are", has to do with anything. I responded to your post fairly, even though I don't necessarily agree with it. I'm giving my opinions, as we are all entitled to do on here. If you honestly feel the best way to do that is by being abusive and rude, then of course that is your choice.

I agree that Murray is a good player, but he is far from a great one, and no amount of talking will change that. I would like to see him develop into a top class player, but his career progression so far suggests that won't happen. Again, I agree those three you mentioned are out there on their own, and are special players, but Murray has been very vocal in saying he believes he has the talent to beat them. If that is the case, why isn't he? In fact, right now he isn't even matching that group you mentioned which is following the big three.

You talk about him being 21, but he is less than a year younger than Nadal (28 Career titles), and a week older than Djokovic(10 career titles). Of course everyone develops at different ages, but he is no longer just a young lad with potential, it is about time he delivered on that potential.

Brad

Hmm, fun lads

Anyway... to the womens game. Here are the Wimbledon seedings:

1. Ana Ivanovic (Srb), 2. Jelena Jankovic (Srb), 3. Maria Sharapova (Rus), 4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (Rus), 5. Elena Dementieva (Rus), 6. Serena Williams (US), 7. Venus Williams (US), 8. Anna Chakvetadze (Rus), 9. Dinara Safina (Rus), 10. Daniela Hantuchova (Svk), 11. Marion Bartoli (Fra), 12. Patty Schnyder (Swi), 13. Vera Zvonareva (Rus), 14. Agnieszka Radwanska (Pol), 15. Agnes Szavay (Hun), 16. Victoria Azarenka (Blr)

Given Wimbledon have their own seeding system, I'm a little suprised to see Sharapova seeding 3rd - surely her history here compared to the 2 players above her merits more than that? - and the reigning champion seeded 7th.

Just looking at the names in that list though, I think it's a bleakish time for womens tennis. For years it had some of the great names competing against each other - we're talking Hingis, Seles, Henin, Davenport, Capriati, Clijsters, the Williams sisters at full pomp... it's pretty depressing the fate they've all endured. Most have retired, many injured out of the game... it's a pale shadow of just a few years ago. For all we like Ivanovic (especially the lads!), I wouldn't say she's that good that she should be a grand slam champion at the age of 20. The field simply isn't what it once was

Sam#1

You really are an abusive little shit aren't you? Worst poster on this board by a mile. If you hadn't been so abusive I would have bothered to respond to all the bull you've written, but I'm not going to waste my time with pricks like you.

Instant Karma

WTF...the seedings hugely favor Federer again.

Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick, Nalbandian and Bhagdatis to battle it out on one side of the draw while Roger has an easy time to the finals against the likes of Davydenko, Ferrer, Blake and Gasquet

Name Changed

He was number 8, he is not any more.

He does have an awful habit of being knocked out early in the Grand Slams, yet he has a problem that he is not ranked better than twelfth? He is lucky to be ranked that high.

I wouldn't mind if he does well once he cuts out the talk and does his actions on court. Anyone can talk. He shouldn't though, he has even less charisma than Tim Henman, and he was the most uncharasmatic sportsman in years.

BaldwinLegend

I agree on Sharapova's seeding - I think Wimbledon used to make a point of really bumping up the seedings of the proven grass court players but have backed down it bit in recent years after big controversies involving disgruntled clay court players.

It seems like the women's player's bodies just can't take the strain of modern tennis as well as the mens. As you point out, a heck of a lot of major talent has disappeared from the women's game in a very short amount of time leaving a major talent and personality vacuum.

I still think both the Williams sisters can and likely will win further majors - I wouldn't be amazed if one of them won this year at Ivanovic's or Sharapova's expense.

BaldwinLegend

Fair enough - I was actually making an intelligent point though which sadly seems to have passed you completely by.

Brophs pointed out above that the majority of tennis experts would concur with his views on Murray.

There is also a consensus in British tennis that the view which I believe you espouse - namely that failing to win a Grand Slam equates to a failed career - is what is harming the game in the UK. This attitude is so prevalent in the UK press, especially the tabloids, that it increases the pressure on athletes, and leads to uninformed members of the public - you are a perfect example - assuming that athletes who are actually extremely successful are let downs, failures and losers who failed to fulfill their potential.

I'm sorry, but you've displayed this attitude here and in your thread on Darren Fletcher and John O'Shea...

I'm just trying to point out to you that it is all too easy for you to sit at your computer spouting off your appraisals of athletes, declaring them failures - when you should actually STFU and realise how successful they are.

I don't hold out any hope in you actually realising this - and I'll admit I'm using you to get my point across to some extent - but I think the point is extremely valid - that is that in this country we do not recognise, celebrate and support our talent to the same extent that many other countries do.

brophs

Why you couldn't have got involved in the debate in this(much more constructive, and if you don't mind my saying, interesting) way, rather than being abusive, I don't know. But I agree with some of the points you are making. Success is a relative thing, and often, we the viewing public view it as a black and white line which is winning and losing. That's fair enough. But it's not what I am saying about Murray.

He has done wonderfully well to get where he is, but that challenge is gone now. The next challenge for him is to break into that very top group of players. So far, his showings in tournaments doesn't suggest he is going to do that. I think(and hope) he can, but my optimism is fading.

Obviously he is a wonderfully gifted player, and one who is better than 99.999999999999999% of the population at tennis. I would give anything to be as talented as he is. Unfortunately that's not the case, and it often frustrates me when I hear him bemoaning more bad luck/seedings/ranking/coaching problems etc.

He has the potential to be a really good player-not top 2/3, but close enough. I have been watching him since he first came onto the scene, and the only part of his game where he has made great strides is his conditioning. Other than that, he has improved, but nowhere near as much as his potential should provide for.

bazalini

Howaya Baldwin - Would agree with Brophs.

Welcome and agree on your points but lets stay away from the abusiveness. We tend to have a good following on the tennis and I am sure we all will have lots to say on Wimbledon in the coming.


BTW Rawanska now into 70's on Betfair. I seriously think this girl is one to watch. In semi tomorrow against Bartoli at Eastbourne. If she is there second week will be very hard to beat

KeyserSoze

Thats not totally true. Federer cannot meet Nadal until the final but could face Novak Djokovic in the last four, while Roddick seems a likely opponent for Nadal in the last four. Thats the benefit of Federer being on top for so long anyway.

Wonder Pigeon

I'm Andy Murray and so is my wife.

bazalini

Looks like Rawanska has picked at Eastbourne. Won it at three.

Into 30's now from 80's at start of week for Wimbledon.

Hope youse got on.

massey

Murrays the best tennis athlete in the world though ,Imo He might suffer the tim henman syndrome allthough more promising needs to put on weight or will forever be out punched by nadal,federer and djokovic.

Sam#1

Brilliant stuff on Centre.

WeWonItTwoTimes

Ana's now on court.

Sam#1

Far to easy. Ivanovic takes the first set 6-1 in just 23 minutes.