Before the Big Bang?

Saliph

No they don't.

Wibble

I think you would find it hard to find a scientist who thinks the Big Bang as we currently know it is 100% unchangeable fact.

I don't think you have a good handle on reasoning or scientific enquiry for that matter. A belief in a creator is a hypothesis. If we treat it like every other hypothesis then we would look for evidence of which there is currently none. The Big Bang is a hypothesis for which there is a great deal of evidence even though we also know that we don't have the whole story yet.

You could "disprove" religion using a null hypothesis I suppose. But why would you bother?

And it is nothing to do with having definite answers. It is about misusing your brain.

Wibble

Exactly

Saliph

Atheism is a term we really shouldn't need. We have no word to describe disbelief in Santa Claus, fairies, astrology or green swans, for example, and the reasons are, quite simply, both that the implications of actually believing any of those things are rather benign, and first and foremost that very few people actually do believe it.
And one of the major points of Hitchens, Dawkins, and the rest of the so-called New Atheists, is that this kind of thinking/belief is constrained by our common sense in every other area of discourse, and that atheism is merely applying the same kind of reasoning to the question of a creator/god. Saying "we don't know" is not a valid reason for actively believing in something, thus making atheism the default position.

x42bn6

You can't prove God doesn't exist, anyway (that's proving a negative). You can't prove you aren't a murderer, for example.

It is up to those who posit some deity to prove that that deity exists. Nobody has been able to.

On the other hand, there is proof to some of the elements of the Big Bang, built on through theories and research such as Lemaître, Einstein and Hubble. Sure, the Big Bang theory is probably a whole lot less complete and sound than, say, some of our more fundamental mathematical theories, but the fact is that we have a whole lot more evidence for the Big Bang than there being a creator.

It's not that science rules out the possibility of there being a creator - it's just that there is no evidence to suggest there is.

You might be interested in: Spectrum of theistic probability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

VeevaVee

What if you recorded every single moment of your life? What if you've just been born and there are five witnesses to say you haven't murdered anyone?

Happy to contribute to this thread.

Peasplease

Well put, xbn

x42bn6

Thankfully, nobody ever accuses babies of murder, and nobody ever records themselves 24/7 (and the footage could be doctored, of course).

Even if it were possible, there is no reason for someone to go to unreasonable attempts to disprove accusations of murder. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Faith's best evidence, however, is that "we don't know" - therefore God.

niMic

This thread is getting downright Descartesian.

Pimpy the Magic Elf

Is ok to call religious people a bit silly because it's highly impropbale hat God existst. I mean the existence of God is less probale than Steve Gerrard lifting the Premier League Trophy. Think about that!

africanspur

Alain de Botton reveals plans for 'temple to atheism' in heart of London | World news | The Guardian

Ubik

Ridiculous idea

solvista

You know, atheists believe that there was once nothing, then nothing happened to nothing, until suddenly nothing magically exploded for no apparent reason which created everything; and then everything eventually started to magically rearrange itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits of something that then turned into dinosaurs. The Pope believes that a giant invisible wizard did it...with the help of a talking snake.

Silva

Rene Descarte walks into a café and orders a coffee, the waitress asks him if he would like some sugar with that, he says "I think not!" and vanishes in a poof of existential smoke!