Canada withdraws from the Kyoto treaty.

Twisted_Woody

I have noticed. I was just being matter of fact as opposed to engaging you on your WUM...

Cock.


This is embarrassing. About half the posts in this thread are half decent and then you turn up with this tripe.

Raoul

The funniest bit is that he's posting from Australia.

Twisted_Woody

I'll add to the humour.

Wibble

I have indeed. Which is why my response was so measured. Climate change deniers wouldn't get such a measured response.

I can't believe just how selfish and stupid people can be. Silly of me I know but I still try to cling to the hope that humans are essentially good.

Wibble

An angry irrational Canadian living in Australia? I wonder if he follows his own "logic" and refuses to hold an opinion about anything in Australia?

niMic

I just noticed this post. This is absolute bollocks. I knew you were on the right in many things, big and small, but I didn't realize you were a climate change denier to boot.

There is no "debate"; the science is not "inconclusive"; we know what causes climate change. The only inconclusive part is whether it will be bad or fucking terrible. You're usually quite knowledgeable, no matter your political leaning, but this is fairly shocking.

Raoul

Its a popular talking point of the status quo brigade. The science is inconclusive therefore we should do nothing. Standard corporatist drivel.

niMic

I just read Merchants of Doubt a few months ago. It's really telling how the same tactics, and even the same people, have been involved in everything from climate change to acid rain to tobacco.

Twisted_Woody

Oilsands' carbon emissions rising - Technology & Science - CBC News

Oilsands' carbon emissions rising...surprise surprise...

Wibble

Apart from the last sentence I agree. Baby Cameron sounds knowledgeable but then always says what you would expect baby Cameron to say no matter what the evidence is. Basically the words are dressing up what he has already decided is the truth. Typical Tory. He'd make a good politician. Predetermined ideas and the face to talk any old bollocks in a reasonably convincing manner to support the party line.

Team Brian GB

And people say I take absolute stances.

On a related note, the EU is doing its absolute best to drive the rest of the world mental on multiple fronts, the latest of which is carbon usage by airlines.

The Americans are irate and the Chinese are ignoring them.

niMic

I don't follow. Are you actually still trying to suggest that the science is in some way not settled? Perhaps just come right out and say it, if you are, so we can get that out of the way.

Wibble

As you say only the degree/speed of change is debatable. And even then our actions don't currently address even the most optimistic estimates.

Eriku

There are also studies of the media coverage suggesting a very skewed angle presented in the favour of climate change skepticism. It always neglects to mention that any skeptics are in a very small minority within the scientific community of the world.

Dr. Dwayne

watch it TW, I'm an admin now.

Twisted_Woody

204Red

.... pst... hey other Canadians on here (especially that guy from Montreal)... don't mention our asbestos exports on here (most of which comes from Quebec... home the aptly named town of Asbestos)... it might upset some people.

w'or bobby

And the connection is ....?

Dr. Dwayne

We still happily export the stuff.

Dr. Dwayne

Don't tell them about Dildo and Swastika!

204Red

The fact that we lead the developed world in exporting a highly contentious carcinogenic product to the 'third' world... I would think people might not think so highly of the federal gov't support of the asbestos industry in Canada.

Kinda fits with our dropping of Kyoto and our oil sands development.

w'or bobby

In fact, though, the asbestos industry has has support from all stripes of government, liberal or conservative, separatist or federalist, at provincial and federal levels.

The employment and financial consequences trump what happens with the product.



Kyoto however splits cleanly between tory and other here.
Big business and it's paid lackeys (e.g. pseudo-scientists, National Post lobbyists disguised as journalists and assorted lunatic-right bloggers)convince libertarians, the uneducated and the angry anti-government
brigade that it's all a scam.

Very different story, methinks.

Twisted_Woody

And another 60 scientists are fired from Environment Canada.

w'or bobby

And our Minister for Natural Resources proposes to limit environmentalists' input to enquiries as "They all say the same thing."

Shades of the b-movie war-criminal and his "When you've seen one redwood, you've seen them all."

Alzheimers seems too kind for him and Maggie - they get to forget it all.

Drainy

They all say the same thing? Its called a consensus..

Wibble

More bad news relating to CO2 levels

Carbon dioxide in oceans gives fish a deathwish | TG Daily

Dr. Dwayne

To be fair, some government scientists freaked out a few months back because they lost a herd or caribou. The were made to eat some humble pie by Inuit elders. It's no surprise some are getting the sack.

Twisted_Woody

You're right, but not for the reasons you mention.

I think 39% of eligible voters are going all Ostrich on us...

w'or bobby

Interesting continuation on asbestos:

McGill asbestos study flawed, epidemiologist says - Canada - CBC News

204Red

I saw the CBC piece on this a couple of days ago...

They also had a great piece a year or two back, where they went to an India construction site and saw that there was no-one using any of the protective gear which you are supposed to use which makes it "safe" to use Asbestos as a construction material.

The government's backing of the Asbestos industry is baffling... yes I understand the jobs aspect, but banning something in your own country due to health issues and then happily selling it to others who are less concerned with safety protocols smacks of hypocrisy at the highest levels.

Dr. Dwayne

It is very important to win seats in Quebec. All the parties will agree.

204Red

yeah... but the promotion of the Asbestos industry really seems like selling your soul.

Maybe the Glazers should sign Stephen Harper!

Dr. Dwayne

They'd do well to pluck for anyone from the previous Liberal Government as well, I reckon the PMs fee would be prohibitive...especially once the provinces get wind of any form of transfer payments.

Thetford Mines is so hot nobody will touch it.

What's funny is what should be done there and won't be because of votes and money (close it down and try to help the people move on to better things) is pretty well what they did to the Cod industry in Newfoundland, only there 20,000 people lost their jobs instead of 800 and it was for mostly environmental reasons...how times change.

w'or bobby

Can't we give him to Liverpool on a free?

Twisted_Woody

This is a follow up to the ocean acidification side track this thread took:


Oceans at Fastest Acidifying Rate in 300M Years

Oceans at Fastest Acidifying Rate in 300M Years


The emission of the carbon dioxide greenhouse gas is apparently causing oceans to acidify at a much faster rate today that they usually did in the past 300 million years.

Researchers at Columbia University found only one period, the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), a period approximately 55 to 56 million years ago, that had such rapid acidic change. Signs of the PETM are still visible as brown mud layer in ocean sediment cores that are flanked by thick deposits of white plankton fossils, the researchers said. During the period, a surge in carbon concentration in the atmosphere increased the temperature of Earth and "turned the oceans corrosive".

According to the research published, carbon dioxide in the air reacts with seawater and creates carbonic acid, which is neutralized over time by fossil carbonate shells on the seafloor. However, too much carbon can deplete the carbonate ions that are needed by organisms such as corals, mollusks and some plankton for shell construction. Oversupply of carbonic acid can therefore result in the loss of corrals, oysters and salmon, Baerbel Hoenisch, a paleoceanographer at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory said.

During a period of 5,000 years of the PETM - some claim it may have lasted for as long as 20,000 years - atmospheric carbon doubled to 1,800 parts per million (ppm), and average global temperatures rose by about 6 degrees Celsius, causing about on half of all one-cell organisms on the sea floor to disappear, which may have taken more complex life forms with them as well. Over the past 100 years, the scientists estimate that the pH value of the oceans has fallen by about 0.1, which is a rate that is believed to be 10 times faster than it happened during the PETM.

The findings have led the researchers to create lab tests to eventually predict the effects of the current acidification of oceans. However, they noted that there are too many variables (high carbon dioxide, water temperature, reduced ocean pH, dissolved oxygen levels ) at play and a forecast is "difficult.

adexkola

Could we just pour some NaOH into the ocean?

Zen86

Deary me, Team Brian's had a nightmare in this thread.

Acidification is certainly the fly in the ointment for those relying on geo-engineering to eventually save us from climate change.