Christians in Israel?

Fitzjames · 2nd May 2008, 00:09

"The leaders of the four main churches in Ireland have been refused entry to a holy site in Jerusalem during a visit to the Middle East.

It is understood a local Jewish settler objected to the leaders wearing crucifixes when they made an unscheduled stop at the Western Wall.

The Israeli government said it was unaware of the visit to the wall.

A spokesman said that the four churchmen would be welcomed if they made another visit.

Cardinal Brady said they had accepted an apology from the Israeli government.

"That place is one of tension and high sensitivities," he said.

"In fact, if we have caused some inconvenience to them, we regret it very much.

"That is not our intention. We are here on a pastoral visit to promote understanding and peace." "

This is of course the work of a lone nutter. And it is good news and very honourable of Israels Government to apolgise, thus restoring Israels good name.

holyland red · 2nd May 2008, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

"The leaders of the four main churches in Ireland have been refused entry to a holy site in Jerusalem during a visit to the Middle East.

It is understood a local Jewish settler objected to the leaders wearing crucifixes when they made an unscheduled stop at the Western Wall.

The Israeli government said it was unaware of the visit to the wall.

A spokesman said that the four churchmen would be welcomed if they made another visit.

Cardinal Brady said they had accepted an apology from the Israeli government.

"That place is one of tension and high sensitivities," he said.

"In fact, if we have caused some inconvenience to them, we regret it very much.

"That is not our intention. We are here on a pastoral visit to promote understanding and peace." "

This is of course the work of a lone nutter. And it is good news and very honourable of Israels Government to apolgise, thus restoring Israels good name.

Restoring Israel's good name? What are you on about, and why is this weird story worth a thread?

Fitzjames · 2nd May 2008, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by holyland red

Restoring Israel's good name? What are you on about, and why is this weird story worth a thread?

A weird story?
Well if an Islamist nutter in London objected to a Star of David or Cross in Ireland we would quite properly onsider him to be a nutter and we would find him repulsive.
A Christian nutter (and we have more than a few by the way) would not (quite properly) get away with telling a person that they could not wear a Star of David or crescent.

The fact that you find this story merely weird rather than repulsive (the Israeli government was gracious enough to apologise AND RESTORE THE FREE AND DEMOCRATIC CREDENTIALS OF THEIR NATION.

....stands in stark contrast to your lack of condemnation of an Israeli nutter.

In the peculiar world you inhabit no Israeli is capable of wrong doing. No non Israeli capable of any good. Sad, very very sad.

DoctorEvil · 2nd May 2008, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

A weird story?
Well if an Islamist nutter in London objected to a Star of David or Cross in Ireland we would quite properly onsider him to be a nutter and we would find him repulsive.
A Christian nutter (and we have more than a few by the way) would not (quite properly) get away with telling a person that they could not wear a Star of David or crescent.

I don't think your examples corresponds to the story (as I understood it). A more appropriate example would be if a nutter would object someone entering his church with a symbol of another religion. Moreover, in this case we are speaking on the holiest place for Jews, making the issue more sensitive.

Plechazunga · 2nd May 2008, 19:13

It's a strange article. The nutter in question is described as a 'local Jewish settler'.... do they mean he's from a settlement in East Jerusalem? Or do they describe any Jerusalem Jew as a 'settler'... controversial if so, given that there was a sizeable Jewish majority in the city even before the foundation of the State of Israel.

Fitzjames · 2nd May 2008, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorEvil

I don't think your examples corresponds to the story (as I understood it). A more appropriate example would be if a nutter would object someone entering his church with a symbol of another religion. Moreover, in this case we are speaking on the holiest place for Jews, making the issue more sensitive.

Actually I believe a number of Christian church going people do wear Stars of David.
They are available in most High Street stores and Im not aware that they are only sold to Jewish people.

ThatOldRedMagic · 2nd May 2008, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plechazunga

It's a strange article. The nutter in question is described as a 'local Jewish settler'.... do they mean he's from a settlement in East Jerusalem? Or do they describe any Jerusalem Jew as a 'settler'... controversial if so, given that there was a sizeable Jewish majority in the city even before the foundation of the State of Israel.

Crosses? Stars? Crescents? Little different from football allegiances; United; Arsenal; Liverpool. Except that in the case of religion it's serious. Few people have been burned at the stake for being an Arsenal supporter. And flying jets into buildings seldom ensues in the wake of Liverpool being deprived of the Premier League title.

We should all stick to football. And read this book;
http://www.samharris.org/site/book_end_of_faith

Fitzjames · 2nd May 2008, 22:46

A strange article.........but mostly a sad one.
If one considers an Irish catholic priest, Hugh O'Flaherty who died in 1963 and was responsible for spiriting many thousands of allied prisoners and Jews during World War 2.
He is honoured at Yad Vashem (apologies if I spelt it wrong) as Righteous Among The nations along with such people as Pope John XXIII and several Christians from many denominations, it just seems like an ungrateful act on (ironically) Holocaust Day.
No harm done. No fatalaties. Apologies all round.
Just sad.

Redlambs · 2nd May 2008, 22:57

I object to all man-made religious symbols being within 100yards of me. Can I be thread-starting news now?

Fitzjames · 2nd May 2008, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

I object to all man-made religious symbols being within 100yards of me. Can I be thread-starting news now?

I daresay you can start that thread but dare i suggest its a little unrealistic.
much more realistic for YOU not to go within 100 metres of a religious icon or somewhere wearing one.

By all means restrict your own liberties, not others liberties.

Redlambs · 3rd May 2008, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

I daresay you can start that thread but dare i suggest its a little unrealistic.
much more realistic for YOU not to go within 100 metres of a religious icon or somewhere wearing one.

By all means restrict your own liberties, not others liberties.

Well, as long as I can go anywhere I please just so long as I don't wear any kind of symbol, I guess I'm a happy person.

Shame the whole world isn't like that, imagine it, we could all be happy.

holyland red · 3rd May 2008, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

A weird story?
Well if an Islamist nutter in London objected to a Star of David or Cross in Ireland we would quite properly onsider him to be a nutter and we would find him repulsive.
A Christian nutter (and we have more than a few by the way) would not (quite properly) get away with telling a person that they could not wear a Star of David or crescent.

The fact that you find this story merely weird rather than repulsive (the Israeli government was gracious enough to apologise AND RESTORE THE FREE AND DEMOCRATIC CREDENTIALS OF THEIR NATION.

....stands in stark contrast to your lack of condemnation of an Israeli nutter.

In the peculiar world you inhabit no Israeli is capable of wrong doing. No non Israeli capable of any good. Sad, very very sad.

I don't feel I have to condemn every Israeli nutter, and this story suggest there is at least one of them that I have so far missed. Your choice of thread title suggests you were after more than just suggesting Israelis, and settlers in particular, could have religion-related mental disorders.

I found the story weird for 2 reasons:
1. I'd have expected the "settler" to be handcuffed and dragged away by security personnel.
2. I wasn't exactly sure what you were after, posting this bizzare story. After all, you're not found on here every time a synagogue or a Jewish cemetary in Europe is decorated with swastikas so I was surprised with your recently-growing sensitivity for inter-religion tolerance.

BTW, christians visiting the western wall is a daily occurence, yet apparently it has done very little to "restore Israel's good name".

In contrast, during the 19-year long Jordanian occupation Jews were not allowed to worship there, yet Jordan still maintains its good name. So do the Palestinians who have torched churches since Hamas has taken control of Gaza. Thanks for the warm words though...highly appreciated.

ThatOldRedMagic · 3rd May 2008, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

I daresay you can start that thread but dare i suggest its a little unrealistic.
much more realistic for YOU not to go within 100 metres of a religious icon or somewhere wearing one.

By all means restrict your own liberties, not others liberties.

If only the adherents of religious faith took your advice

Fitzjames · 3rd May 2008, 10:16

Im not sure how the petty despotic kingdom of Jordan maintains a "good name". Ive never been particuarly fond of them ........just one more family fiefdom. Not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia but not exactly as decent as Israel.

As you might expect the desecration of synagogues in Europe is rarely mentioned in the Belfast press. They usually cover more mundane stories like casual burning of Catholic and Protestant churches......in er......Belfast.
I suppose its what is known as news values.
I dont know how often Belfast makes the news in the Haifa Courier or the Tel Aviv Telegraph.

Happily a thing of the past......so nice to see Iraqi government officials visit us last week to see how we manage to get along. Nice to see the Lebanese do it the week before. Nice to see a rabbi as part of the Belfast delegation to one or (possibly) both

God knows who is coming next week...Zimbabweans? sheesh open house . I cant move down town without being swept aside by visiting diganatories from so called divided society delegations.

So a visit to Mid East by four churchmen of different persuasions not exactly a controversial moment I would have thought.

And in a sense the only controversy was that it was a lone nutter.
But I think the point is that the lone nutter was perhaps unwise to launch the diatribe on the day that he did (Holocaust Victims) and Id presume the Righteous Gentiles who stood for them.
I consider the four men to be righteous gentiles. the vast majority Im sure would agree. Dammit Im even a righteous gentile myself.

Incidently as a side bar..........if you check the timelines of my post on the thread you started youll find that I posted a few miserable, inadequate words before midnight. Frankly I thought and still think that your thread desrved more support, however token and inadequate.
The news story on my thread I prepared before but posted AFTER midnight as it was clearly inapproppriate to post it on a day of such magnitude.

Nevertheless......I thought then and think now it was something which had to be said.
I emphasise again that the churchmen AND the Israelis showed a grace and decency lacking in the lone nutter

holyland red · 3rd May 2008, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

Im not sure how the petty despotic kingdom of Jordan maintains a "good name". Ive never been particuarly fond of them ........just one more family fiefdom. Not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia but not exactly as decent as Israel.

As you might expect the desecration of synagogues in Europe is rarely mentioned in the Belfast press. They usually cover more mundane stories like casual burning of Catholic and Protestant churches......in er......Belfast.
I suppose its what is known as news values.
I dont know how often Belfast makes the news in the Haifa Courier or the Tel Aviv Telegraph.

Happily a thing of the past......so nice to see Iraqi government officials visit us last week to see how we manage to get along. Nice to see the Lebanese do it the week before. Nice to see a rabbi as part of the Belfast delegation to one or (possibly) both

God knows who is coming next week...Zimbabweans? sheesh open house . I cant move down town without being swept aside by visiting diganatories from so called divided society delegations.

So a visit to Mid East by four churchmen of different persuasions not exactly a controversial moment I would have thought.

And in a sense the only controversy was that it was a lone nutter.
But I think the point is that the lone nutter was perhaps unwise to launch the diatribe on the day that he did (Holocaust Victims) and Id presume the Righteous Gentiles who stood for them.
I consider the four men to be righteous gentiles. the vast majority Im sure would agree. Dammit Im even a righteous gentile myself.

Incidently as a side bar..........if you check the timelines of my post on the thread you started youll find that I posted a few miserable, inadequate words before midnight. Frankly I thought and still think that your thread desrved more support, however token and inadequate.
The news story on my thread I prepared before but posted AFTER midnight as it was clearly inapproppriate to post it on a day of such magnitude.

Nevertheless......I thought then and think now it was something which had to be said.
I emphasise again that the churchmen AND the Israelis showed a grace and decency lacking in the lone nutter

I didn't think that (non) event is significant enough to warrant a thread in the CE forum, but each to their own I suppose...
Good thing though that Israel's good name is restored.

Fitzjames · 3rd May 2008, 15:22

I think the Moderators are prolly the best judge of whether a thread is worthy.
..........yet you deemed it wothy enough to make comments......which seems a rather eccentric double standard.

holyland red · 3rd May 2008, 17:54

Christians in Israel

Frosty · 3rd May 2008, 18:41

Jews for Jesus

cockneyred · 3rd May 2008, 18:50

god help us

RedKaos · 4th May 2008, 12:23

I think Giggs will start at Wigan.

ooeat0meoo · 4th May 2008, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKaos

I think Giggs will start at Wigan.

He better not be wearing a cross, it's the bench for sure if he dares.

holyland red · 4th May 2008, 14:10

He'll be fine, considering he hasn't delivered a good cross for the last 3 months.

ooeat0meoo · 4th May 2008, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by holyland red

He'll be fine, considering he hasn't delivered a good cross for the last 3 months.

Something to consider.

2nd May 2008, 00:09	#1 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 827	Christians in Israel? "The leaders of the four main churches in Ireland have been refused entry to a holy site in Jerusalem during a visit to the Middle East. It is understood a local Jewish settler objected to the leaders wearing crucifixes when they made an unscheduled stop at the Western Wall. The Israeli government said it was unaware of the visit to the wall. A spokesman said that the four churchmen would be welcomed if they made another visit. Cardinal Brady said they had accepted an apology from the Israeli government. "That place is one of tension and high sensitivities," he said. "In fact, if we have caused some inconvenience to them, we regret it very much. "That is not our intention. We are here on a pastoral visit to promote understanding and peace." " This is of course the work of a lone nutter. And it is good news and very honourable of Israels Government to apolgise, thus restoring Israels good name.

2nd May 2008, 19:13	#5 (permalink)
Plechazunga Phones, soup, paint and chairs are troubling. Join Date: May 2003 Location: My enthusiasm is the same. I love this club. It is not about brochures. Posts: 49,497	It's a strange article. The nutter in question is described as a 'local Jewish settler'.... do they mean he's from a settlement in East Jerusalem? Or do they describe any Jerusalem Jew as a 'settler'... controversial if so, given that there was a sizeable Jewish majority in the city even before the foundation of the State of Israel.

2nd May 2008, 22:46	#8 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 827	A strange article.........but mostly a sad one. If one considers an Irish catholic priest, Hugh O'Flaherty who died in 1963 and was responsible for spiriting many thousands of allied prisoners and Jews during World War 2. He is honoured at Yad Vashem (apologies if I spelt it wrong) as Righteous Among The nations along with such people as Pope John XXIII and several Christians from many denominations, it just seems like an ungrateful act on (ironically) Holocaust Day. No harm done. No fatalaties. Apologies all round. Just sad.

2nd May 2008, 22:57	#9 (permalink)
Redlambs First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Be careful what you reply, unless you want to be drawn with Carragher's cock up your arse... Posts: 6,127	I object to all man-made religious symbols being within 100yards of me. Can I be thread-starting news now?

3rd May 2008, 10:16	#14 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 827	Im not sure how the petty despotic kingdom of Jordan maintains a "good name". Ive never been particuarly fond of them ........just one more family fiefdom. Not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia but not exactly as decent as Israel. As you might expect the desecration of synagogues in Europe is rarely mentioned in the Belfast press. They usually cover more mundane stories like casual burning of Catholic and Protestant churches......in er......Belfast. I suppose its what is known as news values. I dont know how often Belfast makes the news in the Haifa Courier or the Tel Aviv Telegraph. Happily a thing of the past......so nice to see Iraqi government officials visit us last week to see how we manage to get along. Nice to see the Lebanese do it the week before. Nice to see a rabbi as part of the Belfast delegation to one or (possibly) both God knows who is coming next week...Zimbabweans? sheesh open house . I cant move down town without being swept aside by visiting diganatories from so called divided society delegations. So a visit to Mid East by four churchmen of different persuasions not exactly a controversial moment I would have thought. And in a sense the only controversy was that it was a lone nutter. But I think the point is that the lone nutter was perhaps unwise to launch the diatribe on the day that he did (Holocaust Victims) and Id presume the Righteous Gentiles who stood for them. I consider the four men to be righteous gentiles. the vast majority Im sure would agree. Dammit Im even a righteous gentile myself. Incidently as a side bar..........if you check the timelines of my post on the thread you started youll find that I posted a few miserable, inadequate words before midnight. Frankly I thought and still think that your thread desrved more support, however token and inadequate. The news story on my thread I prepared before but posted AFTER midnight as it was clearly inapproppriate to post it on a day of such magnitude. Nevertheless......I thought then and think now it was something which had to be said. I emphasise again that the churchmen AND the Israelis showed a grace and decency lacking in the lone nutter

3rd May 2008, 15:22	#16 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 827	I think the Moderators are prolly the best judge of whether a thread is worthy. ..........yet you deemed it wothy enough to make comments......which seems a rather eccentric double standard.

3rd May 2008, 17:54	#17 (permalink)
holyland red First Team Sub Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 9,010	Christians in Israel

3rd May 2008, 18:41	#18 (permalink)
Frosty Turns women gay Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Plotting to take over the world with my Illuminati brethren Posts: 7,433	Jews for Jesus

3rd May 2008, 18:50	#19 (permalink)
cockneyred Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: sCUNThorpe Posts: 1,424	god help us

4th May 2008, 12:23	#20 (permalink)
RedKaos Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tentacles in my mouthLOL Posts: 2,753	I think Giggs will start at Wigan.

4th May 2008, 14:10	#22 (permalink)
holyland red First Team Sub Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 9,010	He'll be fine, considering he hasn't delivered a good cross for the last 3 months.