Falklands

gambit28

Yup so after they killed thenative people they just drew a line down it and split it.

WeasteDevil

Colonialism at its best!

You murderers Marcos! And all for a bit of gold.

WeasteDevil

I've just thought, as it's the 30th anniversary, around April we're going to get inundated with documentaries on the whole thing aren't we?

Wibble

The history doesn't really give a clear picture of any rights or wrongs. Britain and Spain both agreed to join occupancy before both abandoned the islands while both still claimed ownership.

What happened afterwards doesn't leave anything very clear cut either.

Given that we were moving towards trying to give the Islands back to Argentina (who claim to have inherited them indirectly from Spain) before the Falklands war and the fact that the vast majority of the population are British, of British extraction and almost universally want to remain British leaves us deadlocked yet again. Given the war and the fishing and oil rights I can't see the UK letting them go now. Maybe some revenue share will be enough for Argentina?

gambit28

I have it figured out!!!! We give the protectorate of the people to France! They were the original original before anyone else claimants of sovereignty of the islands!!! That way, the people can still stay there in self governance, no more sovereignty claims, and the oil will stll head to the north! Huzzah!

WeasteDevil

Did Magalhães never bump into them? Or Drake?

gambit28

French were first. they got the east (or west) island, then Britain came along and got all the others. Spain came in and stole the French islands. Then they tried stealing our ones.

WeasteDevil

If that's the case, I'm amazed that all of those ships that went around Cape Horn never came across them.

WeasteDevil

Reading Wikipedia, the French were not the first to know of their existence, but the first to set foot on them.

gambit28

First to have a claim of sovereignty.

WeasteDevil

Ok, give them to the French, they can then be part of the European Union like Saint Pierre and Miquelon. Crazy if you think of it, two little islands off the coast of Canada using the Euro as its currency.

Cristobal

There are 3.400 kelpers living in the islands. Funny, there are more british living in Santa Cruz Province (south of Argentina and one of the less populated one) than in the Malvinas-Falkland Islands.

WeasteDevil

Yeah, burning the Union Flag is seriously going to get you somewhere.

BBC News - Argentines stage Falklands protest outside UK embassy

The US stance on the matter is a joke. Next time they want to use say Diego Garcia, we should tell them to go and fuck themselves.

Frosty

A left-wing protest attended by 100 people? It's like drawing conclusions about the UK from the Socialist Workers Party burning the US flag at a demo outside the US Embassy.

africanspur

Weaste, were you this staunch about the principle of self-determination when it came to the Diego Garcians?

Frosty

They do speak French though. Or at least could. I wouldn't take the chance. Would you?

WeasteDevil

As I was only a child at the time, no! Can't change what has already been done. The USA didn't seem too bothered either.

Frosty

You could of course join the Chagos Islanders' campaign to go home.

That would screw the US more than simply revoking their rights to Diego Garcia. If the Islanders return home, then the US never gets the island back.

Bryan_Munich

Do they?

I don't know much about that but I have been twice myself.

WeasteDevil

I'll write to my MP.

Frosty

Getting involved | The UK Chagos Support Association

There you go.

marcosdeto

mate, it looks worse than it is, but in a city with arround 8 million persons, 100 protesters from the "MTS" (Socialist workers movement) means nothing

the MTS protests for something different every freaking day

Excal

Oh fuck off. We helped you when there actually appeared to be a danger of you losing the bloody islands. Now that there's zero such chance, we're supposed to expend diplomatic capital quashing a demand that will never ever come to fruition?

Team Brian GB

When this came to a head a couple of years ago you had Clinton go down to Buenos Aires saying that the British Government should come to the table - I look forward to the south western United States returning to Mexico and Hawaii going back to the natives.

WeasteDevil

You helped us, in what way? You sat there and watched! A bit like you did for half of the 2nd world war, and then charged us for it.

Team Brian GB

And for the majority of the First World War.

WeasteDevil

That one to be fair really wasn't much of their business.

gambit28

We purchased food from you and the odd missile, we actually purchased more goods and services from the French.

marcosdeto

bitch fight!

yes!

gambit28

Quiet coloniasist (is that how its spelt)

gambit28

We still ended up defending the east coast of the USA through both wars more than they did themselves.

marcosdeto

no, it's colonialist

Team Brian GB

And in the Napoleonic Wars, which they thanked us by invading Canada which was nice of them.

gambit28

Yeah but we did kick their 'asses' so hard for that, it's pretty much vanished from their history text books.

adexkola

gambit28

MOre like this on that occasion

A whole colany revolting over little more than a thousand pounds.

WeasteDevil

So, with all the shit going on in the Persian Gulf where the Royal Navy keep two old frigates, they've decided to send one of the most advanced warships on the planet, a type 45 destroyer, to have a little sail around the Falklands. Funny stuff!

711

The RN has just 19 serious surface ships, repeat 19, and at any one time a fair number of those will be in repair or re-fit.

A type 45, together with the forces on the islands and a submarine, will be enough to deter invasion, but as for controlling the gulf, forget it, we can send a token force only, nothing more.

africanspur

The Americans can effectively act unilaterally in any situation now can they not? They just enlist help from the armed forces of Europe etc to provide an image of international consensus.

711

I think so. Which is not to say that one shouldn't give support if one thinks it's right, but on a purely military level it's neither here nor there.

As for the long-term, I'll pick up on your word 'now'. China's GDP, for one, has been growing way faster than the US, and the percentage of GDP spent on defence counts as the years go by, especially if you get more for the money you spend because costs and salaries are low.

The US will not always be the unique superpower it is today, and they, and the world, will have to start thinking about that.

For all their supposed power, at this minute both the US and the UK are losing a war in Afghanistan. This doesn't please me one bit, but it certainly makes me think. One way or another it has to be dealt with.