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#9 (permalink) |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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Basically what happened was that after the clusterfuck of Ferenc Gyurcsany, Fidesz got a huge majority, (68% of the house).
They are a dickish, powerhungry and heavyhanded bunch and they changed every law, including the constitution in sight. I really dont like them, would never vote for them, but I'm disgusted by the response of the western world. What caused the reactions is that they went against multinational companies and now those are fighting back, punishing Hungary, so noone else gets silly ideas like taxing the Banks, allowing people by law to have a chance to prepay their loans (if they were in foreign currencies. In their economic policies they are kind of a "Occupy" style goverment. It doesnt help that the finance minister is a complete lunatic. As for antidemocratic tendencies: the laws in themselves are not antidemocratic, but in result will make the system practically unchangable for goverments to come. During the constitutional reform they engraved the flat tax rate into the constitution, made a bunch of constitution like laws (that need the two-third of the house to change them). They argued that they (before the elections) said that if they gain the two-thirds of the house, will completely change the Hungary - and people still voted for them. Whats more, they would easily win the majority of the house even today. The colonist behaviour of the west is shocking though, when Hillary Clinton writes a formal letter because the Scientologist and Baptist church (which she a member of) didnt recieve "church" taxstatus in the first round or that on a open tender a left wing radio didnt win a frequency(they had the most points based on content but couldnt pay enough for the lease (they offered about 100000 dollar/year for the frequency while the winner won it with three times as much) - than something very wrong. I hope they will be out of the goverment in 2014, but I hope they will be out without outside influences. |
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Not as crap as eferyone thinks
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corrupting West Brom
Posts: 17,197
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Fuck the Times for closing their online doors, do they not know that all debate happens on the net these days. The headline was something like "EU must act on Hungary's political deficit" |
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#13 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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This is as far as saying that the US ceased to be a democracy after Obama signed the NDAA bill. |
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Phones, soup, paint, chairs and computers are troubling.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
Posts: 47,728
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What's the evidence that it's the multinationals who are responsible for the outside pressure? Not doubting you, I'm just interested. Also, is there anything to stop another party changing the constitution back if they got a big majority? |
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#15 (permalink) | |
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Bitter Arse hole
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Happy those, who can remain at Highbury!
Posts: 25,989
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#16 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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Quote:
There's evidence to this companies formally and informally campaigning in the US and the EU against regulations (particularly the banktax and the mortgage thing). No, if anyone (or a coalition) gets 66.67%*** vote, they can reverse everything. |
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#20 (permalink) |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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Orban has a huge hand in policies but Matolcsy was the one until quite recently who negotiated with the EU, the IMF, end the rest. Now, that Fellegi and Martonyi does much of the negotiating I suspect it will be much easier. Martonyi did teach me back in the day, he's a good and smart man
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#27 (permalink) |
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Baby Cameron loves X-Factor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,051
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How often would you say Cinc that the spectre of the USSR and authoritarianism comes up in Hungarian politics? Is it something that all parties throw at each other on every other policy or is this current circumstance unique?
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#28 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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Here in Hungary Orban and co. are more likely to be compared to Istvan Horthy, the governor between the two world wars. |
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#29 (permalink) |
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Baby Cameron loves X-Factor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,051
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So whilst I am certain there is far more to it than that - some of what I have read goes beyond what I'd consider to be an appropriate balance of powers - but would you say that a large part of the furore is due to the Government moving the country's balance of power away from the grasp of the centre-left and far-left purely for their own ideological reasons as opposed to constitutional or legal fears?
I have very little knowledge of Hungarian affairs at all so I don't like to come to such conclusions but am I right to imagine that the constitutional settlement following the collapse of the USSR was not considered settled and to the benefit of all Hungarian society as aptly as it could be, as opposed to this being an opportunist power grap at the first chance that the government got? |
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#30 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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It wasnt, just as like it isnt now. The problem is that the farright (think BNP) Jobbik will be the winner of this conflict - I suspect they will get 25-30% of the votes next time. |
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#31 (permalink) | |
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Baby Cameron loves X-Factor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,051
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I have looked into this Jobbik party who look like a bunch of nutters, I was verging on giving them the benefit of the doubt of being strongly right wing until I read that they have met with the BNP on occasion and maintain relations. Why do all of these parties do that? It makes it much easier for outside observers to see that they are nutters when they ally themselves with overseas parties. |
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#32 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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#36 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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A public letter made public today at a demonstation by a civil group. While I think they are a little to lenient towards the current goverment (an overcompansation maybe) I agree with the general sentiment.
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#39 (permalink) |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I’m looking for a sacrificial lamb
Posts: 7,542
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BBC News - EU opens legal action against Hungary over new laws
this makes the front page of the BBC website and it is frontpage news around the net. Just a few extra data: since 2004 225 infringement procedures were launched against Hungary. I think there are 17 such active procedures are running. Just in 2010, 176 were launched against Italy, 159 against Belgium, 157 against Greece - yet these current three today were made into huge news. |
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