Foxconn

cinc

What do you think about all this? I'm seriously considering selling my Kindle and Xbox after all that was revealed about the Shenzen factories. I knew conditions were bad before, but my personal responsibility didnt hit me before.

I'd gladly pay 25-50% more if it meant tolerable living and conditions for the workers.

Foxconn issues go mainstream thanks to This American Life and The Daily Show | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence

jveezy

You're going to have to sell a lot more of your stuff if you continue to research where your stuff comes from.

I think the best thing you can do at this point is buy used and refurbished products. Someone probably already died to make your used goods, but at least one death supplies goods for two people instead of two deaths for two people (obviously those numbers are an exaggeration).

adexkola

According to a report from Bloomberg, Foxconn improved worker conditions ever since the case of those suicides at their hostels.

Sir Matt

Isn't it wonderful? They can save money by employing people for pennies an hour with insanely long hours while still overcharging the hell out of you. I've got several Apple products and a Kindle. The cheapest was $100 while the most expensive was $1700. I can't imagine the companies paid more than 2% of the msrp to those who built it.

Of course, Apple will just use it as another reason to jack up prices even more so they have ethically made products. All Hail Steve Jobs and his successors!

One thing students at my university did was publicize the fact that the clothing bearing Duke trademarks(which is a lot of stuff) was or may be made in unethical conditions. Since then, it became one of the first schools to adopt rules requiring all clothing be made "ethically." Several other universities have refused student requests and handled protests poorly.

adexkola

Ohio State students have protests all the time against Coke (an official sponsor of the school) because of it's factories in Central America, using sweatshop labor, pollution, and other unethical acticities. Sadly such things are the norm, and there is no framework in place that rewards companies that deal ethically everywhere.

jveezy

To be fair, Foxconn probably isn't even the worst one out there. It's just the most visible because of its direct ties to Apple and other big name tech companies. The rare minerals required for these devices are in African war zones where Foxconn's treatment of its workers pales in comparison to the rapes and murders that go on there.

Sir Matt

We should make a documentary about the production of a laptop, iPod, or something from raw materials to shelves. The Caf's first ever documentary.

mjs020294

Its the responsibility of the government in the country where the factories are located to ensure workers safety, working conditions and minimum pay.

w'or bobby

Yep, only them, not me.
Never me.

Anyway, I'm anti-government.
So the the government I am against should regulate!

Is that how the libertarian far-right would have it?

Sir Matt

If they fail to do so, companies should not be using those factories. If they companies insist upon it, it comes down to consumers to refuse to buy, invest in said companies, or attack their image in order to persuade them to change their ways.

It would be nice if there were standards required by the US government for products imported into the US aside from supposed safety standards, but it won't happen. Walmart would lose boatloads of money because they couldn't get cheap, sweat-shop made goods. It would also irritate China because it would limit their exports. Prices would go up on goods making consumers upset.

The same goes for other nations and the EU.

mjs020294

Hiking prices with the intent of paying foreign labor more would also be a significant transfer of wealth. Basically China's main asset is cheap labor. You start messing with that and it will have major implications all round.

w'or bobby

Mebbe about time they got upset, then, no?

w'or bobby

Major is the word.

Mess with it.

cinc

Yes, but it's also the responsibility of the customers.

cinc

I already do watch out for manufacturers. I mostly try to support local/European companies at least. But its damn hard with clothes (I switch to mostly Timberland) and electronic goods.

Justin

Yeah, they placed a safety net so when they jumped it wouldn't make a mess. That's smart management!

sglowrider

Which is worse -- working in a West Virginian coal mine or in a Foxconn factory. I know which I would chose.

cinc

The Foxconn factory is far worse.

sglowrider

You sure?



versus

cinc

"Nine out of 10 Appalachian men do not receive college degrees; some don't even finish high school. The average starting salary for a coal mine worker is $60,000. "

While the workers at Foxconn earn $3500 a year, sometimes working in 14-16 or even 34 hours shifts, when there are no breaks whatsoever, you have to stand and you cannot talk. A fifth of the workforce is under 14, the workers have to live in 8-16 bed dorm rooms (not for free for) and they have to work with dangerous chemicals.

So which one would you choose, mate?

utdalltheway

you ever been to the Appalachian area? scary isn't the word!


seriously, the only way the conditions will improve quickly is if the local govments work to fix them. shaming the US manufacturers will only do so much. some other non US company will jump to the head of the queue to exploit the workers.

cinc

I shame every company that work with Foxconn and similar companies.

decorativeed

Are there any major manufacturers of electronic goods that exclusively produce their products in the EU or USA?

utdalltheway

I thought Vizio made their stuff in the US, but maybe it's just final assembly.

WeasteDevil

Fixed it for you.

WeasteDevil

...

iSparky

She looks reasonably happy in this picture, I see no problem here

utdalltheway

oh well, I suppose it'd cause a major increase in cost if they were made exclusively in the US.

cinc

25-30%.

decorativeed

How's that fixed? It's not what I was asking and it's not the answer either.

Commadus

Shallow thinking. China is also buying foreign goods -the rise of their middle class.

Team Brian GB

sglowrider

I have my hardware made in China -- prices have gone up over the years. China is losing their low cost base edge too. Victim of their own success. Vietnam, Sri Lanka etc have started to steal China's businesses.

At the end of the day, these workers moved to eastern seaboard to find work, coming from the western parts or less developed parts of China. Migrant workers. No different to the mexican workers who pick the fruits or do the gardening, No one put a gun to their heads. They are making relatively decent money otherwise they would go there.

Not saying that conditions cannot be improved but there are much worse jobs out there.

mjs020294

NPR had an interesting piece on the Chinese middle class and wealthy yesterday. Over 60% of Chinese millionaires have either let the country or have plans to leave. Take the money and run, and most of them have prospered off the backs of their fellow countrymen and with full backing of their government.

AND we are the ones that are supposed to be concerned about working conditions over there.

sglowrider

I do some work up in China.. if you are me, they are getting way too parochial and looking inwards.. similar to what they were like centuries ago... which lead to their demise.

There is a lot of unofficial outflow of $$ into countries like Singapore where they buy multiple $25million homes but only declare annual incomes of $100k on a 90% cash downpayment and 10% loan ... much to the amazement of their local private bankers!

Anyway, China is an economy within an economy with the western side still very much poor and under-developed. This is where the factories in the east are moving to thus the Three Gorges Dam built to power up that side of China.

WeasteDevil

Because it was a daft question! The only electronic goods made exclusively in what you would call the developed countries are high end.

cinc

yes, as they wont be. The US is very proactive regarding Human Rights when a, the violations dont make profits to US companies, b, the human rights violation is not committed by the US.

Child labor is only favourable if you're Newt Gingrich.

decorativeed

Why is it a daft question? You still haven't actually answered it either.

cinc

He's playing Weaste - you left out the Japanese, Taiwanese and Korean manifacturers. The answer is no, apart from CPUs, no hardware is solely made in developed countries. And even if they are, the materials they are built from are most likely from Africa/Asia.

decorativeed

I didn't leave them out by accident - I specifically didn't want to know that. I was wondering whether there were any large electronics manufacturers who produced their goods in the EU and USA.