Immigration in the UK. Enoch Powell 40 years on............

spinoza · 25th April 2008, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

sorry Spinoza - you appear to be saying they cannot discuss the subject rationally or anyway as they are too stupid. I suppose dismissing 30 million or so voters like that is OK - if you say so

but it doesn't do the cause of immigrants a lot of good

I'm saying that it's a complex issue with lots of nuances that need to be taken into account, and it's not something anyone can form a coherent opinion about by reading the newspaper and looking outside their window.

Am I right while 30m other people are wrong? Possibly, it's happened before. I don't see why it harms the cause of immigrants, unless as I said, people look at me and assume I have no right to comment when I actually have every right.

Redlambs · 25th April 2008, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinoza

I do think that I have a better grasp of the issues surrounding immigration that the majority of people in the UK with their silly opinions. Does this make me better than them? No, I just know more.

That just makes you truly ignorant, like some of those "silly people".

Redlambs · 25th April 2008, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

The street I live on, M16 Stretford, Manchester -

Next door to my right is an Irish family.
To my left is a white Manc lass married to a Bangladeshi with a mixed race kid.
Next door but one are an Indian family, next to them on that side are a family of Carribbean decent.
Opposite are two families of Pakistani muslims
Rest of my neighbours are white, Manc, many elderly.

The kids play in the street together, people have keys for each others houses when they go away, the retired residents put everyone's bins back after the binmen have come... and in over 2 years here I've never seen the police called.

The local services would collapse without immigrants - many local shops wouldn't exist, the Doctor's down the road would be overrun. And if you fancied a late night take away you'd be fucked.

Perhaps M16 is a multi-cultural crime-free utopia, an oasis in the rivers of blood, escalating crime and political correctness gone mad. Or perhaps things aren't quite so bad as the media make out, eh?

Why does it always come down to that old chestnut?

topper · 25th April 2008, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinoza

I'm saying that it's a complex issue with lots of nuances that need to be taken into account, and it's not something anyone can form a coherent opinion about by reading the newspaper and looking outside their window.

Am I right while 30m other people are wrong? Possibly, it's happened before. I don't see why it harms the cause of immigrants, unless as I said, people look at me and assume I have no right to comment when I actually have every right.

iguanamanc · 25th April 2008, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinoza

I've alluded to this before in other threads. I think (half-jokingly) that I deserve to work and live anywhere without first having to seek permission, since I'd undoubtedly be contributing more than I'm taking. It's partly born of the frustration from having a passport that basically disqualifies me from visiting certain countries, and effectively being barred from others.

I do think that I have a better grasp of the issues surrounding immigration that the majority of people in the UK with their silly opinions. Does this make me better than them? No, I just know more.

Perhaps one of those silly opinions is that you ought to feel privileged to be able to work and live here.

You feel that it is a privilege for the UK to have you. The UK government apparently does not wholeheartedly agree.

Redlambs · 25th April 2008, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinoza

I'm saying that it's a complex issue with lots of nuances that need to be taken into account, and it's not something anyone can form a coherent opinion about by reading the newspaper and looking outside their window.

So, if we put aside what I actually know about immigration, are you saying that as an average Joe, my opinions shouldn't be formed around the life I'm living?

Hmmm, that's an interesting theory there.

iguanamanc · 25th April 2008, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinoza

We can't, because people don't understand it.

And thats how it was in the 1960s and why Powell decided to make it an issue.

Spoonez el Grande · 25th April 2008, 17:21

Send them all back home.

But Spin's right, the majority are ignorant.

Redlambs · 25th April 2008, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonez el Grande

Send them all back home.

But Spin's right, the majority are ignorant.

Thanks for that.

Spoonez el Grande · 25th April 2008, 17:24

In fact I reckon the majority are canon fodder. And eventually we'll have to start culling them.

Redlambs · 25th April 2008, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonez el Grande

In fact I reckon the majority are canon fodder. And eventually we'll have to start culling them.

Or we could clean out Liverpool and put them all there? That way we'll have a team the whole country can hate!

ralphie88 · 25th April 2008, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinoza

I bet you've got a City fan in there somewhere.

Nope. One Bolton. Everyone else United. In fact in the whole of Mancs I only actually know one City fan (and he's stopped going cos the atmosphere's shit).

ralphie88 · 25th April 2008, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

Why does it always come down to that old chestnut?

Well unfortunately Lambs, the tabloid press know that "Mohammed ate my hamster" and "Councils ban Christmas" stories sell papers. They don't give a shite if they're printing lies or exaggeration, or stirring up racial hatred, they're only interested in circulation.

Fitzjames · 25th April 2008, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

The street I live on, M16 Stretford, Manchester -

Next door to my right is an Irish family.
To my left is a white Manc lass married to a Bangladeshi with a mixed race kid.
Next door but one are an Indian family, next to them on that side are a family of Carribbean decent.
Opposite are two families of Pakistani muslims
Rest of my neighbours are white, Manc, many elderly.

The kids play in the street together, people have keys for each others houses when they go away, the retired residents put everyone's bins back after the binmen have come... and in over 2 years here I've never seen the police called.

The local services would collapse without immigrants - many local shops wouldn't exist, the Doctor's down the road would be overrun. And if you fancied a late night take away you'd be fucked.

Perhaps M16 is a multi-cultural crime-free utopia, an oasis in the rivers of blood, escalating crime and political correctness gone mad. Or perhaps things aren't quite so bad as the media make out, eh?

Well said sir. Well said.

Spoonez el Grande · 25th April 2008, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Well unfortunately Lambs, the tabloid press know that "Mohammed ate my hamster" and "Councils ban Christmas" stories sell papers. They don't give a shite if they're printing lies or exaggeration, or stirring up racial hatred, they're only interested in circulation.

Depends on the paper. Clearly they all have an agenda. And people on here post what suits there's.

iguanamanc · 25th April 2008, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Well unfortunately Lambs, the tabloid press know that "Mohammed ate my hamster" and "Councils ban Christmas" stories sell papers. They don't give a shite if they're printing lies or exaggeration, or stirring up racial hatred, they're only interested in circulation.

I cling to the hope that most of us really aren't that gullible.

iguanamanc · 25th April 2008, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonez el Grande

Depends on the paper. Clearly they all have an agenda. And people on here post what suits there's.

And some of us are just one cigar short of a humidor.

Fitzjames · 25th April 2008, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by iguanamanc

I cling to the hope that most of us really aren't that gullible.

I hate the word "gullible". It is not actually in any English dictionary.

iguanamanc · 25th April 2008, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

I hate the word "gullible". It is not actually in any English dictionary.

I hate to be pedantic, but

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O999-gullible.html

Spoonez el Grande · 25th April 2008, 19:08

Ha, you're gullible.

topper · 25th April 2008, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by iguanamanc

And some of us are just one cigar short of a humidor.

according to Spinoza most of us

Fitzjames · 25th April 2008, 22:44

Message 136 from IguanaManc
I cling to the hope that most of us really aren't that gullible

Message 138 from Fitzjames
I hate the word "gullible". It is not actually in any English dictionary

Message 139 from IguanaManc
A link to prove the word “gullible” exists.

What can I say? You walked right into it

I think we have proven that contrary to your message 136.…..some “of us” are EXTREMELY GULLIBLE

Redlambs · 25th April 2008, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Well unfortunately Lambs, the tabloid press know that "Mohammed ate my hamster" and "Councils ban Christmas" stories sell papers. They don't give a shite if they're printing lies or exaggeration, or stirring up racial hatred, they're only interested in circulation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonez el Grande

Depends on the paper. Clearly they all have an agenda. And people on here post what suits there's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iguanamanc

I cling to the hope that most of us really aren't that gullible.

Unfortunately though, it's also used as an argument.

I'm not following any papers, I live my life. That's why I have an opinion on the situation, because it directly involves me. When we debate in this thread and when you reply to my points, you have to take me at face value and not something you assume to be true.

iguanamanc · 26th April 2008, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

Message 136 from IguanaManc
I cling to the hope that most of us really aren't that gullible

Message 138 from Fitzjames
I hate the word "gullible". It is not actually in any English dictionary

Message 139 from IguanaManc
A link to prove the word “gullible” exists.

What can I say? You walked right into it

I think we have proven that contrary to your message 136.…..some “of us” are EXTREMELY GULLIBLE

Smartarse

iguanamanc · 26th April 2008, 10:37

From today's Telegraph. I don't know what a combination of Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud and Enoch Powell would have construed from this story.........

.................................................. .....................................

The red, the black and the grey squirrels

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 26/04/2008

The red: native under threat on two fronts

The red squirrel has been native to Britain for 10,000 years but now there are only 120,000 left.

Solitary animals until it comes to breeding, they have been squeezed out by grey squirrels, who eat a more varied diet.

Red squirrels are known to select their food carefully - eating only matured nuts, pine cones, small seeds and fungi - and prefer to live in conifer and Scot's Pine forests.

They suffered badly from the squirrelpox virus and have no immunity to the disease, which is carried by greys, and can die within weeks.

Red squirrels are considered a protected native species and refuges have been set up in Cumbria, the North West and Scotland.

The black: an aggressive takeover

With its more aggressive personality, the black squirrel is becoming increasingly dominant among squirrel numbers in Britain.

First spotted in 1912, there are now an estimated 25,000 centred around the east of England.

A genetic mutation of the grey, it is missing part of the usual DNA sequence that explains its jet black colour.

The black squirrel has a much more varied diet than both the grey and the red.

Its superior physical attributes mean it is starting to overtake the grey.

In Girton, Cambs, black squirrels account for 75 per cent of the squirrel population.

The grey invader whose time may be up

The grey squirrel, native to eastern and mid-west America and southern Canada, was first recorded in Britain in the 1820s and formally introduced in 1876 when a pair was released in Cheshire.

A second pair was released at Loch Long in 1892 and, within 25 years, grey squirrels had spread to the eastern side of Loch Lomond and into Stirlingshire.

There are now more than two million grey squirrels across the country and they have virtually wiped out the native red but for the first time it looks like their dominance on British soil may be challenged.

topper · 26th April 2008, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by iguanamanc

From today's Telegraph. I don't know what a combination of Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud and Enoch Powell would have construed from this story.........

.................................................. .....................................

The red, the black and the grey squirrels

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 26/04/2008

The red: native under threat on two fronts

The red squirrel has been native to Britain for 10,000 years but now there are only 120,000 left.

Solitary animals until it comes to breeding, they have been squeezed out by grey squirrels, who eat a more varied diet.

Red squirrels are known to select their food carefully - eating only matured nuts, pine cones, small seeds and fungi - and prefer to live in conifer and Scot's Pine forests.

They suffered badly from the squirrelpox virus and have no immunity to the disease, which is carried by greys, and can die within weeks.

Red squirrels are considered a protected native species and refuges have been set up in Cumbria, the North West and Scotland.

The black: an aggressive takeover

With its more aggressive personality, the black squirrel is becoming increasingly dominant among squirrel numbers in Britain.

First spotted in 1912, there are now an estimated 25,000 centred around the east of England.

A genetic mutation of the grey, it is missing part of the usual DNA sequence that explains its jet black colour.

The black squirrel has a much more varied diet than both the grey and the red.

Its superior physical attributes mean it is starting to overtake the grey.

In Girton, Cambs, black squirrels account for 75 per cent of the squirrel population.

The grey invader whose time may be up

The grey squirrel, native to eastern and mid-west America and southern Canada, was first recorded in Britain in the 1820s and formally introduced in 1876 when a pair was released in Cheshire.

A second pair was released at Loch Long in 1892 and, within 25 years, grey squirrels had spread to the eastern side of Loch Lomond and into Stirlingshire.

There are now more than two million grey squirrels across the country and they have virtually wiped out the native red but for the first time it looks like their dominance on British soil may be challenged.

Once upon a time........

25th April 2008, 17:21	#128 (permalink)
Spoonez el Grande El Presidente - Voted best poster 2007 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Number 17. (Laura's got a cellulite arse). RIP Jermaine Stewart. Posts: 23,986	Send them all back home. But Spin's right, the majority are ignorant.

25th April 2008, 17:24	#130 (permalink)
Spoonez el Grande El Presidente - Voted best poster 2007 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Number 17. (Laura's got a cellulite arse). RIP Jermaine Stewart. Posts: 23,986	In fact I reckon the majority are canon fodder. And eventually we'll have to start culling them.

25th April 2008, 19:08	#140 (permalink)
Spoonez el Grande El Presidente - Voted best poster 2007 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Number 17. (Laura's got a cellulite arse). RIP Jermaine Stewart. Posts: 23,986	Ha, you're gullible.

25th April 2008, 22:44	#142 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 730	Message 136 from IguanaManc I cling to the hope that most of us really aren't that gullible Message 138 from Fitzjames I hate the word "gullible". It is not actually in any English dictionary Message 139 from IguanaManc A link to prove the word “gullible” exists. What can I say? You walked right into it I think we have proven that contrary to your message 136.…..some “of us” are EXTREMELY GULLIBLE

26th April 2008, 10:37	#145 (permalink)
iguanamanc Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: exiled in Worcester Posts: 1,669	From today's Telegraph. I don't know what a combination of Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud and Enoch Powell would have construed from this story......... .................................................. ..................................... The red, the black and the grey squirrels Last Updated: 12:01am BST 26/04/2008 The red: native under threat on two fronts The red squirrel has been native to Britain for 10,000 years but now there are only 120,000 left. Solitary animals until it comes to breeding, they have been squeezed out by grey squirrels, who eat a more varied diet. Red squirrels are known to select their food carefully - eating only matured nuts, pine cones, small seeds and fungi - and prefer to live in conifer and Scot's Pine forests. They suffered badly from the squirrelpox virus and have no immunity to the disease, which is carried by greys, and can die within weeks. Red squirrels are considered a protected native species and refuges have been set up in Cumbria, the North West and Scotland. The black: an aggressive takeover With its more aggressive personality, the black squirrel is becoming increasingly dominant among squirrel numbers in Britain. First spotted in 1912, there are now an estimated 25,000 centred around the east of England. A genetic mutation of the grey, it is missing part of the usual DNA sequence that explains its jet black colour. The black squirrel has a much more varied diet than both the grey and the red. Its superior physical attributes mean it is starting to overtake the grey. In Girton, Cambs, black squirrels account for 75 per cent of the squirrel population. The grey invader whose time may be up The grey squirrel, native to eastern and mid-west America and southern Canada, was first recorded in Britain in the 1820s and formally introduced in 1876 when a pair was released in Cheshire. A second pair was released at Loch Long in 1892 and, within 25 years, grey squirrels had spread to the eastern side of Loch Lomond and into Stirlingshire. There are now more than two million grey squirrels across the country and they have virtually wiped out the native red but for the first time it looks like their dominance on British soil may be challenged.

27th April 2008, 20:21	#147 (permalink)
KingDingle22 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Banbury Posts: 1,088