iran to build 10 new enrichment sites...

Sultan

I don't condone Al Qaeda or Talibans methods or for that matter the USA's strategy. USA should have closed this chapter many moons ago with very few casualties.

Raoul

Good. Then i gather you support Obama's plan to once and for all close the chapter by 2011.

Sultan

I very much hope so, for the sake of Afghanistan.

Can I get back to the United forum?

Raoul

Please do. There's a raging debate about Mourinho replacing SAF in there.

Sultan

Recognised enough for them to have a delegation in America and meetings in Afghanistan with various government officials.

Sultan

Mourinho is a great character. I however think his teams do not play to United's traditional style. I also happen to think he'd not be very good for our academy...

RedKaos

See a trend there? These are mostly western nations some of which have already had extensive experience with democracy (I'll try not to mention Adolf). Who's to say that these eastern nations would successfully adapt to democracy so immediately, just look at Russia for example.

Raoul

There were a variety of conflicting liberal Democratic ideologies, but primarily anything but real Democracy. Italy and Germany were under Fascist rule beginning in the 20s and 30s respectively, the former had a Monarch. In Russia, Democracy wasn't imposed unless you consider Reagan's hard line policies as having precipitated the fall of Communism.

The idea that a nation has to be Western in order to experience Democracy is patently fallacious. The right of citizens to elect their own Government and live via a respectable modicum of self-determination is universal. After organized religion and authoritarianism are marginalized by the increased availability of information, Democracy will fill the void.

dRNk SAnTA

ok back on topic.

Under article IV of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which Iran signed, every state has the right to peacefully use nuclear technology.

Just saying "no because they don't like Israel" is ridiculous. Israel hold a nuclear arsenal which it hasn't declared, refuses to sign the NPT, and everybody knows about their total disregard of Palestinian sovereignty.

Raoul

There's a gaping difference between no liking it and wanting to wipe it off the map; its the latter that concerns the World should the Iranians acquire nukes.

VidaRed

they dont want to wipe it off the map...its politics. It was said to win over the votes some years ago.

VidaRed

All you predictions have gone down the gutter Raoul. Surely something must be wrong in your thinking process ?

Nistelrooy10

wasn't it mistranslated also?

VidaRed

i think so.

Only an idiot would want to nuke a country that has nukes itself. Now if Israel didn't have nukes then that lame excuse could be used.

Raoul

My thinking process is fine and the things i predicted on Iraq's long term prognosis are well on their way to being realized.

Now as for you - I've told you before, if you're going to come into these threads you need to start contributing something intelligible to them. If you can't then stay out of them.

Raoul

Wanting to eliminate "The Zionist Entity" has been a long time goal of the Iranian regime. Starting with Khomeini all the way through to Khamenei.

Raoul

It was made by Khomeini and amplified as sound policy by Ahmadinejad.

VidaRed

VidaRed

They must be really shit then because they haven't done anything themselves. And the Khomeini regime isn't favoured by iranians...surely you didn't miss the protests.

I bet you think that they'll launch a nuke against Israel the very second they make it.

Raoul

Are you that thick ? In case you haven't noticed, all decisions come from Khamenei to Ahmadinejad. The protesters don't get a say in the matter.

VidaRed

Read my post again.

Khamenei is out of public support because of his recent antics and thats why he's alienating iran to get more support.

Raoul

i have no idea that this means. Are you trying to say he is deliberatly alienating Iran before the International community in order to generate nationalistic support from within to cover up his transgressions during the election crisis ?

VidaRed

Thats because you're the one who's thick

Raoul

VidaRed

...

dRNk SAnTA

Hmm, that would make Iran's 2003 offer to recognise the state of Israel a ridiculous oversight on their part.

Bush literally ignored the offer and reprimanded the Swiss diplomat (Tim Guldimann) who sent it to them.

In 2003, U.S. Spurned Iran's Offer of Dialogue - washingtonpost.com

dinners85

Enjoyed reading this folks

Raoul

Interesting article. Given that there hasn't been much in the way of direct diplomatic contact since the Revolution, the Iranian regime could have just as well contacted Israel through a third party intermediary and offer the same. Their contacting the US directly (allegedly) seems like the bit about Israel was merely a bargaining chip. There's no way a Velayat al-Fakih led Khomeinite government would ever accept the legitimacy of Israel. It basically contradicts everything Khomeini ever said about the "Zionist Entity". In the end, the Bush administration's disdain for Iran ended up being fully warranted as they were funding and equiping IRGC Quds Force as well as Iraqi Shi'a militias with EFPs and other munitions during the peak of the sectarian violence in Iraq, which ultimately killed loads of Iraqis, Americans, Brits and other coalition members.

dRNk SAnTA

Of course recognising the state of Israel was a bargaining chip! This is how the world works. In 2003, after seeing how quickly Iraq fell to invading forces the Iranians were shit scared and were willing to make an unprecedented deal.

They offered a commitment to stop nuclear enrichment research (which is their right under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty), allow inspections, recognise Israel, and end support for terror groups.

In return for a promise of security, an end to embargoes and sharing of technology.

This is real head-in-the-sand stuff. Why should anything better be expected from a country that has been treated the way it has by the United States and the EU (in 2004)?

And just on a quick point: you mentioned the mistranslated quote about the destruction of Israel as a stick to beat Iran with, while the US breaks international law every time officials and politicians talk about the potential invasion of Iran. (Article 2 Chapter 4 of the UN Charter if you are wondering).

Not the the United States pays much attention to the UN or any other international treaty they've signed which doesn't suit their immediate goals.

Raoul

So claims an enterprising journalist at the Washington Post. Let's assume its true for the sake of argument, it simply wouldn't have been realistic to presume the Bush administration would have abruptly done a 180 on a quarter century of policy that focused on isolating the regime following what happened during the Revolution, Khomeini's great Satan remarks and consistent invective against the US, the Hostage crisis, followed by decades of isolation - culminating with a Fax alleging the regime is willing to throw away its core foreign policy beliefs in favor recognizing Israel. Even if it were a bargaining chip, the mere fact that such bargaining points completely violate everything Khomeini preached leads me to believe they would have never followed through with them.

The West has taken the right position with Iran regarding its development of nukes. Even Russia, who have traditionally sided with Iran on these types of issues, have no lost patience with them. The international coalition is growing in that regard.


The quote was made by Khomeini and was recalled by Ahmadinejad at his famous anti-Zionism conference. Whichever way you slice it, the essence of what Khomeini said is consistent with the destruction of Israel.

This is an inherent flaw in the power dynamics of the UN. The countries comprising the security council always have more leverage. Its an imperfect system.

RufRT

This is really odd...Iran really should have listened to Obama by now...

VidaRed

Iran aid to Taliban is small, insigificant - U.S.

* Iran aid to Taliban still insignificant
* Iran wants to hurt West, target Western forces

WASHINGTON, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Iran wants to inflict "pain" on Western forces in Afghanistan but its support for the Taliban has so far been small and insignificant, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Wednesday.

"We do have evidence of Iranian involvement, particularly in the western part of Afghanistan," Gates told lawmakers at a hearing. "It is still a relatively small -- making a relatively small and not significant contribution to the Taliban effort."

mjs020294

Even a small contribution could result in the loss of life.

EZee

yes they had a whole dossier on iraqs wmd as well didnt they...

RedKaos

Exactly, the US's 'small contribution' itself cost 100,000 Iraqi civillian lives.

Raoul

A poor attempt.

A vast majority of Iraqi deaths were self-inflicted by ex-Baathists, Al-Qaeda, or Iranian backed Shi'a militias, all of which of course pale by comparison to the amount of deaths Saddam presided over during his reign.

RedKaos

The US catalysted the tensions though, doesnt take a genius to figure that one out - before the war there wasnt as much death and destruction within a 6 year period.

Raoul

The tensions existed well before the invasion as a result of Saddam's need to play certain groups off of one another in order to consolidate his power.