Israel celebrates 60 years of independence

Nistelrooy10

man, that's wrong in so many ways I don't even know where to start..

Nistelrooy10

What other view is there though? There are just a bunch of suppositions, nothing else. You have to take his view.

holyland red

They were fuckwits, there's no question about that. As a normal people we have a right to our fair share. Good thing you acknowledge the historic bond between our people and our homeland, because others deny that.

There is also no question of Bosnian muslim's fondness of eagles...didn't expect anything else from you, to be honest. Like father like son.

Nistelrooy10

you are hilarious

holyland red

Again?

I thought you lot were going to Chechnya, Tibet and Sudan first before coming back here. Any reason why you avoid those places yet feel safe enough expressing your moral values in the hell hole that Israel is?

Team Brian GB

Though you are obviously very anti-Israel in your sentiments so it is very hard to take your views seriously, whilst I take a neutral stance supporting neither side- as you'll see I have both defended and admonished Israel in this thread.

Nistelrooy10

You're not supposed to take a neutral stance, and dish out equal amount of criticism at both sides. You're supposed to support what you believe is right.

What is there not to take seriously? You sound like I'm going around making things up. I have my reasons for not celebrating Masada, and that's that...I don't think they're heroes, and I don't think they should be celebrated.

I'm not going to go against my belief for the sake of neutrality and appearing good an an internet forum.

Team Brian GB

I'm not talking about Masada but Israel in general, and I'm not saying you are making things up but as you are so anti-Israel that taints whatever you might say.

I am neutral in this saga in that I neither favour the Israeli or Palestinian opinion over the other and will be critical or supportive when they are deserving of such. Opinion over the last sixty years has been polarised on the World stage and look where that has got us- the middle east became an extension of the cold war in that Israel was significantly backed by the United States whilst Egypt recieved the same support but from the Soviet Union which meant any war in the region could have led to WWIII- which Kozygin threatened the US with just before the six days war. This will only have a chance however slim of being sorted out if no preference on the world stage is given.

holyland red

British PM: Israel`s creation one of the 20th century`s `greatest achievements`

By DPA and Haaretz Service

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown on Monday congratulated Israel on its 60th anniversary of independence, calling the state's creation of of the "greatest achievements" of the 20th Century.

During an event marking the anniversary at a London synagogue, the British leader said that Israel has faced "immense threats" since its creation and called for a future where the "children of Abraham" would live together in peace as part of the same extended family.

He also said that the British government was ready to support the Middle East peace process by contributing funds to aid Palestinian infrastructure.

The European Union on Thursday also congratulated Israel on the 60th anniversary, with officials vowing to forge even closer ties with the Middle Eastern state.

The head of the bloc's executive, European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, said Israel's significance for Europeans went "beyond normal forms of cooperation with a close neighbour."

"Both the European Union and the state of Israel were born out of the same great convulsion of the Second World War and the Shoah," Barroso said in a message.

"In its 60 years as an independent state, Israel has had to contend with many challenges. Yet through it all it has continued to adapt, develop and prosper.

"We now take almost for granted impressive Israeli achievements in fields such as science and technology, industry, agriculture, education and the arts. In retrospect, we can only wonder at how all this was achieved under such difficult circumstances," Barroso added.

The commission chief noted that the EU and Israel were already cooperating on a range of issues such as climate change, counter-terrorism "and the fight against racism and anti-Semitism".

The EU is Israel's main trading partner and Israel is the only non-European country to participate in the EU's Research and Development programme, noted External Affairs Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner.

"Hundreds of project proposals by Israeli researchers have received EU funding, for example developing innovative cancer diagnostic techniques, hydrogen cars, machine translation techniques. Also, Israeli students are benefiting from scholarships under the EU's Erasmus Mundus exchange programme," Ferrero-Waldner told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.

And Israel is now close to being granted "special status" within the EU's neighbourhood policy, officials in Brussels said.

Such a special status might include deals in the area of air transport, higher education, trade in agricultural products and services, social security, customs, information society, environment as well as consumer protection.

"The EU and Israel are closer now than they were ever before," the
commissioner said.

Other European dignitaries on Thursday also sent their well wishes to Israeli President Shimon Peres.

Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom wrote to Peres "It gives me particular pleasure to send Your Excellency my congratulations on the celebration of your National Day, on the sixtieth anniversary of your Independence. I extend my best wishes for the happiness and prosperity of the Government and people of Israel in the coming year."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy wrote: "As you know, France has always been committed to Israel's security and to the quest for a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East, to which the peoples of the region aspire. As in the past, France will continue to stand by you and to work together with you toward this goal, in order to end the suffering of the Israelis and the Palestinians, which has been going on far too long."

Sarkozy explained that Peres' last visit to Paris was an important one even in the development of the relations between the two states, and voiced hope that this close relationship will deepen when he comes to visit Israel in June.

Italian President Giorgio Napolitano also sent his congratulations, as did Irish President Mary McAleese, Austrian President Heinz Fischer and many more.

In contrast, Nistelrooy10, Van Nistelrator, Sultan and Mahmoud Ahmedinejad were pissed off at the celebrations and refused to congratulate Israel.

Plechazunga

'Ash' is Ahkenazis, I'm guessing... where are the Sephardis?

But yes, the two groups are very closely related. It's only been 80 generations or so of diaspora, though, so a high degree of homogeneity might still accomodate a certain amount of gentile-boning. You only need to look at all those Ashkenazis with red hair, others like me who look more Mediterranean but not as much as Sephardis, to see that there are other genes in the mix.

Mihajlovic

Reliability is the problem with most ancient authors. I wouldn’t class Josephus account of ben Yair’s heroic speech as anti-Jewish propaganda though.

spinoza

Wouldn't it be more precise to say that the study shows that Jewish men didn't get very much gentile action?

EDIT - except for Ethiopian jews, who clearly boned away mightily

holyland red

Those filled triangles represent Ashkenazi (Ash), Near East (Nea), North African (Naf), Kurdish (Kur), Yememnite (Yem), Ethiopian (Eth) and Roman (Rom) Jewish populations.

Obviously, many of our ancestors fancied the odd European chick, but the results of the study put to bed all those theories about European Jewery originating in mass conversions of Europeans to Judaism.

spinoza

Well... what you're saying is that your male ancestors either used contraception or couldn't get any European action, but your female ancestors clearly could and probably did, resulting in daughters who didn't have y chromosomes to pass on...

holyland red

These results refer to the non-recombining portion of the Y chromosome, thus assessing the contribution of non-Jewish males to current Jewsih genetic diversity (according to Jewish law, religiuos affiliation is assigned maternally).

holyland red

They even out-Ethioped the Ethiopians

spinoza

Well, when I read the study I was thinking of my wife's three lady cousins, who are Jewish by religious law, but will presumably pass on slanty eyes, yellow skin and straight black hair to their kids along with their Jewishness, but not their dad's y chromosome.

holyland red

Too bad I only joined the caf in 2001, a few months after getting married... I'm all for introducing new genes to the mix, even more so now

Plechazunga

I see. So there's no Arab clusters on the diagram? And what about the Spanish and Portuguese Sephardim?

I think the Falashas are a completely different ethnic stock, and that's why they're so far away in genetic space, not cos of boning.

Text message for you btw Spin

holyland red

You can see the filled rectangles for the Arabs- Palestinians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Lebanese and Israeli Druz. Not sure about Sepharadic, but I reckon the Naf cover their stock too.

Spoonez el Grande

Most Jews I've come across in England look Eastern European, which isn't surprising. But I've also met a few who could easily be Yemenites or Pakistanis. Clearly Jewish groups have mixed with local populations, but it's a moot point. I don't understand the big deal.