Muslims and democracy

jdmufc

why are they not very good at it?

PJ

This can only end well.

WR

cinc

Idiots and democracy. Why are they not very good at it?

phelans shorts

girish

I'd rather worry about websites not allowing hotlinking..

jdmufc

i'm actually genuinely curious,it never seems to go well in muslim countries and i have no idea why,maybe someone can enlighten me?

maybe my first post is slightly misleading,i mean countries that are run with muslim law.

africanspur

What do you mean in never seems to go well in Muslim countries? How many of them have had the chance to try it exactly?

Are you under the impression that the democracies in Europe sprung up overnight?

africanspur

And the Economist estimates that that there are only 26 'full democracies' worldwide, 15% of the countries in the world and housing only 12% of its population. There are far more people living in a fully authoritarian regime.

cinc

Can you get a link for this article? Would love to see it.

Wonder Pigeon

Who let Glen Beck on the Caf?

MikeUpNorth

Democracy Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

africanspur

Here you go mate, its a whole report.

http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democrac...x_2010_web.pdf

jdmufc

is this true? wow,can you post the list of the 26?

africanspur

It is in the link. There are of course also a lot of 'hybrid' and 'flawed' democracies.

Brosstan

africanspur

Maybe a few of these are in order?

MG

Don't let rednev see this.

711

If I believed in god, and a particular set of prophets and their writings, then I would say that the opinions of a democratic majority should be irrelevant, and that only the will of that god should matter.

As I believe the many and various prophets just made up their stuff themselves, then they carry no more weight than anyone else, and I'll stick to democracy, thanks.

RedKaos

cinc

Thanks mate, seems quite a bit flawed, but thats the nature of these surveys.

Neutral

Because you touch yourself at night.












Seriously that's why we're shit at it.

EDIT: Same reason so many african countries are shit at it....countries that for a long time were colonies or run by despots, and populations and internal politics that are very volatile.

Sultan

The idea of the West at present is to have, and promote democracy in the Muslim world, but only if the leaders voted in are to their liking.

jdmufc

my opening post was just me being flippant but i am genuinely curious if real democracy can be achieved within a country with muslim law,and i wont lie,i know little about muslim law and would appreciate some educated answers to help me understand it all better or we can post more gifs,either way i'm good.

kouroux

There is no such thing as true democracy.

cinc

If you're serious, this is a good starting point: Islam and democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sultan

Do Muslims Want Democracy and Theocracy?

"Ironically, we don't have to look far from home to find a significant number of people who want religion as a source of law. In the United States, a 2006 Gallup Poll indicates that a majority of Americans want the Bible as a source of legislation.

Forty-six percent of Americans say that the Bible should be "a" source, and 9% believe it should be the "only" source of legislation.
Perhaps even more surprising, 42% of Americans want religious leaders to have a direct role in writing a constitution, while 55% want them to play no role at all. These numbers are almost identical to those in Iran"

MikeUpNorth

So the question is posed, why have the USA successfully managed to resist becoming a theocracy despite similar levels of politicised religious sentiment as Iran?

Pogue Mahone

Option 1 seems sensible enough. Well done, Malaysia.

RedKaos

For what its worth I don't think a Muslim country can ever be a democracy if it refuses to separate Islamic doctrines from executive, legislative or judiciary elements. Turkey have done a pretty good job of it but that's thanks to their secularised nature engineered by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Saudi Arabia and Iran on the other end of the spectrum though...

Though I somewhat agree with Kouroux's point, even the most ardent beacons of democracy today hold severe democratic deficiencies, I think people are making unfair comparisons to whats essentially a utopian ideal.

jdmufc

cheers.

so,i've only read a bit of that but would i be correct to assume from that article that democracy within a muslim country is made much more difficult if that country contains both sunni's and shi'a's?

Raoul

Freedom House has a pretty good list of "Freedom in the World", where they give nations a 1-7 rating (1 being the most free). They also separate their ratings between political rights (PR) and civil liberties (CL).

http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/de...let--Final.pdf.

IL_DUCE

There is really no contradiction between Islamic faith and democracy. The challenge, as I see it, is that Muslim governments normally are much more conservative than the general population. Democracy is thus not an appropriate strategy for the government. As long as democracy is linked to the Western way of life, and muslim populations are not able to force changes, it is doubtful that "real" democracy will take place any time soon. I am however sure that Muslim countries will evolve towards democracy, and that this will modernize - not weaken - the Islamic faith and muslim way life.

I believe that this will be a time where the world can see, focus on and enjoy the qualities of different muslim civilizations. Not least in relation to family values​​, hospitality, art and culture etc.

Note that Bangladesh and Indonesia are among several Muslim countries who thrives on democratic governance. In other words, it´s religious masked / rooted dictatorship and democracy who don´t go well together.

Feck, game is on....

Sultan

Loaded question

Colonisation, interference (support of theocracies by the west) poverty...

Sultan

Agreed

MikeUpNorth

The US was also a relatively poor colony with much interference in the not so distant past. India too. So there is hope.

jdmufc

nice post,can any of the muslims on here clarify what modernization of the muslim faith might entail?

africanspur

There is nothing inherently within Islamic law that precludes democracy. What is a major part of the problem is that, for some of the extreme twats who do see this contradiction, they see democracy as being a 'Western' ideal and therefore alien to an Eastern, Islamic way of life. Some of them are able to guilt people into their way of thinking as well.

Some people within the 'black' community have said similar things about me. Some West Indians, born and raised in the UK, have called me a house negro and a sellout for getting myself an education. For them, an education is 'Western' and therefore, we cannot do as 'they' do. This was of course said without any kind of idea about my past or what I have done to further black and African causes. It was a simple case of education is white. You got educated. Why are you trying to be a white man? Having spent most of my life in Africa, while these idiots spent theirs in England, I found this both funny and sad.

We now have unrealistic expectations of countries. Probably because the major buzzword is security and stability. It is no longer seen to be acceptable to have any kind of civil strife or war. Europe went through centuries of wars, failed states, appalling humans rights abuses, colonisation, slavery and other things, before emerging as relatively free democracies. We expect countries, many of them not homogenised ethnically or religiously, to emerge as full democracies, with full free speech and human rights, within a few months or years.

And can I ask, what are your reference points for Muslims and democracy? Because most of the theocratic and despotic regimes in the Islamic world are fully supported and funded by the free and democratic west.



Let's not forget of course that the USA has a 'theoretical' starting point of already being a secular, democratic state. Iran was once so, until the govt was overthrown, with the help of a certain intelligence agency.

Sultan

Over a century has past.

The West still has a tight grip on the throats of ME, Pakistan, and Afghanistan.

Sultan

I think we'll have a clearer picture once the Arabs, and the West are less dependent on oil for their existence.