Muslims and democracy

anver · 8th February 2012, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

Stop swearing

I've personally seen many people prostrating in front of graves. Shrines in such places like Ajmer, and Nizamuddin have become places where people go to fulfill the wishes. These places, and their guardians are just scamming innocent, and naive people.

I too have been to these places, and am planning a visit to the shrine of Bande Nawaz in Gulbargah end February.

But, I dont remember seeing prostration. If they did, then it is definitely wrong, and done through ignorance. The trustees of these places should put up boards and banners advising people to refrain from this practice.

The guardians are defo fleecing naive people. But, what can be done about it?

Close them down? Or as the Taliban is doing in Pakistan, bomb them?

Neutral · 8th February 2012, 09:32

The whole culture around them needs to change. Mind you, there are a million and one more pressing needs with regards to Islam and Muslims that needs to be looked at before we worry about what goes on at 'Mazars'.

africanspur · 8th February 2012, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

How many marched 1m?

Out of a population of 65m.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

Claire Short, Robin Cook.

There's over 600 MPs in the houses of parliament.

Ponder those numbers for a second, as a reflection of what we were saying earlier.

Your post said there was no major opposition to the Iraq war in the UK. This is false.

And it was a million in London alone. There were other separate protests in other cities, at the same time.

Only those two resigned. A lot of Labour MPs were against it, yet unwilling to lose their power by openly rebelling.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Labour MPs 'oppose Iraq war'

Sultan · 8th February 2012, 09:43

I don't even get the fascination of visiting shrines. It's a just a magnet for freaks, con artists, and beggars. If you love, respect those people buried in those graves the best way to celebrate their life is acting upon their teachings. Similar to that of the Prophet (SAW).

africanspur · 8th February 2012, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

It's not that simple.

The UN were dragging their heels and Sadaam wasn't co-operating fully with the investigation.

If he didn't have WMDs he did a great job of making the west think he had.

Complete and utter rubbish. The UN were not 'dragging their heels', they were undergoing due process before an invasion that would cost hundreds of thousands of lives. I know its easy to sit at home and feel nothing about the deaths of these people considering they're so far away but some people have to make decisions that can cost or save lives. Unfortunately, Bush was hellbent on an illegal war. And even with the militaristic rhetoric coming from the US and its little lapdog, Hans Blix confirmed that Iraq was co-operating with inspections and that disarmament would occur if Iraq remained co-operative. Difficult when there are cruise missiles flying around.

In the end, the UN security council didn't vote in favour of military action and there was no evidence that Iraq was trying to hide WMDs. What was the British public's reaction to that?

Do you support us going to war if...

The UN inspectors do not find proof that Iraq is trying to hide weapons of mass destruction, and the UN security council does not vote in favour of military action

Support: 26%
Oppose: 63%

Ah, right. Of course, once the tanks rolled in, people had to be seen to be supporting the troops but the support for a pointless, brutal war was at no point particularly high.

anver · 8th February 2012, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

I don't even get the fascination of visiting shrines. It's a just a magnet for freaks, con artists, and beggars. If you love, respect those people buried in those graves the best way to celebrate their life is acting upon their teachings. Similar to that of the Prophet (SAW).

That is your point of view, and I respect that.

I beg to think differently, and I dont pass judgement on people.

Sultan · 8th February 2012, 09:55

I'll move this thread to the CE forum.

anver · 8th February 2012, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

Complete and utter rubbish. The UN were not 'dragging their heels', they were undergoing due process before an invasion that would cost hundreds of thousands of lives. I know its easy to sit at home and feel nothing about the deaths of these people considering they're so far away but some people have to make decisions that can cost or save lives. Unfortunately, Bush was hellbent on an illegal war. And even with the militaristic rhetoric coming from the US and its little lapdog, Hans Blix confirmed that Iraq was co-operating with inspections and that disarmament would occur if Iraq remained co-operative. Difficult when there are cruise missiles flying around.

In the end, the UN security council didn't vote in favour of military action and there was no evidence that Iraq was trying to hide WMDs. What was the British public's reaction to that?

Do you support us going to war if...

The UN inspectors do not find proof that Iraq is trying to hide weapons of mass destruction, and the UN security council does not vote in favour of military action

Support: 26%
Oppose: 63%

Ah, right. Of course, once the tanks rolled in, people had to be seen to be supporting the troops but the support for a pointless, brutal war was at no point particularly high.

Who cares if a few hundred thousand lives are snuffed out?

Those who did care came out in protest.

Neutral · 8th February 2012, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

I'll move this thread to the CE forum.

Leave it...lots of people don't bother venturing into the CE forum, this might get more people at least clicking on the topic. And if we can dispel a few myths, it's a win-win for all concerned.

Sultan · 8th February 2012, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutral

Leave it...lots of people don't bother venturing into the CE forum, this might get more people at least clicking on the topic. And if we can dispel a few myths, it's a win-win for all concerned.

Sorry bro, I'd already moved the thread before this post.

Simon Adebesi · 8th February 2012, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

Do Muslims Want Democracy and Theocracy?

"Ironically, we don't have to look far from home to find a significant number of people who want religion as a source of law. In the United States, a 2006 Gallup Poll indicates that a majority of Americans want the Bible as a source of legislation.

Forty-six percent of Americans say that the Bible should be "a" source, and 9% believe it should be the "only" source of legislation.
Perhaps even more surprising, 42% of Americans want religious leaders to have a direct role in writing a constitution, while 55% want them to play no role at all. These numbers are almost identical to those in Iran"

Apologies if this has already been brought up but have you seen the docu Jesus Camp? You watch it and it does make you start to see parts of the US as basically a Christian Saudi Arabia.

marjen · 8th February 2012, 10:51

It's incredible that som europeans seem to think democracy is the way it always has been, and the way nature made for us.

It's just not that simple I'm afraid.

How many countries do have functioning democracies, in reality? I'd imagine a large majority of the world doesn't.

anver · 8th February 2012, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Adebesi

Apologies if this has already been brought up but have you seen the docu Jesus Camp? You watch it and it does make you start to see parts of the US as basically a Christian Saudi Arabia.

Sounds like Geert Wilders has hit town.

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8th February 2012, 09:32	#122 (permalink)
Neutral BTV Join Date: May 2010 Location: DC/Canberra/Dhaka Posts: 6,447	The whole culture around them needs to change. Mind you, there are a million and one more pressing needs with regards to Islam and Muslims that needs to be looked at before we worry about what goes on at 'Mazars'.

8th February 2012, 09:43	#124 (permalink)
Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing Posts: 31,451	I don't even get the fascination of visiting shrines. It's a just a magnet for freaks, con artists, and beggars. If you love, respect those people buried in those graves the best way to celebrate their life is acting upon their teachings. Similar to that of the Prophet (SAW).

8th February 2012, 09:55	#127 (permalink)
Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing Posts: 31,451	I'll move this thread to the CE forum.

8th February 2012, 10:51	#132 (permalink)
marjen Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: at the back post, lurking around, waiting for an easy tap-in. Posts: 3,612	It's incredible that som europeans seem to think democracy is the way it always has been, and the way nature made for us. It's just not that simple I'm afraid. How many countries do have functioning democracies, in reality? I'd imagine a large majority of the world doesn't.