A people's Revolution

Sultan

Don't debate religion or politics with these people. They have this arrogant belief that religion (Islam) is not properly understood presently by anyone but themselves.

Neutral

Egypt: Opposition Leaders being arrested, and anti-terror paramilitary out in force.

All you need is a few more Arab nations to recognize Israel, and Mubarak will stop being protected by the US, and possibly stop the billions in aid it receives every year for being a 'mate in the region'

You do that, and you start to make some real headway into his power.

Raoul

What an epic photo. Reminds me a bit of the Tianamen Square pic from 1989.

sully07

All mobile networks turned off along with internet access.

Hope Avatar is OK.

When the populous finally decide they have had enough it is an unstoppable tide. I was 25 when the Berlin wall was torn down by hand, this has a similar feel. Different circustances I know.

Neutral

this too...low quality pic, and it's a water cannon, not tanks, but the action is brave nevertheless

holyland red

Good luck, Avatar

full instructions here:

http://www.nrg.co.il/images/news1/egypt.pdf

MUFAN79

WikiLeaks has released a timely new cable on police brutality

Neutral

BBC and Al Jazeera journos(might be local) beaten by plain clothes coppers.

Tear gas and rubber bullets being used extensively by security forces to beat back crowds.

Mockney

Worrying state of affairs....Or worrying affairs of the state. How likely is the Government to be able to suppress this?

Neutral

Very.

This won't be another Tunisia, well at least not in the short term. As I said, Mubarak and his regime have the support of the Americans, but long term, who knows, sustained pressure might yield some results.

But Murabak and the state machinery have decades of experience and expertise in how to deal with 'trouble makers'. If they need to, I can easily see them killing thousands, to maintain the status quo.

Sir Matt

There its an article in the New York times about how the Muslim Brotherhood is or has joined the protests despite the protests being largely secular to this point. Without any real leader, the protests look like a good opportunity for the MB.

MUFAN79

Live coverage:

Al Jazeera English - Live Streams - Watch Now - Al Jazeera English

Neutral

hah...these poor fools have no hope.

The narrative is being changed as we watch...it's becoming, all about the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamists, Suez Canal...and what'll happen to Israel.

Really am sick of this shit.

"Oh no...we have to prop up Mubarak, or else the big bad mullahs will come into power..."despite the live feeds showing protesters from all ages, and walks of social walks, and genders. The protests are so much more than that, it's to do with high employment, a young population that is fed up of being tied down with no real prospects.

The brotherhood doesn't continue to have popularity only because of their Muslim roots, but because they continue to speak out against Mubarak.

If this despot were to be taken down, 1st time around, MB would do well in the polls, but with each election, their support levels would drop. Egypt after all has a Coptic minority that ranges from anywhere 10%-15%...can't see them voting for the Brotherhood. Not to mention it has a very young population, most of it westernized....

This is the same as Hamas in the Territories, they offer an alternative, and carry out social work, so people look to them, give them credible alternatives, and they will drift away.

Look at the main areas where Islamic extremism is spreading from, all places where there is no democracy. At what point will the West realize, the tactic of the lesser evil, is actually WRONG. We hear leaders paying lip service to the concept of in the end everyone wants to be free, no matter who they are, yet when it comes to the muslim world, this theory is ignored.

Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

Three major US allies, all with no democracy, and 2 of those countries had citizens who took part in the actual 9/11 bombings( and Pakistani Khalid Sheikh Mohammed supposedly helped to plan it all).

Bangladesh is a sh*t, poor, 3rd world country, with 160mil people, 145mil of those muslim, yet as flawed as it is, there is a democracy there, and even Islamic parties, yet those parties fail to gain anything more than 2-3% of the popular vote in general elections.

I guess in the end, the only truth is,

ME dictators get a permanent get out of jail card, with a condition

Be our stooge

mess that up, and the rights of your citizens to live in a free and fair world will be championed by the west.

Twisted_Woody

BBC News - Egypt unrest

Wow....

This is going to end in blood I feel....most likely the blood of the people who don't have guns. :S

Team Brian GB

Avatar, wherever you are or whatever you maybe doing, good luck to you.

Twisted_Woody

We have a caftard in Egypt?

Dr. Dwayne

A-ha! Now perhaps you might understand, TW!!

Although it is not the only reason to have 'em.

Twisted_Woody

If neither had guns that'd be best....

That being said there would be many deaths from people who had guns who were not properly trained...

McLovin

Yes, Avatar. Lives in Cairo.

Dr. Dwayne

States will be armed, always and forever. It would be folly not to be. As for citizens it's a difficult argument but many would say that a state which disarms its citizens only does so because it fears them, they play the public safety card as a ruse. In the end, it makes it much easier to defeat open revolt.

As to your second point, that's why we have the Canadian Firearms Safety Course(s) as a prerequiste to getting a firearms licence. As well as laws against pointing a firearm in all but the most extreme situations.

Twisted_Woody

Caftard rescue mission?

Not really. If you push a people far enough, they won't fear being shot. Egypt and Tunisia are examples of this. If a population is at a point where they want to revolt they will find weapons and find a way.

As for the second point, a crazy person with a gun, is still a crazy person with a gun. Maybe they broke into a house and stole it? Maybe they managed to pass the course...either way...

I can understand gun ownership in rural areas where police response times are no doubt much longer than in a city.

Silva

WikiLeaks cables show close US relationship with Egyptian president | World news | The Guardian

Dr. Dwayne

Sure but it's much better to be alive and packing than dead with a brick in your hand.

And a crazy person with a rental truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel is the same. Perhaps society should look at helping the crazy people instead of damning the inanimate object?

Oh definitely, there the issue is more with wild animals but it's a sound point;anyway, enough taking the thread off track, sorry lads. (Oh, the police aren't there to protect you, though. Only to uphold the law, their little motto is a misnomer. Not saying you need a gun for protection, big dogs are much better but why not have both? I do. )

Free Egypt!!

Neutral

Curfew about to be enforced in a matter of minutes.

Mubarak to address the nation..anyone want to take a guess what he'll say?

Ill take a guess

Terrorists are trying to divide us, we must resist.

Team Brian GB

If that combined with giving the army responsibility for maintaining order isn't pulled off he is out of options. Hillary Clinton is expected to go on the air soon, it will be very interesting to see if Washington will drop the gauntlet or give the typical diplomatic wishy washy response.

Raoul

Astonishing. What next ? Exposing US / Israeli close relations ?

Raoul

Expect the latter. "The will of the people should be heard" etc.

Neutral

Good old Joe Biden and Real Politik at work...

Israel...that's all that matters, and then the even more laughable, 2nd sentence, he's not a dictator....HAHAHAH.

Tibs

Twisted_Woody

Depends what kind of life that is... sometimes it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Neutral

This is going to be so sad when this bastard lies in front of the world and says, Islamists are coming, be afraid, I'll save you.

But as others have said, in 30 years people haven't really challenged in this manner, now that they've gotten a taste for it, I'm sure they'll slowly but surely wear this evil regime down.

RedKaos

No shit, they're practically the reason he's managed to consolidate his reign of brutality for three decades. Its why you have Biden, Hillary and the gang defending him as the right man to take Egypt on the right path.

Had this been Iran then they would have been wheeling Hillary out every 10 minutes to praise the courage of the defiant Iranians, while rallying the international consensus in demanding Khameni step down. They've been awfully quiet in the last couple of weeks though, strange that...

Frosty

America is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

RedKaos

Simple US guidelines:

Pro-US, pro-Israel, free corporate access to resources = beacon of democracy, good job buddy! (regardless of corruption, human rights violations or election rigging)

Anti-US foreign policy, critic of Israel, nationalise resources for population's own use = OMG dictator! (regardless of genuine democracy, and government's popularity)

Applies anywhere in the modern world - try it, its fun.

Silva

Well yeah, but it's still good timing for the leak and should hopefully stop the yanks from doing anything stupid.

Neutral

No I think we all understand international relationships are difficult, and never as black and white as we would like it to be.

Countries have to form all kinds of partnerships, and no nation is completely altruistic in it's dealing with the world, everyone has an angle. That's fair enough.

But Joe Biden could have pretended to pay lip service to the ideals of democracy. But he didn't even think that was necessary, straight up, no, he's not a dictator.

Define dictator then, Joe?

Team Brian GB

Their reaction has been the same.

Though what would you like the Americans to do? They didn't standby and allow abusive regimes to remain in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet you detest them for that in practice and principle.

Silva

Difference is, they didn't support the regimes of Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place.

RedKaos

You honestly think they've responded just as they have to Iran?

What the Americans can do is be consistent and condemn Mubarak's corruption and brutality and call for democracy in Egypt. But they've refrained from doing so and have given him support to continue his reign....not just now but in the last 30 years.

And they've allowed an abusive regime to stand in Iraq for the best part of 20 years till it was no longer loyal to them. You're looking at it from a very naive point of view.

Silva