Rhodri Giggs speaks to the Sun - "Ryan is a worm".

Livvie

Judging - or passing an opinion?

You might as well say that we shouldn't discuss anything we read in the newspapers then.

The forum would be a bit bloody dull if we did that. Should obviously have closed the John Terry type threads.

crappycraperson

Certain moral judegement and condemnation for such actions is very much needed in society.
Making illegal or prosecuting such actions is way out of order. But making sure that such things count as despicable is fine since marriage/partnership between a couple is somewhat a part of foundation of a society.
I hate the papperazi culture so do not necessarily want such things to be out in public. But since that is something one can not control or stop now so once such thing is brought out, to expect people not to form any opinion is not possible. If someone asks me what do I think of someone doing that to a brother.. what do I say? It is none of my business? That would be a needless diplomatic answer and since I am not in politics, it is fine to comment on social and moral issues. And this one is very much black and white as well leaves no scope to tip toe around it unless you wish to pardon someone from criticism. Again I do not think it is on that Giggs private life is subject of public speculation but those who know of such an act should feel free to condemn or even pass moral judgement on it.

If I was out to commit a similar act, I would very much expect people who come to know of it to think of me as a cunt.

The Neviller

I'm not saying I condone it or that I think it's right what he did, I'm just saying I don't understand why people care so much about what other people do in their personal lives. The only personal life I care about is my own. I know Ryan Giggs as a Manchester United footballer, I don't care to know him as anything more.

crappycraperson

You do not have to care about something to discuss it.

That's is how discussions about any kinds of news items work. Basically if someone posts something in a forum, it is akin to someone asking your opinion on something, so you comment your view or judgement on that piece.

The other aspect is that some fans may and do look upto Giggs or idolise him. Whilst it is easy to say that you should separate the player and the person, it does not always work that way. Might be hard for many to adore a beloved player they know of being such a cunt in real life.

The Neviller

Maybe I just don't get the "Cult of Personality", in that I don't understand our obsession with celebrity and our need to know everything that goes on in a footballers personal life. The same goes for actors and actresses. I don't condone Ryan Giggs actions, if I WAS being judgement I'd say he was an underhand cunt and what he did was wrong, but the truth of it is I don't really care. If he plays well for United then that's all I'm bothered with. Same as I only care how good an actor is in a film I've watched, I don't care who he was knobbibg when it was filmed.

NewDawnFades

His marriage was ruined by his brother, but Rhodri Giggs should still try to have a shred of self respect. He's doing fucking keepy uppys the advert he's in promoting the article about the affair his wife had with Ryan.

RedSky At Night

Giggs

EricaNo7

Well I dont know about you but I thoroughly enjoyed the John Terry affair and felt very let down in a strange way to find out one of our own was a similar person , especially Giggsy .

Livvie

He's had you too?!

amolbhatia100

Some utterly lame arguments passing about in this thread. If someone on this forum admitted to doing the same, he should get shitloads of flack as well. This whole 'let's dig our heads under the sand because its Giggsy' stuff is weird. Certain acts are cheap and pathetic and deserved to get condemned whole heartedly.

amolbhatia100

I thought the difference between voicing your opinion and caring was clarified by crappy in the post above yours?

Do I care about john terry's personal life? Heck no, I couldn't care less about his crappy club either. But I did point out that his actions were pathetic. And giggs' are far worse. I don't idolise nor am I obsessed with either.

EricaNo7

Oh lord give me some credit Livvie

Dr. Dwayne

ha-ha, Livvie totally got you there, K.

EricaNo7

She did indeed , I was going to say I'd left myself wide open for that one, but maybe I'd better not

Dr. Dwayne

zing!

The Neviller

You don't care, but you care enough to point out an opinion? Why voice an opinion on something you don't care about, or have no interest in?

The Neviller

Who are you getting at here with your lame arguments thing? Is someone else's opinion lame because it isn't the same as yours?

amolbhatia100

Clearly, it stems from having an opinion on the 'act' more than the 'celebrity'. I think you've got a false notion that it's just the celebrity obsession that's at the heart of it. It's really about an act that people have strong opinions on and think extremely poorly of, but being done by a person whose a household name. As I said, if someone here admits to the same, I'll think the same of him/his action.

The Neviller

That's fair enough, but irrespective of celebrity or otherwise, I also don't understand the judgmental attitude people have either. What gives any of us a right to judge anyone else on moral issues? Are we all so perfect that we've done nothing wrong? I've done things that I regret immensely, and that i'm not proud of. How can I judge someone else, morally, for their actions when i've done things wrong myself?

I agree on the point that screwing your brothers wife is entirely wrong, of course it is, I just find judging people morally a very difficult thing, when in my past I wasn't beyond reproach.

mariachi-19

Ryan Giggs news: Rhodri's sex-mad Natasha wore me out says holiday romeo Graham Griffiths | The Sun |News

hmmmmmm

Livvie

There aren't many people who don't judge on moral issues. And if no-one did, then surely society would totally crumble.

amolbhatia100

I think you're terribly underrating the object of criticising morally poor behaviour. It is the duty of a society that wants to breed good values to condemn the bad ones. It's as simple as that for me. Where do good ethics and values come from? They aren't simply passed on from generation to generation completely keeping events outside an arms reach out of the picture.

sammsky1

I was DISGUSTED by John Terry and the Wayne Bridge affair and was vocal about it at the time on this board.

I was just discussing these Giggs revelations with my little sister, who has a passing interest in football - she likes United because she used to watch them with me and my dad from time to time, and knows her stuff well enough to have a good footballing debate with.

She asked me how I felt about this as - as I always told her that no matter what the likes of Terry, Rooney or Beckham may have done in terms of dishonesty with their life partners within their personal lives, I was as sure as sure can be that Ryan Giggs was a man of principle, thats he shared SAFs values to the core and that all these rumours were just deliberate character deformation by somebody with an anti Giggs agenda.

Why was I so confident? Well I am almost exactly Giggs age, so 'have grown up with him' and thought I knew what he was like. He dated a student friend of mine for 2 months when I was at Manchester University (1992-95) and I met him and Sharpey a few times on fun nights out at The Hacienda. Yes, for a while, I was a Lee Sharpe hanger on groupie! So although only very brief glimpses, albeit at a very early stage in his life, I also thought I had some personal insight into the man.

I even wrote to SAF aged 21, when Giggsy had a dip in from, and I too was going through abit of a personal crisis, trying to convince SAF when they turn 21, some boys can go abit fruit-de-loop and so that he should be patient with Giggs. SAF even wrote back a short reply, thanked me for my insight into the mind of a 21 year old and assured me Giggsy was in his long term plans!

So when it turned out that these rumours were not only true (Imogen Thomas) but there were indeed even more disgusting and sinister acts of betrayal to his wife (having an affair with his sister in law for 8 years), Im disgusted to the core. And my sister rightly asked me just how could I be so wrong in my character assessment of him ... and to be honest, I just have no idea, none whatsoever.

In my opinion, one of the true great attributes to decent character is consistency. And so whilst I have lambasted Terry, Beckham and Rooney et al on this board for their extra marital activities (its something I detest and think very lowly of), I find myself is a real quandary with Ryan Giggs.

Whilst Cantona and Robson will always be my ultimate United greats, Giggs in so many ways surpasses all their contributions and achievements and is arguably of greater legendary status. For many years a truly world class footballer who was the best in the world or thereabouts in his position, a true definition and example for the phrase 'professionalism in one profession' and a genuine role model on how an athlete should conduct themselves physically to achieve sustained success. But these revelations in his personal life disgust me to the core. They completely alter my perception for him.

My sister asked me if I thought Giggs should be called up to represent Great Britain at football in the Olympics - that would give his career the final dimension it had always lacked - participation in an international nation based tournament, albeit of an inferior kind .... and my immediate gut reaction was no. The Olympics is about far more than just sporting prowess. Their are ideals, philosophies and values that the Olympics movement promotes ... and having an 8 year extra marital affair with your brothers wife, while you yourself are also married and a father is not one of them.

Im also left wondering what SAF makes of it all and how he deials with it privately. Given Giggs has no relationship with his father Danny Wilson, SAF would have been his surrogate father. How does a family man with deep rooted values based upon decency react when one of his own is found to be guilty of acts of such moral depravity?

There is no doubt that SAF would not have achieved what he did without having Giggs in his squad during his entire 19 year era of success in the PL. Giggs has been a central and pivotal figure for so many of our glories and success these past 20 years. But I don't think I like Giggsy anymore, despite him being ever present in my life since we were both 17. In fact, I think he disgusts me. Of course I will always be grateful to him for providing me so many positive and magical emotional moments down the years, moments of utter joy that us football fans feel when our team or favourite player does something exceptional.

But man to man, as a man, I think he's a disgrace. I certainly would not want him as a friend and think his actions are of the most despicable kind. Football, bloody hell.

Badunk

She's a tart, Giggsy's a cunt, Rhodri's a dweeb.


There. That's that sorted.