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Old 17th December 2009, 00:45   #1 (permalink)
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Should Uganda debate gay execution?

A pretty intense debate on a live issue in Uganda. Click on the link to read some of the comments ... both for and against ...

Its a parallel universe that we live in.


BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Should Uganda debate gay execution?


Quote:
Should Uganda debate gay execution?

BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Should Uganda debate gay execution?

Should homosexuals face execution? Yes, we accept it is a stark and disturbing question. But this is the reality behind an Anti-Homosexuality Bill being debated on Friday by the Ugandan parliament which would see some homosexual offences punishable by death.

The bill proposes:

Life imprisonment for those convicted of a homosexual act
The death sentence where the offender has HiV, is a "serial offender" or the other person is under 18.
Imprisonment for seven years for "attempted homosexuality."

The bill claims to 'protect the...traditional family values of the people of Uganda', but it has prompted widespread international condemnation.

Homosexuality is regarded as taboo in much of Africa, where it is often regarded as a threat to cultural, religious and social values.

Has Uganda gone too far? Should there be any level of legislation against homosexuality? Should homosexuals be protected by legislation as they are in South Africa? What would be the consequences of this bill to you? How will homosexual 'offences' be monitored?



Quote:
Uganda considers death sentence for gay sex in bill before parliament

• Minimum penalty is life in jail, under anti-homosexuality bill
• US evangelical activists pressed for restrictive measures


Xan Rice in Kampala
guardian.co.uk,
Sunday 29 November 2009

Uganda considers death sentence for gay sex in bill before parliament | World news | The Guardian


As a gay Ugandan, Frank Mugisha has endured insults from strangers, hate messages on his phone, police harassment and being outed in a tabloid as one of the country's "top homos". That may soon seem like the good old days.

Life imprisonment is the minimum punishment for anyone convicted of having gay sex, under an anti-homosexuality bill currently before Uganda's parliament. If the accused person is HIV positive or a serial offender, or a "person of authority" over the other partner, or if the "victim" is under 18, a conviction will result in the death penalty.

Members of the public are obliged to report any homosexual activity to police with 24 hours or risk up to three years in jail – a scenario that human rights campaigners say will result in a witchhunt. Ugandans breaking the new law abroad will be subject to extradition requests.

"The bill is haunting us," said Mugisha, 25, chairman of Sexual Minorities Uganda, a coalition of local lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex groups that will all be banned under the law. "If this passes we will have to leave the country."

Human rights groups within and outside Uganda have condemned the proposed legislation, which is designed to strengthen colonial-era laws that already criminalise gay sex. The issue threatened to overshadow the Commonwealth heads of government meeting that ended in Trinidad and Tobago today, with the UK and Canada both expressing strong concerns. Ahead of the meeting Stephen Lewis, a former UN envoy on Aids in Africa, said the law "makes a mockery of Commonwealth principles" and has "a taste of fascism" about it.

But within Uganda deeply-rooted homophobia, aided by a US-linked evangelical campaign alleging that gay men are trying to "recruit" schoolchildren, and that homosexuality is a habit that can be "cured", has ensured widespread public support for the bill.

President Yoweri Museveni appeared to add his backing earlier this month, warning youths in Kampala that he had heard that "European homosexuals are recruiting in Africa", and saying gay relationships were against God's will.

"We used to say Mr and Mrs, but now it is Mr and Mr. What is that now?" he said. In a interview with the Guardian, James Nsaba Buturo, the minister of state for ethics and integrity, said the government was determined to pass the legislation, ideally before the end of 2009, even if meant withdrawing from international treaties and conventions such as the UN's Universal Declaration on Human Rights, and foregoing donor funding.

"We are talking about anal sex. Not even animals do that," Butoro said, adding that he was personally caring for six "former homosexuals" who had been traumatised by the experience. "We believe there are limits to human rights."

Homosexuality has always been a taboo subject in Uganda, and is considered by many to be an affront both to local culture and religion, which plays a strong role in family life. This stigma and the real threat of job loss means that no public personality has ever "come out".

Even local HIV campaigns – which have been heavily influenced by the evangelical church with a bias towards abstinence over condom use – have deliberately avoided targeting gay men for both prevention and access to treatment.

"This means many gay men here think Aids is a non-issue, which is so dangerous," said Mugisha, who together with a few colleagues, has risked arrest by agitating in recent years for a change in the HIV policy.

At the same time, some influential religious leaders have warned about the dangers of accepting liberal western attitudes towards homosexuality.

Both opponents and supporters agree that the impetus for the a more hardline law came in March during a seminar in Kampala to "expose the truth behind homosexuality and the homosexual agenda".

The main speakers were three US evangelists: Scott Lively, Don Schmierer and Caleb Lee Brundidge. Lively is a noted anti-gay activist and president of Defend the Family International, a conservative Christian association, while Schmierer is an author who works with "homosexual recovery groups". Brundidge is a "sexual reorientation coach" at the International Healing Foundation.

The seminar was organised by Stephen Langa, a Ugandan electrician turned pastor who runs the Family Life Network in Kampala and has been spreading the message that gays are targeting schoolchildren for "conversion". "They give money to children to recruit schoolmates – once you have two children, the whole school is gone," he said in an interview. Asked if there had been any court case to prove this was happening, he replied: "No, that's why this law is needed."

After the conference Langa arranged for a petition signed by thousands of concerned parents to be delivered to parliament in April. Within a few months the bill had been drawn up.

[In an email to the Guardian on 30 November, Scott Lively said, "I have stated publicly that I do not support the bill as written. It is far too harsh and punitive. My purpose in addressing members of the Uganda parliament in March was to urge them to emphasise therapy, not punishment in their anti-homosexuality law." His long-standing position was, he said, that public policy should "actively discourage homosexuality but only as aggressively as necessary to prevent its public advocacy, much the way laws against marijuana are used in various states here in the US: the law is very lightly enforced, if ever, but the fact the law is on the books prevents advocates of the drug from promoting it, for example, in public schools."]

Christopher Senyonjo, a retired Anglican bishop, said the bill would push Uganda towards being a police state. "This law is being influenced by some evangelicals abroad," he said. "There's a lack of understanding about homosexuality – it's not recruitment, it's orientation."

But among religious leaders of all faiths his is a rare voice. Langa, the pastor, said the only thing lacking in the legislation was a clause for "rehabilitation" of homosexuals, whom he "loves" and wants to help. Gay rights had the potential to destroy civilisation, as the west could soon find out, he said.

"As one parent told me: 'We would rather live in grass huts with our morality than in skyscrapers among homosexuals'."
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Old 17th December 2009, 00:46   #2 (permalink)
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This was a big problem in Iraq in 2009. A few gay establishments popped up in Baghdad which caused a violent backlash against Gays.
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Old 17th December 2009, 00:53   #3 (permalink)
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education, education, education, church involved once again.... disgusting
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Old 17th December 2009, 00:54   #4 (permalink)
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This was a big problem in Iraq in 2009. A few gay establishments popped up in Baghdad which caused a violent backlash against Gays.
Did it lead to any new type of legislation or what are the existing laws?
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Old 17th December 2009, 00:58   #5 (permalink)
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Did it lead to any new type of legislation or what are the existing laws?
Not to my knowledge. Several gay and human rights groups in the west protested quite vocally but no discernible action was taken. The Iraqi Government aren't even remotely interested in taking on the issue in light of the massive challenges the country faces. Its going to remain a problem for some time I'm afraid, at least in Iraq.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:04   #6 (permalink)
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Hopefully we can offer people asylum if needs be. So much of the world is still so unimaginably ignorant.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:04   #7 (permalink)
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I wouldn't be surprised or at least I hope there would be a drop off in foreign aid both from government development agencies and private charities if such a move went ahead, which I'd like to think would keep them away from such a move.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:05   #8 (permalink)
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Hopefully we can offer people asylum if needs be. So much of the world is still so unimaginably ignorant.
That was my thought, these are asylum cases that very few would or could dispute.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:15   #9 (permalink)
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Religion is a double edged sword in Africa. This is one of the negatives.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:32   #10 (permalink)
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Religion is a double edged sword in Africa. This is one of the negatives.
If this is a negative, then what are the positives ?
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:45   #11 (permalink)
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..

Quote:
BBC condemned for hosting web debate on execution for gays in Uganda

From The Times
December 17, 2009
Jack Malvern

BBC condemned for hosting web debate on execution for gays in Uganda - Times Online

MPs have criticised the BBC for hosting an online debate asking whether homosexuals should be executed.

The debate on the have your say website, which was originally entitled “Should homosexuals face execution”, has attracted more than 600 comments, only 200 of which were deemed suitable for publication. Last night it was listed as the most popular forum on the BBC's website.

The corporation changed the headline to “Should Uganda debate gay execution?” after lobbying by the BBC pride board, which is composed of gay and lesbian staff at the corporation.

The forum’s introduction said: “Should homosexuals face execution? Yes, we accept it is a stark and disturbing question. But this is the reality behind an anti-homosexuality bill being debated on friday by the Ugandan parliament which would see some homosexual offences punishable by death.”

While many contributors expressed shock that the question was up for discussion, some agreed with the notion that gay people should be put to death.

Chris from Guildford, wrote: “Totally agree. Ought to be imposed in the UK too, ASAP. Bring back some respectable family values. Why do we have to suffer ‘gay pride’ festivals? Would i be allowed to organise a ‘straight pride’ festival? No, thought as much!! If homosexuality is natural, as we are forced to believe, how can they sustain the species? I suggest all gays are put on a remote island and left for a generation — after which, theoretically there should be none left!”

Another, from Aaron in Freetown, said: “Bravo to the Ugandans for this wise decision, a bright step in eliminating this menace from your society. We hope other African nations will also follow your bold step.”

The Labour MP Eric Joyce told the House of Commons that he was completely mystified why the BBC had posted the forum. He said: “We should be looking at what is going on in Uganda with abhorrence. We should be condemning it, and the BBC should be condemning it, just as we do sexual violence in the Congo or genocide in Rwanda or Darfur.”

Peter Bone, the Tory MP for Wellingborough in Northamptonshire, described the situation as extraordinary. “if I hadn’t heard it from [Mr Joyce] I would have doubted it was true,” he said.

The BBC said the forum had been designed to provoke discussion before a world service programme, Africa have your say. It said that it had tried to “reflect the hugely diverse views about homosexuality in Africa”. David Stead, the programme’s editor, said that he had thought “long and hard” before allowing the question to be asked. He added: “We agree that it is a stark and challenging question, but think that it accurately focuses on and illustrates the real issue at stake.

“If Uganda’s democratically elected MPs vote to proceed with the anti homosexuality bill this week they will bring on to the statute book legislation that could condemn people to death for some homosexual activities. We published it alongside clear explanatory text which gave the context of the bill itself.

“This issue has already sparked much debate around the world and understandably led to us receiving many e-mails and texts. We have sought to moderate these rigorously while trying to reflect the varied and hugely diverse views about homosexuality in Africa.”

Liliane Landor, the BBC world service acting head of Africa region, said the programme was “a dignified exchange between people who have differing beliefs” adding that it had allowed gays and lesbians from Uganda to talk about the impact the legislation would have on their lives.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:49   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Raoul View Post
If this is a negative, then what are the positives ?
Catholic opposition to condom's helping to condemn millions to death?

Although now that I think about it that is a bit of a downer as well.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:50   #13 (permalink)
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The religious organizations provide basic amenities in rural areas, especially education, that is neglected by the federal government who pours money into overpopulated urban centers and embezzles the rest. I would say in Nigeria, about 70% of primary education in rural areas is provided by either the church or mosque.
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:51   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wibble View Post
Catholic opposition to condom's helping to condemn millions to death?

Although now that I think about it that is a bit of a downer as well.
Many people in Africa just ignore the Catholic church regarding condoms, they are everywhere
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:52   #15 (permalink)
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If this is a negative, then what are the positives ?
stop baiting!
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:57   #16 (permalink)
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While many contributors expressed shock that the question was up for discussion, some agreed with the notion that gay people should be put to death.

Chris from Guildford, wrote: “totally agree. Ought to be imposed in the uk too, asap. Bring back some respectable family values. Why do we have to suffer ‘gay pride’ festivals? Would i be allowed to organise a ‘straight pride’ festival? No, thought as much!! If homosexuality is natural, as we are forced to believe, how can they sustain the species? I suggest all gays are put on a remote island and left for a generation — after which, theoretically there should be none left!”
Perhaps we should send Chris and his ilk to Uganda for a generation?
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Old 17th December 2009, 01:58   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by adexkola View Post
Many people in Africa just ignore the Catholic church regarding condoms, they are everywhere
Much of African is resistant to the use of Condom's, just look at the infection and death rates, the opposition from the church is making changing this behaviour much harder and is downright immoral.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:00   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by adexkola View Post
The religious organizations provide basic amenities in rural areas, especially education, that is neglected by the federal government who pours money into overpopulated urban centers and embezzles the rest. I would say in Nigeria, about 70% of primary education in rural areas is provided by either the church or mosque.
Even of true it is hardly a selfless act mainly aimed at religious conversion.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:15   #19 (permalink)
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Perhaps we should send Chris and his ilk to Uganda for a generation?
He would have too much fun killing gays. Send him to San Francisco for a weekend.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:19   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wibble View Post
Much of African is resistant to the use of Condom's, just look at the infection and death rates, the opposition from the church is making changing this behaviour much harder and is downright immoral.
I have to disagree Wibble. The condom is not used as much in Africa as it is in Western Europe, I'll give you that, but it's not as if there is a widespread resistance to condom use, family planning clinics are becoming more prevalent all over Africa. It is less used in Southern Africa, which correlates with the AIDS epidemic in the area. Despite religious views, the situation is much better than it was years ago.

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Originally Posted by Wibble View Post
Even of true it is hardly a selfless act mainly aimed at religious conversion.
So? The fact of the manner is that millions more get a free education where otherwise they would have not. Very few of these turn out to be ignorant as the government officials in Uganda. Education liberates, regardless of who is the conveyor.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:20   #21 (permalink)
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He would have too much fun killing gays. Send him to San Francisco for a weekend.
San Francisco's gayness is overrated. Chelsea on the West Side, Manhattan is where it's at.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:22   #22 (permalink)
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stop baiting!
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:23   #23 (permalink)
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Over time, education makes the general populace wiser. A century ago, it was common practice to throw twins in the forest because they were evil. Other useless practices have been discarded over time, because of a rise in education which taught the populace the origin of twins. There are numerous examples.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:47   #24 (permalink)
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San Francisco's gayness is overrated. Chelsea on the West Side, Manhattan is where it's at.
Actually, Miami Beach is gayer than all of them.
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Old 17th December 2009, 03:01   #25 (permalink)
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Actually, Miami Beach is gayer than all of them.
Including during spring break? FFS, now I have to choose another location
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Old 17th December 2009, 08:01   #26 (permalink)
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So homosexuality is 'a threat to cultural, religious and social values'? Abrahamic faiths are, so far as I'm aware, the only ones which seek to limit the scope of a man's penis. As societies which yet groan under the yoke of these three mythologies, and who have had no Reformation, are immersed in their mythology to the extent that their religion is all of life (as their every act and waking moment is governed by their faith's all-encompassing precepts), it is thus true to say that as their culture is a direct derivative of their mythology, and clearly 'social values' are no more than what defines the culture, we may say that this appalling movement to resurrect the Dark Ages in Uganda and elsewhere (including evangelical-America) is actually entirely a result of the belief that some non-existent fantasy ju-ju in the sky doesn't like homosexual sex.

Or, indeed, ANY sex; why else should most of the adherents of these pernicious faiths mutilate the genitalia of all its male children (who naturally get no say in the matter) in order to seriously impair their capacity to enjoy sex?
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Old 17th December 2009, 09:31   #27 (permalink)
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I wouldn't be surprised or at least I hope there would be a drop off in foreign aid both from government development agencies and private charities if such a move went ahead, which I'd like to think would keep them away from such a move.
The Guardian and the Observer are collecting for a project in Uganda for their annual Xmas appeal. I wonder how this will play with their readers?
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Old 22nd December 2009, 15:09   #28 (permalink)
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Imprisonment for seven years for "attempted homosexuality."
"Attempted homosexuality"? The mind boggles.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 15:52   #29 (permalink)
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Author: ‘The Family’ behind proposed Ugandan law that would execute HIV+ men

The African nation of Uganda is weighing a bill that would impose the death penalty on HIV positive men who have committed what it calls "aggravated homosexuality."

As if that were not shocking enough, a U.S. author is claiming that a secretive group of American politicians appear to be a driving force in seeing the proposal become law.

The Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009, heavily supported by Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni, was first read in October, triggering a wave of condemnation. According to the gay blog Queerty, Joann Lockard, public affairs officer at the Kampala, Uganda embassy, said the law would "constitute a significant step backwards for the protection of human rights in Uganda."

She added: "We urge states to take all necessary measures to ensure that sexual orientation or gender identity may under no circumstances be the basis for criminal penalties, in particular executions, arrests, or detention."

While that condemnation by a U.S. official would seem reflexive, others in U.S. political circles are providing financial and political support for the bill's sponsors, according to author Jeff Sharlet.





Sharlet's book "The Family" is an investigative look at a secretive group of fundamentalist Christian lawmakers in Washington, D.C. In a recent interview with NPR's Terry Gross, he broke the news that The Family's influence in Uganda is rife.

"[The] legislator that introduced the bill, a guy named David Bahati, is a member of The Family," he said. "He appears to be a core member of The Family. He works, he organizes their Ugandan National Prayer Breakfast and oversees a African sort of student leadership program designed to create future leaders for Africa, into which The Family has poured millions of dollars working through a very convoluted chain of linkages passing the money over to Uganda."

And how did Sharlet discover the connection? "You follow [the] money," he said. You look at their archives. You do interviews where you can. It's not so invisible anymore. So that's how working with some research colleagues we discovered that David Bahati, the man behind this legislation, is really deeply, deeply involved in The Family's work in Uganda, that the ethics minister of Uganda, Museveni's kind of right-hand man, a guy named Nsaba Buturo, is also helping to organize The Family's National Prayer Breakfast. And here's a guy who has been the main force for this Anti-Homosexuality Act in Uganda's executive office and has been very vocal about what he's doing, in a rather extreme and hateful way. But these guys are not so much under the influence of The Family. They are, in Uganda, The Family."

Continues at... Author: ‘The Family’ behind proposed Ugandan law that would execute HIV+ men | Raw Story



Highly recommend reading this book to fully understand the pure evil that is at the core of the Republican Party in the USA.
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