Is sport disproportionately represented among the honours list each year?

Nick 0208 Ldn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01phjkd

If you follow the above link and forward the audio to 2hrs 10mins or so, there is an interview with a 92yr old former codebreaker at Bletchley Park who has only now been recognised through the honours system.

The above formed part of the Stephen Nolan show's debate on the topic.

Jippy

You could argue that but the bulk of the honours list seems to be made up of senior civil servants, which gets less coverage.

Dave89

Heard that driving home the other night. It's a total disgrace.

Personally it strikes me as a pathetic attempt to make the monarchy look more in touch.

PhilipB

Someone I know is getting a BEM, whatever that is. They've done community work for years.

Jippy

Not sure how much say they have in it to be honest. Isn't just some faceless committee of civil servant and media types that decide it. They hand a few out to the proles, the trustee road sweeper of 46 years in Bradford, Glenys the salt of the earth lollipop lady in Cardiff to reach out to the common man etc...

Jippy

Haha I voted for you in the CE Forum Nazi of the Year award, but I do actually agree with a lot of what you say by the way.

Penna

Nick, I was only thinking the same last night - I realise that this year, with the GB Olympic team doing so well there was bound to be a high number of awards made to sportsmen and women. However, knighthoods seem to be handed out far more frequently nowadays - used to be that MBEs were the award of choice for sporting achievement.

Wiggins obviously had a very momentous year and it's not as if he's just appeared, he's been at the top of his game for a long time, as have one or two others. However, a lifetime of community service is for me far more worthy of public recognition than sporting success.

I saw that several couples who have devoted their lives to fostering children were awarded MBEs - their efforts surely have to be worth more than that to society as a whole?

Gio

But Farah not getting a knighthood is institutional racism?

Dave89

Yip. I don't think sports people should be ranked so highly or so disproportionately, but if they are, it shouldn't be biased towards white sportspeople.

I don't get how you can disagree with, or find contradiction in, the two points I'm making:

1) Man who makes massive contribution to ending world war two years early, saving countless lives, deserves to be ranked at least as highly as man who is excellent cyclist.

2) Excellent black sports person who does something unprecedented which should be impossible deserves to be ranked as highly as excellent white sports person who does something unprecedented but not impossible.

Ixion

Wiggins's Golds at the previous two Olympics would have contributed to his Knighthood, compared to why Mo didn't get one that is. Although Kelly Holmes was made a Dame on the back of her 2 Golds so who knows.

Gio

Agree that the bulk of the sports awards are political opportunism capitalising on short-term popularity. Less convinced about institutional racism given that (a) Wiggins won both at the Olympics AND at the Tour, and (b) that was manifested through the Sports Personality Awards that indicated the level of public appreciation for Wiggins' achievements.

I was disappointed that Ennis finished higher than Farah in the BBC awards as his two golds were more impressive. However, it wasn't an 'impossible' achievement as such given that if you're the best 10k runner in the world, then it's very likely you're the best 5k runner as shown by Bekele doubling up in Beijing and him and Gebresalassie holding both world records in the recent past.

Drifter

Well done Ken Livingstone to turning down is CBE. Really as become meaningless with every passing year.

rcoobc

I don't understand number 2. Is this about Mo Fara and Bradley Wigwam?

711

It's either nonsense or racist, or maybe both.

Jippy

The people saying it's racist must be on a WUM.

Nick 0208 Ldn

Re: claims of racism

PJ, Would it be supremely naive to think that the relative time competing at the very highest level also plays a part here?

Haile Gebrselassi contended for well more than a decade, whether this be on the track or in marathons. It is believed that Farah will progress on to the latter shortly.

711

Just to be clear I was saying PJ's post was racist, not the awards committee or anyone else.

Nick 0208 Ldn

True enough., of course with some high ranking positions it is almost part of the recognition in holding the job.


Thanks, you doubled my number of nominations at the time. lol It's not something i tend to carry expectatiosn about though.


Great minds and all that.

But yes i'm not saying we don't acknowledge the rare achievements or those of long service and particular inspiration to youth in their field, however when you think what goes on in in the country or on behalf of it in less reported ways, sport and some celebs do receive these honours to a ridiculous extent.

There shouldn't be so many given to the various government departments either, as if they are house points to be bestowed as it suits the moment.

Reduce the number of them generally and have a focus on the sciences, charitable work, communities, emergency services/armed forces and some civil servants.

Jimy_Hills_Chin

6 other athletes have done the 5000 & 10000 metres Olympic 'double'. Lasse Viren a Finish athlete has done the 'double double' winning both at the 1972 & 1976 Olympics. What Mo did was obviously not 'impossible'.

This summer Bradley Wiggins won his 7th Olympic medal and his forth gold; he became the first British man to ever win the Tour De France and the first man in history to win the Tour and an Olympic gold in the same year.

Not that I put much value in the honours system but - if any athlete deserved a high honour this year it was Bradley Wiggins. I appreciate that he lives his life with a quiet dignity too, unlike Mo who was actively campaigning to win the SPOTY.

Claiming racism in this case is a little silly too, as Kelly Holmes became a dame after winning just two Olympic golds.

Jippy

Understood.

Count Orduck

PJ is just finding any old stick here, and racism is the most convenient. I get the distinct impression from his posting in the CE forum that he despises the British institution, and in particular the British monarchy.

I therefore find it pretty odd that he feels compelled to enter and comment in every thread about those very topics.

Dave89

I clearly despise everything British. Especially their football teams!

Dave89

As an aside, how does calling for a knighthood for a British war hero fit your caricature of me as a British-hater?

Nick 0208 Ldn

Do you actually plan on responding to any of the posts calling into question your claims of institutional racism? Or do you now accept that it was a...hasty comment to have made?

Dave89

May have been a bit hasty to state it conclusively, but as you'll know from the link you shared with us, I wasn't the only one to have that thought.

Dave89

By the way, I should maybe take this to a new thread, but it gets irritating having every criticism of the right wing British government (made as a left leaning person), or the British monarchy (made as someone who just doesn't understand the need for any sort of monarchy anywhere) reduced to "you hate the British". It's all very Fox news.

711

Fuck-all to do with if you're left-wing or not (which I happen to be), or the government, or the country, the person who brought colour into it was you, that's why you were called racist.

Dave89

Wibble

I think that mega payed sports people getting them annoys me in the same way that highly paid life long civil servants getting them annoy me. It's like a double reward for the priveledged. I like it when successful people who get little or no financial reward get them much more.