United now one of only three clubs refusing to display red poppy on shirt.

Spoony Youngblood · 5th November 2009, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

See my prior post.

How many innocent Afghans and Iraqis have been taken out by their own people? We are trying to clean the place up and give them freedom.

The main point is to remember the British lives and United is a British club.

Chuckle.

Raoul · 5th November 2009, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yassir

Oh mate if only life were that simple. Who do you think provided support (and ammo) to them in the first place?

And again why stop at Afghanistan or Iraq (which had no links to terrorism)? Why not attack the other countries I listed?

You've clearly given this a lot of thought haven't you Yassir.

Raoul · 5th November 2009, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by rednev

How do you define murder, then? If a Taliban fighter shoots dead a British soldier, is he not a murderer?

It depends what side you're on. Which side are you on ?

Dr. Dwayne · 5th November 2009, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Hand Devil

Funny you should say that man.

Hitler was apparantly behind a fire attack on the Reichstag (German Parliamentary Building) a short while before all the shit started. It was here that he requested from the Kaiser (head of State) that he be given full decision making powers, so if the country was attacked then he would be able to make the proper decisions there & then without all the red tape. The Kaiser agreed & then Hitler ran amuck as he'd all the power & had the Nazi's fully behind his devious plan!

So yes, he did need permission to start a war & the Kaiser signed Hitlers slip!

One of Hitlers reasons for the 2nd World War was because of the embarrassment caused to Germany after the 1st World War. He felt that Germany was unfairly treated & this drove him on to seek retribution!

So much for the "Great War"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriarty

There was no Kaiser in 1933. He abdicated in 1918. Germany's president in 1933 was Hindenberg and it was not until his death in 1934 that Hitler became absolute dictator of Germany.

Sorry RHD, you've been pwnt.

x42bn6 · 5th November 2009, 19:53

Surely one of the things these brave men died for was the right to not be bullied into wearing a badge, emblem or poppy?

Maybe you don't agree with the war, what the poppy stands for, what others think the poppy stands for, what happened during World War I, etc. - but our troops died for our rights, misguided or not.

If you wear your poppy with pride, so be it. It is your view and I will respect that. If you don't wear one, I will respect that too. But linking things like "Respect World War I veterans = wear red poppy" is disgusting in itself.

CantonasWife · 5th November 2009, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

Mrs B

The allies did not go out intentionally to kill the Afghan people. It happened as a result of hitting strategic targets. I don't know a lot about military operations but I do not we are not complete animals. They may see us as a threat and it will be interesting to see what happens in Basra, now that the UK forces are out. Hopefully once the rest of the forces leave we will have left them with a democratic process, a trained police force/army and rid them of Saddam Hussein. If that all works out then our combined time there would have been worthwhile.

Or the forces might leave them in a worse state than they were in the first place. It all depends on how you look at it. I don't think that the allies have been the saviours you paint them as, (nor have they been animals) but it's not that simple. For example, the Christian minority of Iraq were better off before the war started, the extremists now use the invasion as a reason to divide between Christians and Muslims. This is the effect of war, so for some that's acceptable, but it is no way as simple as has been stated in this thread.

032Devil · 5th November 2009, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

pratt

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully07

I would have to say this is the most vile post I have read on the Caf, I hope you are young and can use that as an excuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

Shut up you bellend.

Say that to the families of the 5 lads that were shot the other day by a Taliban posing as a trainee security officer.

Why don't you and the others above say that to George Bush, Gordon Brown and other allies who have promoted this motiveless war which still confuses most and serves no purpose.

A few thousand Allies (victims of 9/11 and a few hundred soldiers) have lost their lives and that is unfortunate BUT around 30,000+ Afghan lives and over 100,000 Iraqi lives have been lost at the hands of the Allied military action and most of them are innocent men, women and children. But I can see none of you give a fuck about THEM. I suppose for the likes of you one English/American/Allied life is worth more than a hundred or a thousand Afghan/Iraqi lives.

Many parents of our soldiers DO blame our politicians for the soldiers death and not some faceless enemy.

Maybe for you the truth is an inconvenience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amolbhatia100

I don't see what's so wrong with this post. Sadly far too many inncent lives have been destroyed due to this brilliant war on terror. And it's badly achieved much.

Thankyou.

Dr. Dwayne · 5th November 2009, 20:50

I understand the criticism of the Iraq and Afghan wars but if those of you who are actively arguing against them think that those lives lost would not have been lost to the tyrannical regimes that were toppled then I think you are sadly mistaken.

Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who oppressed anyone who wasn't a Sunni. Some estimate he was responsible for the deaths of 2 million i nthe region in his years in power.*

The Taliban tortured and killed men and women for the slightest violation of their incredibly strict religious code.

Millions of Brits, Americans, Canadians, French and others died so that we could have the freedoms we enjoy now, it is only logical (albeit tragic) that people in other countries on the brink of freedom from tyranny will perish as well. Personally, I would rather perish for the prospect of freedom than at the hands of tyrants. We're not squeaky clean in any of this by any means but what's being done is better than doing nothing at all.

VidaRed · 5th November 2009, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

I understand the criticism of the Iraq and Afghan wars but if those of you who are actively arguing against them think that those lives lost would not have been lost to the tyrannical regimes that were toppled then I think you are sadly mistaken.

Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who oppressed anyone who wasn't a Sunni. Some estimate he was responsible for the deaths of 2 million i nthe region in his years in power.*

The Taliban tortured and killed men and women for the slightest violation of their incredibly strict religious code.

Millions of Brits, Americans, Canadians, French and others died so that we could have the freedoms we enjoy now, it is only logical (albeit tragic) that people in other countries on the brink of freedom from tyranny will perish as well. Personally, I would rather perish for the prospect of freedom than at the hands of tyrants. We're not squeaky clean in any of this by any means but what's being done is better than doing nothing at all.

why has he supported by the us govt earlier ?

Nick 0208 Ldn · 5th November 2009, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 032Devil

who have promoted this motiveless war which still confuses most and serves no purpose.

A few thousand Allies (victims of 9/11 and a few hundred soldiers) have lost their lives and that is unfortunate BUT around 30,000+ Afghan lives and over 100,000 Iraqi lives have been lost at the hands of the Allied military action and most of them are innocent men, women and children. But I can see none of you give a fuck about THEM. I suppose for the likes of you one English/American/Allied life is worth more than a hundred or a thousand Afghan/Iraqi lives.

Many parents of our soldiers DO blame our politicians for the soldiers death and not some faceless enemy.

Maybe for you the truth is an inconvenience.

The motives are there well enough and so is our purpose [not that this is always evident at a high political level].

You also appear to have made the unfortunate mistake of treating both the Iraq and Afghan wars as if they wre on and the same.

It is further sad to see you talk of deaths in Afghanistan and not in either posts mention the Taleban nor al-Qaeda.

Raoul · 5th November 2009, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by VidaRed

why has he supported by the us govt earlier ?

Because relations between countries can evolve or degrade over time depending on each nations strategic interests. The same applies to US involvement in Afghanistan. Different era, different strategic objectives.

Raoul · 5th November 2009, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick 0208 Ldn

You also appear to have made the unfortunate mistake of treating both the Iraq and Afghan wars as if they wre on and the same.

This happens a lot. Two entirely different conflicts.

711 · 5th November 2009, 21:50

Wearing a poppy does not signify support for any particular war or government or policy, it is a mark of respect for the sacrifices made by individual soldiers, mostly conscripted, as it happens.

I've always thought that the standard plastic poppy, millions exactly the same, shows all lives lost or damaged are worth the same, irrespective of rank or class or creed, so I don't like anything else being worn. Don't like the supersize ones some self-important people wear, don't like embroidered ones either.

The players all arrive and leave in suits, let them decide what to stick on their lapels themselves. (And I don't like the Mail either).

King_Eric · 5th November 2009, 22:20

I always thought the poppy was a symbol of just the Great War, because the poppies have become a symbol of the trench wars and their victims in Flanders Fields but also because of the period of the year it is commemorated.

But apparently, if I understand correctly, it commemorates fallen soldiers from all wars? Or just the two world wars?

Rood · 5th November 2009, 22:26

Details of the poppy appeal for those who dont know:
The Royal British Legion - The Poppy Appeal

"Each year the nation expresses its unequivocal support for The Royal British Legion's charity work through the Poppy Appeal. The 2009 Poppy Appeal is emphasising the need to help the Afghan generation of the Armed Forces and their families – today and for the rest of their lives."

"The Royal British Legion safeguards the welfare, interests and memory of those who are serving or who have served in the Armed Forces..."

peterstorey · 5th November 2009, 22:30

It's primarily associated with the massive loss of young lives in World War One but by association and extension with all loss of lives in war, irrespective of the justness or otherwise of the cause.

Mockney · 5th November 2009, 22:37

Quote:

In early 1934, Lord Rothermere (owner and editor of the Mail - His family still own it) and the Mail' were editorially sympathetic to Oswald Mosley and the radical National Socialist British Union of Fascists. Rothermere wrote an article entitled "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" * in January 1934, praising Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine". However, pressure from advertisers in the Daily Mail grew significant when Rothermere proposed to set up a cigarette company and so Rothermere backed off and ceased to support them.

Rothermere was a friend and supporter of both Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, which influenced the Mail's political stance towards them up to 1939. Rothermere visited and corresponded with Hitler. On 1 October 1938, Rothermere sent Hitler a telegram in support of Germany's invasion of the Sudetenland, and expressing the hope that 'Adolf the Great' would become a popular figure in Britain. However, this was tempered by an awareness of the military threat posed.

In 1937, the Mail's chief war correspondent, George Ward Price, to whom Mussolini once wrote in support of him and the newspaper, published a book, I Know These Dictators, in defence of Hitler and Mussolini.

In 1938, as persecution of the Jews in Europe escalated, the Mail objected to their seeking asylum in Britain. “The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. The number of aliens entering the country through the back door is a problem to which the Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.”

Rothermere and the Mail supported Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement, particularly during the events leading up to the Munich Agreement. In 2005, the British Foreign Office disclosed previously secret letters from Rothermere addressed to Hitler from the summer of 1939, in which he congratulated the German leader on his annexation of Czechoslovakia, urged him to invade Romania, and called Hitler's work "great and superhuman" **

* The Voice of the Turtle
**Months before war, Rothermere said Hitler's work was superhuman | Media | The Guardian
Daily Mail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fuck The Daily Mail

I, however, personally, would have done it. It may be a fucking disgraceful soapbox witchhunt, but it's not an issue worth making a stand over, and if it does become a stand, then it will be a pointless and rather self defeating one. Showing your support and respect for the soldiers of WWI & II isn't something you should be forced to do, but if you are forced to, no matter how ridiculously, you might as well concede...because the cause is a just one.

That said, we sell poppies by the bucket load outside OT, and do a lot of work behind the scenes for our Armed Forces as well as Unicef (who work to help the victims of the current wars), and countless other charities.. Why should we be bullied into doing this just because some bigoted cunts who think homosexuals are dangerous and perverse, Immigrants are scroungers and muggers and say ridiculous inflamatory reactionary things like "Our sense of nationalism and pride is being taken apart bit by bit'"??....Answer: We shouldn't. But since we are being....just fuckin' do it.

Rooney24 · 5th November 2009, 22:41

Why has this only been raised this season? It has never been asked of any club in the past.....

Rood · 5th November 2009, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

Fuck The Daily Mail

That said, we sell poppies by the bucket load outside OT, and do a lot of work behind the scenes for our Armed Forces as well as Unicef (who work to help the victims of the current wars), and countless other charities.. Why should we be bullied into doing this just because some bigoted cunts who think homosexuals are dangerous and perverse, Immigrants are scroungers and muggers and say ridiculous inflamatory reactionary things like "Our sense of nationalism and pride is being taken apart bit by bit'"??....Answer: We shouldn't.

Correct.

Mockney · 5th November 2009, 22:46

You didn't quote all of it there though rood!!

Moriarty · 5th November 2009, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

It's primarily associated with the massive loss of young lives in World War One but by association and extension with all loss of lives in war, irrespective of the justness or otherwise of the cause.

I suspect that you and I are roughly the same age. When I was at primary school, we wore the poppy for the fallen of the Great War. The deputy head would read alound 'In Flanders Field' at assembly. If November 11th was a schoolday, classes would stop at 11.00am precisely and we'd stand for two minutes silence. In the hall was the Roll of Honour which named all those boys from the school who were killed between 1914 and 1918. One of my mates asked the Deputy Head if German schools had the same thing. He just said "I hope so.' A curious answer for us but one I came to understand better in later life.

Rood · 5th November 2009, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

You didn't quote all of it there though rood!!

I quoted the good bits

Mockney · 5th November 2009, 22:54

meh, fair enough....

peterstorey · 5th November 2009, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriarty

A curious answer for us but one I came to understand better in later life.

I did happen one year to be in Cologne on November 11 and at 11 o'clock they had a 'traditional' parade of jokers and clowns which I thought showed appalling insensitivity.

redhoop · 5th November 2009, 23:05

Freedom is the key word here. They died for our freedom. Freedom to disagree (plenty of that around here). Freedom to choose. If the club chooses to have the badges sewn on the shirts, so be it. If not, then not. I choose to buy and wear a poppy every year for all the soldiers who are prepared to put their lives on the line for me and mine. Just like I choose to give money to a range of charities - war victims, kids, cancer etc. I feckin hate the Daily Mail, so having them disapprove of us is no biggy. We should neither let them set the agenda, or go against them for the sake of it. The club should make up their own minds and leave it at that.

Moriarty · 5th November 2009, 23:07

So Rothermere gave the RAF the Blenheim did he? The thing was a flying coffin. It's maximum speed was actually 265mph (reached by using a 9lb booster which consumed an inordinate amount of fuel) and had a ceiling of 18,000 feet. Daylight operations in the Blenheim were tantamount to suicide. For example, on the 13th August 1940, 11 Blenheims were ordered to attack a Luftwaffe fighter drome at Aalborg. Six were lost to flak and the remaining five were shot down by Bf-109s. 33 aircrew were either killed or taken prisoner and not one Blenheim reached its target. Churchill himself was concerned about the high loss rate for the Blenheims. In August 1941, 2 Group flew 480 sorties and lost 36 aircraft on attacks on German merchant shipping. Churchill wrote to the Chief of Air Staff ordering him not to press the Blenheim crews 'too hard.'

Frosty · 6th November 2009, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

I did happen one year to be in Cologne on November 11 and at 11 o'clock they had a 'traditional' parade of jokers and clowns which I thought showed appalling insensitivity.

It may have had something to do with their being defeated and the painful memories it entails. You often get that in German war cemeteries as well, the feeling of loss for no tangible result. It may stand to reason that the nation would want to forget that.

Moriarty · 6th November 2009, 08:05

Urgent newsflash. Bolton has fallen. Only Old Trafford and Anfield are still holding out against the massed armies of Middle Englanders led by Field-Marshal Rothermere and Lieutenant-General Paul Dacre. 'We will not rest until there's a poppy emblazoned on every shirt, sock, jockstrap and bootlace of each United and Liverpool player.' Dacre has even threatened to have each United player tattooed with a poppy on the inside of their arms. 'It's what our old pal Hitler would have wanted' said Dacre.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Liverpool.html

Mockney · 6th November 2009, 08:49

Quote:

two huge names, Manchester United and Liverpool, remain stubbornly again
Nevertheless, the absence of a poppy on their shirts will make two of the world’s
biggest clubs stand out for all the wrong reasons to the vast television audience in
Britain and in hundreds of countries around the world

United and Liverpool have offered the excuse that they carry out a great deal of work to
recognise the British war dead.

Nevertheless, the absence of a poppy on their shirts will make two of the world’s
biggest clubs stand out for all the wrong reasons to the vast television audience in
Britain and in hundreds of countries around the globe.
....
...

But fans of both clubs are puzzled by their intransigence over the simple matter of having a poppy embroidered on their strips for this weekend. Any argument that this would not be seen against their red shirts is negated by the fact that Arsenal have worn a red strip with a poppy that was perfectly visible.

United play Chelsea on Sunday, and their stance will be in sharp contrast to their London hosts, where the connection between the club and the Chelsea Pensioners is always stressed on Remembrance Sunday.

Basically...."The Jan Moir thing made us look bad...Quick run a reactionary campaign, that'll cover it up and get people back on our side!!!!"

Flying Fox · 6th November 2009, 08:55

Quote:

It's an absolute disgrace that these two clubs refuse to honour the dead. A boycott should be imposed!

Not over the top. At all.

Yassir · 6th November 2009, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raoul

You've clearly given this a lot of thought haven't you Yassir.

What's your point?

Moriarty · 6th November 2009, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

I did happen one year to be in Cologne on November 11 and at 11 o'clock they had a 'traditional' parade of jokers and clowns which I thought showed appalling insensitivity.

I emailed a German chum of mine about this. He tells me that November 11th is a traditional carnival day in Germany and that this was happening long before 1914.

There is something called the 'Volkstrauertag' (people's day of mourning) which came into being after the Great War to commemorate the fallen. It's held in November but after the 11th.

You learn something every day on here.

Red Hand Devil · 6th November 2009, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriarty

There was no Kaiser in 1933. He abdicated in 1918. Germany's president in 1933 was Hindenberg and it was not until his death in 1934 that Hitler became absolute dictator of Germany.

So much for the fuckin Berlin walking tour guide (Brewers walking tours: Brewers Berlin Tours - Walking Tours in English, what a cunt he is on reflection. He told us some amount of shit & that was one of the things he said!

Red Hand Devil · 6th November 2009, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

Sorry RHD, you've been pwnt.

+

Big time Doc. As I said, I did the walkin tour of Berlin & yer man must have made loads shit up along the way. Cuntibollox that he is

Dr. Dwayne · 6th November 2009, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Hand Devil

+

Big time Doc. As I said, I did the walkin tour of Berlin & yer man must have made loads shit up along the way. Cuntibollox that he is

Unlucky. When were you in Berlin?

SecondFig · 6th November 2009, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Hand Devil

So much for the fuckin Berlin walking tour guide (Brewers walking tours: Brewers Berlin Tours - Walking Tours in English, what a cunt he is on reflection. He told us some amount of shit & that was one of the things he said!

I did that tour too, back in...2003 I think. Luckily I can't remember a word he said, so any misinformation has been forgotten. I do remember that I really enjoyed the tour though, seemed very knowledgeable

RedCafe.net

The Leading Manchester United Forum

Member's Login

United now one of only three clubs refusing to display red poppy on shirt.

Latest Forum Topics

Jump to Forum

Not yet registered?

5th November 2009, 19:53	#205 (permalink)
x42bn6 First Team Regular Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: 西田麻衣の谷間. Being a nerd, geek and virgin Posts: 17,357	Surely one of the things these brave men died for was the right to not be bullied into wearing a badge, emblem or poppy? Maybe you don't agree with the war, what the poppy stands for, what others think the poppy stands for, what happened during World War I, etc. - but our troops died for our rights, misguided or not. If you wear your poppy with pride, so be it. It is your view and I will respect that. If you don't wear one, I will respect that too. But linking things like "Respect World War I veterans = wear red poppy" is disgusting in itself.

5th November 2009, 20:50	#208 (permalink)
Dr. Dwayne Slacker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Back where I don't belong Posts: 46,404	I understand the criticism of the Iraq and Afghan wars but if those of you who are actively arguing against them think that those lives lost would not have been lost to the tyrannical regimes that were toppled then I think you are sadly mistaken. Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who oppressed anyone who wasn't a Sunni. Some estimate he was responsible for the deaths of 2 million i nthe region in his years in power.* The Taliban tortured and killed men and women for the slightest violation of their incredibly strict religious code. Millions of Brits, Americans, Canadians, French and others died so that we could have the freedoms we enjoy now, it is only logical (albeit tragic) that people in other countries on the brink of freedom from tyranny will perish as well. Personally, I would rather perish for the prospect of freedom than at the hands of tyrants. We're not squeaky clean in any of this by any means but what's being done is better than doing nothing at all.

5th November 2009, 21:50	#213 (permalink)
711 Real Caftard Fantasy Champ 2009 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Would posters please stop listing our own players. We all know who they are and it's driving me fucking mad. Posts: 7,281	Wearing a poppy does not signify support for any particular war or government or policy, it is a mark of respect for the sacrifices made by individual soldiers, mostly conscripted, as it happens. I've always thought that the standard plastic poppy, millions exactly the same, shows all lives lost or damaged are worth the same, irrespective of rank or class or creed, so I don't like anything else being worn. Don't like the supersize ones some self-important people wear, don't like embroidered ones either. The players all arrive and leave in suits, let them decide what to stick on their lapels themselves. (And I don't like the Mail either).

5th November 2009, 22:20	#214 (permalink)
King_Eric Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bruges Posts: 1,351	I always thought the poppy was a symbol of just the Great War, because the poppies have become a symbol of the trench wars and their victims in Flanders Fields but also because of the period of the year it is commemorated. But apparently, if I understand correctly, it commemorates fallen soldiers from all wars? Or just the two world wars?

5th November 2009, 22:26	#215 (permalink)
Rood nostradamus like gloater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Republik Of Mancunia Posts: 12,998	Details of the poppy appeal for those who dont know: The Royal British Legion - The Poppy Appeal "Each year the nation expresses its unequivocal support for The Royal British Legion's charity work through the Poppy Appeal. The 2009 Poppy Appeal is emphasising the need to help the Afghan generation of the Armed Forces and their families – today and for the rest of their lives." "The Royal British Legion safeguards the welfare, interests and memory of those who are serving or who have served in the Armed Forces..."

5th November 2009, 22:30	#216 (permalink)
peterstorey Bitter Arse hole Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Happy those, who can remain at Highbury! Posts: 25,989	It's primarily associated with the massive loss of young lives in World War One but by association and extension with all loss of lives in war, irrespective of the justness or otherwise of the cause.

5th November 2009, 22:41	#218 (permalink)
Rooney24 First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,551	Why has this only been raised this season? It has never been asked of any club in the past.....

5th November 2009, 22:46	#220 (permalink)
Mockney Only poster to be named Poster of the Year twice Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bangerang.net Posts: 24,967	You didn't quote all of it there though rood!!

5th November 2009, 22:54	#223 (permalink)
Mockney Only poster to be named Poster of the Year twice Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bangerang.net Posts: 24,967	meh, fair enough....

5th November 2009, 23:05	#225 (permalink)
redhoop Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Er...sorry...near Southampton. Posts: 1,477	Freedom is the key word here. They died for our freedom. Freedom to disagree (plenty of that around here). Freedom to choose. If the club chooses to have the badges sewn on the shirts, so be it. If not, then not. I choose to buy and wear a poppy every year for all the soldiers who are prepared to put their lives on the line for me and mine. Just like I choose to give money to a range of charities - war victims, kids, cancer etc. I feckin hate the Daily Mail, so having them disapprove of us is no biggy. We should neither let them set the agenda, or go against them for the sake of it. The club should make up their own minds and leave it at that.

5th November 2009, 23:07	#226 (permalink)
Moriarty Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Reichenbach Falls Posts: 4,859	So Rothermere gave the RAF the Blenheim did he? The thing was a flying coffin. It's maximum speed was actually 265mph (reached by using a 9lb booster which consumed an inordinate amount of fuel) and had a ceiling of 18,000 feet. Daylight operations in the Blenheim were tantamount to suicide. For example, on the 13th August 1940, 11 Blenheims were ordered to attack a Luftwaffe fighter drome at Aalborg. Six were lost to flak and the remaining five were shot down by Bf-109s. 33 aircrew were either killed or taken prisoner and not one Blenheim reached its target. Churchill himself was concerned about the high loss rate for the Blenheims. In August 1941, 2 Group flew 480 sorties and lost 36 aircraft on attacks on German merchant shipping. Churchill wrote to the Chief of Air Staff ordering him not to press the Blenheim crews 'too hard.'

6th November 2009, 08:05	#228 (permalink)
Moriarty Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Reichenbach Falls Posts: 4,859	Urgent newsflash. Bolton has fallen. Only Old Trafford and Anfield are still holding out against the massed armies of Middle Englanders led by Field-Marshal Rothermere and Lieutenant-General Paul Dacre. 'We will not rest until there's a poppy emblazoned on every shirt, sock, jockstrap and bootlace of each United and Liverpool player.' Dacre has even threatened to have each United player tattooed with a poppy on the inside of their arms. 'It's what our old pal Hitler would have wanted' said Dacre. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Liverpool.html