Why are we not joining this initiative?

Successful · 6th March 2013, 11:38

Would it not be the right thing to do to try to incorporate this initiative with Redcafe? I know we already have rules that are followed up with infractions and so on, but I think we should let everyone know where we stand, not only members but people who happen to read on the site by chance.

Is it anything you have discussed? There are of course other good subjects to bring up but I feel this is quite closly connected to football and it's also part of our forum philosophy and culture.

Successful · 6th March 2013, 11:52

To be more specific I would like to see this logo at the bottom of the front page where the twitter, firefox and paypay are hosted. There's some good space there to let people know what we're all about.

We're growing big now. + 50 000 users and sometimes established newpapers refer to us. It feels like a natural step to take. Not?

Wibble · 6th March 2013, 12:00

Who are they?

Successful · 6th March 2013, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

Who are they?

http://www.farenet.org/

They are official partners with UEFA and their logo has been worn by several footballers in the CL. There are new ones as well that could suit our site better in style.

Quote:

Football is the biggest sport in the world and belongs to us all. It should be the right of every person to play, watch and discuss freely, without fear. FARE campaigns to tackles discrimination and use football as a means of overcoming social exclusion.

In February 1999, on the initiative of supporters groups from different regions of Europe, a meeting, which also included football associations and players unions, was held in Vienna to develop a common strategy and policy. Out of this emerged the FARE network - a group of organisations from several European countries.

FARE works through co-ordinated action and common efforts, at local, national and international level, to bring together all those interested in combating discrimination in football.

FARE logo

The general objectives of the FARE network are:

- To promote a commitment to fight discrimination at all levels of football across Europe – in stadiums, on the pitch, in administration, in coaching and sport education and through the media
- Use the appeal of football to tackle societal discrimination
- To foster networking and exchange of good practice transnationally
- To undertake activities to capacity build and empower marginalized and discriminated groups, in particular young people, migrants, ethnic minorities, members of the LGBT communities and women.

rcoobc · 6th March 2013, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successful

Would it not be the right thing to do to try to incorporate this initiative with Redcafe? I know we already have rules that are followed up with infractions and so on, but I think we should let everyone know where we stand, not only members but people who happen to read on the site by chance.

Is it anything you have discussed? There are of course other good subjects to bring up but I feel this is quite closly connected to football and it's also part of our forum philosophy and culture.

Let me know how you get on with using random copyrighted logos without consent, even charities. Especially charities.

Unite Against Racism presumably want to be seen alongside UEFA, FIFA, and the ilk. Not a internet forum that worships Scholes and doesn't serve food.

Successful · 6th March 2013, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

Let me know how you get on with using random copyrighted logos without consent, even charities. Especially charities.

Unite Against Racism presumably want to be seen alongside UEFA, FIFA, and the ilk. Not a internet forum that worships Scholes and doesn't serve food.

It's not sure we get to be part of it, but the least we could do is to contact them and ask if we can join in any way. Seeing as we are a huge factor on the net and that the net is such an important part of football these days I don't see why they should stop that development. They want to reach out with their message and it's not like we're irrelevant.

Redlambs · 6th March 2013, 12:24

We might has well have about 100 other causes plastered around the pages too while we are at it.

I agree it's a good cause and this isn't a terrible idea, but it's clearly in the rules here and every poster knows we are anti-racist. It's not as if anyone looks at a website without that logo and immediately thinks racism anyway.

But it's no skin off my nose either way, so if the admins deem it fit, then fair play.

Jaybezia · 6th March 2013, 12:26

What a load of rubbish... we are anti racism, sticking a sign saying that doesn't change anything?

rcoobc · 6th March 2013, 12:32

Would putting an copyrighted Anti-Racism sign next to a donate button for redcafe constitute fraud?

Successful · 6th March 2013, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybezia

What a load of rubbish... we are anti racism, sticking a sign saying that doesn't change anything?

It does make a difference. If you go to a site and you see a big nazi cross on that site it will tell you right away what the site is all about. Don't underestimate the value of symbols.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

We might has well have about 100 other causes plastered around the pages too while we are at it.

I agree it's a good cause and this isn't a terrible idea, but it's clearly in the rules here and every poster knows we are anti-racist. It's not as if anyone looks at a website without that logo and immediately thinks racism anyway.

But it's no skin off my nose either way, so if the admins deem it fit, then fair play.

Absolutely. I'm not forcing this thing on anyone. It was more like a suggestion. - Hey look at this, do you think it's something we should try to take part of?
It wasn't meant to be a We have to do this or we're screwed.

Check it out. Evaluate if it's something we want to be part of. Maybe we will be the first fan-site to join? It's not like it would be the first time we join forces with other sites. We had a partnership with some betting site not long ago.

WeasteDevil · 6th March 2013, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successful

I know we already have rules that are followed up with infractions and so on

Racism here doesn't allow for infractions, it's an outright permaban.

Jaybezia · 6th March 2013, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successful

It does make a difference. If you go to a site and you see a big nazi cross on that site it will tell you right away what the site is all about. Don't underestimate the value of symbols.

How does it make a difference? Is anyone on this site in two minds as to whether it allows or tolerates any kind of racism? Please, show of hands people?

I agree, a nazi sign would tell you immediately what the site is about, we aren't about anti-racism, we support it but this is a football forum ffs? people go so OTT nowadays its jokes...

Successful · 6th March 2013, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by W

Racism here doesn't allow for infractions, it's an outright permaban.

Good stand!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybezia

How does it make a difference? Is anyone on this site in two minds as to whether it allows or tolerates any kind of racism? Please, show of hands people?

I agree, a nazi sign would tell you immediately what the site is about, we aren't about anti-racism, we support it but this is a football forum ffs? people go so OTT nowadays its jokes...

I really don't understand why you're so upset about this. Yet you say people like me go OTT?

Yes we are a football forum, and we all know what issues are involved with football. You're only kidding yourself if you don't believe racism is present in football, and it shouldn't be tolerated in any area and that includes forums.

Jaybezia · 6th March 2013, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successful

Good stand!

I really don't understand why you're so upset about this. Yet you say people like me go OTT?

Yes we are a football forum, and we all know what issues are involved with football. You're only kidding yourself if you don't believe racism is present in football, and it shouldn't be tolerated in any area and that includes forums.

Firstly, not once have i got upset? strange comment there, and yes people like you do go OTT.

Quote:

You're only kidding yourself if you don't believe racism is present in football

I didn't say I don't believe racism is present in football, can you actually read?

Quote:

and it shouldn't be tolerated in any area and that includes forums.

And I agree, but my point is sticking a symbol at the top of the page can't achieve THAT MUCH* because of the fact that no-one is in two minds as to whether this forum condones/tolerates it.

*

Quote:

It does make a difference

your words... I wasn't trying to pedantic but you make me things up and accuse me of saying them when I didn't even say similar?

And by OTT, FWIW, I mean that everyone here knows that racism isn't tolerated. Everyone here knows that this is not a place for racism, and thirdly, everyone here knows racism is wrong. So by OTT I mean making a thread about putting a sign up the top to say we're not racist, you may as well decorate the site with anti-genderism/ anti-ageist/ anti-racist... Where does it stop? Do you need a sign in the morning to tell you to get up and get dressed? Same as people don't need a sign to say don't be racist?

Jaybezia · 6th March 2013, 14:42

I don't want this to be a tirade against you, I'm not trying to insult because I support the cause of anti-racism... I just don't see that putting a drawing at the top of the page is going to have a big effect.

JustAFan · 6th March 2013, 15:26

Steady on with the rules and enforcement we have. I doubt many would pay attention to that logo anyways. It's like the adds that appear on the pages, for the most part you just ignore them and get on with reading and posting.

Moyespopper · 6th March 2013, 15:54

Oh look we have twitter, paypal and Firefox images, I'd never noticed them.

Racism is against the forum rules and results in a ban.

I'd say that's a pretty clear and definite position, not sure a gif would add much of value.

jakec · 6th March 2013, 16:14

Because then we'd have to be nice to the Norweigens

Colin129 · 6th March 2013, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

Oh look we have twitter, paypal and Firefox images, I'd never noticed them.

Racism is against the forum rules and results in a ban.

I'd say that's a pretty clear and definite position, not sure a gif would add much of value.

Why this btw & mine says 'Donate' not 'Paypal'.

Bebe · 6th March 2013, 17:04

Successful, I think putting that logo on the site would make us responsible for holding to that organizations standards against racism. Every once in awhile you'll see jokes on here about race that are intended as nothing but amusement and are taken by forum members as such. However a charitable organization like that might take a different view, and not want to be associated with that kind of forum banter.

I think its a good idea, but it has some potential issues that we're probably better off not inviting.

Successful · 6th March 2013, 22:24

All your points are valid. I think I underestimated the forum standards we have and the legal bonaries. Maybe we're not ready to take this step right now. I appreciate the note you took on the subject and I would also like to praise the high ambitions this forum has regarding racism.

Redlambs · 6th March 2013, 23:23

We might be better off with a banner that says "The W is for Wanker extraordinaire " to inform people.

gooDevil · 6th March 2013, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

Let me know how you get on with using random copyrighted logos without consent, even charities. Especially charities.

Unite Against Racism presumably want to be seen alongside UEFA, FIFA, and the ilk. Not a internet forum that worships Scholes and doesn't serve food.

I'm glad you brought this up. When is RedCafe Foods Inc going to expand their delivery area to include southern Indiana? I'm tired of having to go to one site for my United fix and another to order a pizza.

alastair · 6th March 2013, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successful

All your points are valid. I think I underestimated the forum standards we have and the legal bonaries. Maybe we're not ready to take this step right now. I appreciate the note you took on the subject and I would also like to praise the high ambitions this forum has regarding racism.

Successful · 15th March 2013, 19:56

I've just been in contact with their organization regarding the useage of their logo and what kind of commitment is needed. They said they usually allow the their logo to be used but in this case they wanted to know a bit more about the website so I gave them a link.

I have also told them I'm not in charge of the site nor connected to anyone in charge and is just asking for information, but I would forward the information on to you if they like the idea of working together. They also know this is just being discussed and that you have some concerns over what kind of commitment would be needed.
So, they are aware of that this is not being asked for from official people of the site but a simple user.

Hopefully our website is "clean" enough and that it won't mean any changes in the way we go about our daily routines. So if we are lucky and get a positive respons I will post the information here and the people in charge can evaluate it.

To me this is a good way of showing thousands of United fans that we're engaged in making football on the pitch and internet a sport for everyone.

Hectic · 17th March 2013, 10:45

How did people not work out you were taking the complete piss?

Successful · 17th March 2013, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

How did people not work out you were taking the complete piss?

You're totally wrong on this one Hectic. I'm dead serious and I'm hoping we will be accepted by their network.

If you look at it, how could it be wrong? We connect on many areas and for them it would be a good way of reaching even more people. Perhaps we could arrange something once a year where we inform about their work. Looking at reactions on the board when Kevin-Prince Boateng was offended shows we're working towards the same goal.

And for us it would mean a lot as well. It would be a statement + maybe other sponsors would like to work with us which would mean the site would secure its funds needed to go on for years. But first of all this is of course meant to be a statement.

Hectic · 17th March 2013, 15:42

Broyphs · 17th March 2013, 16:16

RedCafe and United Against Racism?

Synergy.

Wonder Pigeon · 17th March 2013, 22:29

I think this is the opposite of when deeply closeted men act homophobic, and Successful is actually just super racist.

Successful · 20th March 2013, 12:53

Here's the results of the email conversation!

I can PM the full email conversation with the address of the contact person from Fare if you have any more questions of just don't believe I was being serious about this.

Quote:

We looked into the forum you sent us and we are pleased to let you know that you can use our logo, which I am sending you attached to this email.

We are aware of the fact that in forums very different opinions and statements can be made, but since the managers already avoid discriminatory comments we believe that our logo will give them more authority to eradicate this type of content.

The only request we have is that when you use our logo you link it through to our website, so that when people click on it they can be directed to it (http://www.farenet.org/).

Thank you for contacting us.

Regards,

Not bad right? We are now authorized to use their logo on the website! I leave it up to you people to decide whether you want to join their network by the simple commitment of keeping up our great work on the website as we normally do and promote anti-racism. I think it would be an awesome statement and a perfect step for their organisation to make.

Damien · 20th March 2013, 12:56

Can you post the logo they attached?

Jaybezia · 20th March 2013, 13:06

You have lost the absolute plot mate, sorry to say it but someone had to.. btw that email looks fake as well, very casual wording...

Zarlak · 20th March 2013, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successful

It does make a difference. If you go to a site and you see a big nazi cross on that site it will tell you right away what the site is all about. Don't underestimate the value of symbols.

Of course, but nobody ever goes to a website and upon noticing that there in fact, is not a big nazi cross thinks to themselves 'get the fuck in, I can crack some holocaust jokes.'

The same way noone looks at a website and sees it doesn't have an anti racism logo and thinks 'these guys must love racism.'

Sultan · 20th March 2013, 13:17

Quite simply, it's Niall's decision.

Successful · 20th March 2013, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

Quite simply, it's Niall's decision.

Exactly. As I said, the people in charge.

So the logo I was given looks like this:

This one is from the net, but the one I got has the same look but different size.

So, I'll just leave it from here and if you want the email conversation to verify the authenticity I will be happy to forward it on to you.

Phil · 20th March 2013, 13:51

This is really nuts.

We should get an anti theft logo too, just in case people think we condone it lads.

Carl · 20th March 2013, 14:13

That logo gives no indication it's anything to do with racism.

Fergies Gum · 20th March 2013, 14:14

Why did you not just PM a admin or Niall to ask their thoughts rather than go ahead and email them anyway without permission from anyone of authority on this site?

Also, its a bit pathetic to be honest that you went ahead and sent the email, despite most saying its a stupid idea.

Genius Me! · 20th March 2013, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

How did people not work out you were taking the complete piss?

You have to hand it to him, he knows how to not let to of a joke. (Unless he's being serious)

6th March 2013, 11:38	#1 (permalink)
Successful Straight Guy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On top of the league Posts: 4,625	Why are we not joining this initiative? Would it not be the right thing to do to try to incorporate this initiative with Redcafe? I know we already have rules that are followed up with infractions and so on, but I think we should let everyone know where we stand, not only members but people who happen to read on the site by chance. Is it anything you have discussed? There are of course other good subjects to bring up but I feel this is quite closly connected to football and it's also part of our forum philosophy and culture.

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6th March 2013, 11:52	#2 (permalink)
Successful Straight Guy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On top of the league Posts: 4,625	To be more specific I would like to see this logo at the bottom of the front page where the twitter, firefox and paypay are hosted. There's some good space there to let people know what we're all about. We're growing big now. + 50 000 users and sometimes established newpapers refer to us. It feels like a natural step to take. Not?

6th March 2013, 12:00	#3 (permalink)
Wibble In Gadus Speramus Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Centre Back Posts: 54,206	Who are they?

6th March 2013, 12:24	#7 (permalink)
Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cash has been donated to the Gary Neville for Prime Minister fund, cheers you scouse twats. Posts: 17,463	We might has well have about 100 other causes plastered around the pages too while we are at it. I agree it's a good cause and this isn't a terrible idea, but it's clearly in the rules here and every poster knows we are anti-racist. It's not as if anyone looks at a website without that logo and immediately thinks racism anyway. But it's no skin off my nose either way, so if the admins deem it fit, then fair play.

6th March 2013, 12:26	#8 (permalink)
Jaybezia lol Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ℗© Posts: 4,720	What a load of rubbish... we are anti racism, sticking a sign saying that doesn't change anything?

6th March 2013, 12:32	#9 (permalink)
rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The treble gone Posts: 23,072	Would putting an copyrighted Anti-Racism sign next to a donate button for redcafe constitute fraud?

6th March 2013, 14:42	#15 (permalink)
Jaybezia lol Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ℗© Posts: 4,720	I don't want this to be a tirade against you, I'm not trying to insult because I support the cause of anti-racism... I just don't see that putting a drawing at the top of the page is going to have a big effect.

6th March 2013, 15:26	#16 (permalink)
JustAFan First Team Sub Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA Posts: 8,804	Steady on with the rules and enforcement we have. I doubt many would pay attention to that logo anyways. It's like the adds that appear on the pages, for the most part you just ignore them and get on with reading and posting.

6th March 2013, 15:54	#17 (permalink)
Moyespopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 54,143	Oh look we have twitter, paypal and Firefox images, I'd never noticed them. Racism is against the forum rules and results in a ban. I'd say that's a pretty clear and definite position, not sure a gif would add much of value.

6th March 2013, 16:14	#18 (permalink)
jakec I'm a fecking politics student for Gods sake Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Follow me @_JakeCullen_ Posts: 21,068	Because then we'd have to be nice to the Norweigens

6th March 2013, 17:04	#20 (permalink)
Bebe Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: The true north. Posts: 2,624	Successful, I think putting that logo on the site would make us responsible for holding to that organizations standards against racism. Every once in awhile you'll see jokes on here about race that are intended as nothing but amusement and are taken by forum members as such. However a charitable organization like that might take a different view, and not want to be associated with that kind of forum banter. I think its a good idea, but it has some potential issues that we're probably better off not inviting.

6th March 2013, 22:24	#21 (permalink)
Successful Straight Guy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On top of the league Posts: 4,625	All your points are valid. I think I underestimated the forum standards we have and the legal bonaries. Maybe we're not ready to take this step right now. I appreciate the note you took on the subject and I would also like to praise the high ambitions this forum has regarding racism.

6th March 2013, 23:23	#22 (permalink)
Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cash has been donated to the Gary Neville for Prime Minister fund, cheers you scouse twats. Posts: 17,463	We might be better off with a banner that says "The W is for Wanker extraordinaire " to inform people.

15th March 2013, 19:56	#25 (permalink)
Successful Straight Guy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On top of the league Posts: 4,625	I've just been in contact with their organization regarding the useage of their logo and what kind of commitment is needed. They said they usually allow the their logo to be used but in this case they wanted to know a bit more about the website so I gave them a link. I have also told them I'm not in charge of the site nor connected to anyone in charge and is just asking for information, but I would forward the information on to you if they like the idea of working together. They also know this is just being discussed and that you have some concerns over what kind of commitment would be needed. So, they are aware of that this is not being asked for from official people of the site but a simple user. Hopefully our website is "clean" enough and that it won't mean any changes in the way we go about our daily routines. So if we are lucky and get a positive respons I will post the information here and the people in charge can evaluate it. To me this is a good way of showing thousands of United fans that we're engaged in making football on the pitch and internet a sport for everyone.

17th March 2013, 10:45	#26 (permalink)
Hectic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mike Phelan WILL kill you. Posts: 64,854	How did people not work out you were taking the complete piss?

17th March 2013, 15:42	#28 (permalink)
Hectic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mike Phelan WILL kill you. Posts: 64,854

17th March 2013, 16:16	#29 (permalink)
Broyphs No Lifer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Commas are important. "Come on, Barbie, let's go party" is much less sinister than "Come on Barbie, let's go party" Posts: 33,114	RedCafe and United Against Racism? Synergy.

17th March 2013, 22:29	#30 (permalink)
Wonder Pigeon 'Shelbourne FC Supporter' Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Forza Shelbourne Posts: 18,986	I think this is the opposite of when deeply closeted men act homophobic, and Successful is actually just super racist.

20th March 2013, 12:56	#32 (permalink)
Damien Self-Aware Redcafe Database (and poster) Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Blood. Sometimes it sets my teeth on edge; other times it helps me control the chaos. Posts: 27,566	Can you post the logo they attached?

20th March 2013, 13:06	#33 (permalink)
Jaybezia lol Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ℗© Posts: 4,720	You have lost the absolute plot mate, sorry to say it but someone had to.. btw that email looks fake as well, very casual wording...

20th March 2013, 13:17	#35 (permalink)
Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing Posts: 34,315	Quite simply, it's Niall's decision.

20th March 2013, 13:51	#37 (permalink)
Phil Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,062	This is really nuts. We should get an anti theft logo too, just in case people think we condone it lads.

20th March 2013, 14:13	#38 (permalink)
Carl Not Allowed A Hash Tag Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Formerly cw1984 Posts: 31,725	That logo gives no indication it's anything to do with racism.

20th March 2013, 14:14	#39 (permalink)
Fergies Gum First Team Sub Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 7,557	Why did you not just PM a admin or Niall to ask their thoughts rather than go ahead and email them anyway without permission from anyone of authority on this site? Also, its a bit pathetic to be honest that you went ahead and sent the email, despite most saying its a stupid idea.