FAO Red Sea

giggzy

Very bizarre thread.

So, Red Sea...who's the lass that's really a bloke?

Wibble

Yep. Kemo.

Mad as a cut snake.

Plechazunga

In what way is it nasty? Look, I appreciate it's a sensitive issue, and ideally you don't want people yelling monkey comparisons at players from the stands. I haven't read the earlier comment you're having a go at, maybe it was bang out of order, I'm not defending it and will go and have a look in a minute.

All I'm saying is, animal metaphors can be very expressive. Lots of people look like monkeys, after all we are very closely related to them. I'm sure in lots of cultures where people are in proximity to monkeys, from Japan to parts of Africa, there are monkey-style dances etc, they are a part of the culture. It's just a bit of a shame that this entire area of human imagination has been closed off by a few idiots shouting things. Still, hardly a tragedy, I can live without comparing footballers to monkeys.

Even if I did, there's nothing inherently pejorative about it when i use it. I love Giggsy, have huge admiration for Ronaldinho, and find Peter Reid amusing - they all look a bit like monkeys at times. I dislike Keown, who also looks like a monkey.

Sometimes I think you're deliberately obtuse.

redcharlie

Bang on Plech, lots of folk black and white look like monkeys.

Old Plech gets abused on a daily basis for the size of his gigantic hooter and does he throw his toys out ?

I think not.

Plech was born Jewish and has more right than most to make an issue out of it.

Thank feck he's too classy.

Like I'm really fit to back up the kid called Plech, who's just a bit special.

giggzy

I used to get called big nose in school.

I know how he feels.

Wibble

I don't know but it might well be something we would do

Deservedly so IMO

Plechazunga

I'm certainly a bit special Charlie...I'm currently posting from my rubber study

Cheers for the support. though actually I'm just saving up all the 'big-nose' insults in a file which I'm going to send to the European Court of Human Rights in an attempt to get Davo put on trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity.

giggzy

Ian Brown.

Now he's one helluva monkey.

Red Sea

I don’t see the point of making the comment, just like I would never make jokes about Jewish people. Or people with mental or physical handicaps. Obtuse maybe but I don't try to make life harder for different groups of people. What would be my pay off to give people a laugh at anothers expense!

Wibble

Why are you in invisible mode Red Sea?

redcharlie

My hooters bigger than it should be to be a true Redford lookalike.

I look like he did in the Sting btw.

Plechazunga

Come to think of it Charlie, you look a bit like a monkey

In case anyone's wondering, that comes up on Google when you type in "Robert Redford"

giggzy

Reckon you look like an elephant, Charles. A ginger one.

Red Sea

Always have been does it bother you?

Dubai_Devil

Thanks for that Pletch

giggzy

He's a poof. It's friggin obvious.

Not that I'm homophobic or anything.

redcharlie

Nah Plech , wish I did look a bit more like a monkey.

I'm your standard Nordic, unfortunately.

Wibble

No. Should it?

I was just thinking that you like throwing the "coward" tag around and wondered if it applied only to people who allegedly have two id's with the sole purpose of winding you up?

If you don't tell us what the problem is (by pm for privacy if you want) how can you expect us to do anything. Which in turn makes you look a bit silly complaining about something when you won't act to sort it out.

Plechazunga

I'll tell you what the point of the comment was, and maybe it's one of the areas you and I differ. I guess I like complication. I think it makes things interesting. I dislike pious simplification as much as racism (though I think the two are connected).

I disagreed with you that it's inherently racist to compare someone to a monkey if they happen to be black...it's about intent. Though I agree it obviously is a touchy area.

There are thousands upon thousands of wonderful jokes about Jewish people. If you ever feel like making one, be my guest mate...if it's "How do you kill a Jew?" "Chuck a penny under a bus" I might think it's a bit of a crass piece of racism (though I can still see the humour in it)...but of course not all jokes about Jews are racist.

It is, of course, a complex area...doesn't mean it just deserves a blanket ban on conversation though. Nor does it make me racist - though again, as discussed on here before, I'd never claim to be entirely free of racism (if that's even possible).

But no, you've busted me mate...my raison d'etre is to make the lives of minorities difficult. In fact I'm gonna have to call a halt to this discussion as there's a tour group of haemophiliac Inuits in town tomorrow and I have to go and deflate the tyres on their minibus...

Wibble

Kinell Pletch. Can we keep the photos within the bounds of what passes for decency on the Caf?

Red Sea

No please check my IP address and everyone who has ever posted you will see 1 login name. And if I had more than one loin name do you not think I would have more people agreeing with me. Although some clown might start pretending now!

I would never ever ever lower myself to a coward status and have more than 1 login. If it meant the whole board hated me, so what at least I can take that. i can also say whatever I ever say on the internet I would say face to face!

I can live with that!

Plechazunga

I had posted a picture of Redford with his nob out, and a hairy chest. Unfortunately some prudish, upward-tone-at-end-of-sentence type mod seems to have deleted it.

Plechazunga

It's gonna take more than a load of login names to get people to start agreeing with you RS...

Plechazunga

Aye sorry Wibs...what happened was, i decided to tell Chaz he looks like a monkey...since he looks like Robert Redford, I then decided to find a picture of Redford looking like a monkey...and within a second of searching, had found one of him with a hairy chest and a large flaccid penis...er, and obviously at that point could not refrain from posting it.

Am a bit of a tw@, sorry...

On the bright side, at least I'm not Red Sea under a different login

Wibble

Be careful mate. There may be a penny under it.

Red Sea

I think questioning things is GREAT but to do so in a meaningful way. A big nose (I also have one although its also been broken for years) is an insult or a fact it may even indicate a religion. A monkey implicitly indicates a backward step in evolution, not as intelligent a bit thick.

And talking about Jewish jokes does not make it ok to insult others. You and numerous others can insult me until the cows come home its water off a ducks back, I really could not care. However I’m not sensitive, but I know others who are and to be fair as a kid I was and do not want to make people feel bad. If that makes me obtuse or whatever i can live with it, in the 1970s I campaigned against racism and i was in the minority and took an awful lot of abuse.

Although I agree it is impossible not to be racist even in a minor way that makes it all the more reason to fight what I know to be right from wrong

Plechazunga

Don't tempt me...

redcharlie

Im a ringer for Redford and have the hairy chest to boot... if that's not monkeyish..........

Wibble

You missed my point. Some people use the invisible mode as some sort of defence mechanism when they post. Some have called it cowardly before. I for one don't see what difference it makes but WTF.

So who is the multiple peronality who is casing trouble?

Wibble

If that was flaccid then I for one am impressed.

Should I have gone up at the end of that sentence?

Red Sea

In that case I must be a coward!

Plechazunga

Alright. So the issues are, What constitutes racism? and If something is not racist, but could be interpreted as such, is it wrong to say it?

Now tell me how you could possibly interpret what I said before as racist. I admitted it was probably too sensitive an area to go around just calling whoever you like simian. But what i said was very different from that. Any black person, or a person afflicted with high sensitivity like yourself, should be able to see from the context that I was not being derogatory towards black people. If they can't, they're too stupid to understand the conversation and can feck off.

It's one thing being very careful about language. It's another censoring language, maintaining that ANY use of a particular term or metaphor or whatever is WRONG. For instance, if a ballet reviewer wrote a glowing review of a black dancer, in which they praised his sophistication, intelligence, genius etc., then went on to say he was "as sleek as a cat, as nimble as a monkey, as graceful as a flamingo" or some such guff, should we castigate the cnut for racism? What about if they're black themselves. It's complicated.

Well done fighting racism in the seventies and all that, must've taken some guts. But that was only the beginning of the battle - fighting against raw bigotry. Surely the fight can only be won when people stop having to censor their speech, thus differentiating between people of different colour. When if someone thinks Sean Wright-Phillips looks like a chimp (which he does, as does George Bush, as doesn't, say, Ainsley Harriot, or Hasselbaink, or Dr Dre), they can say so. Course we're not there yet, but talking about the complications involved might help, shouting everyone down as racist doesn't.

By the way, monkeys aren't a backward step in evolution from humans. We didn't evolve from monkeys and all living monkeys are just as evolved as we are.