Supporting England

zain

The England team visited an orphanage in Cape Town today. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope" said Jamal aged 6.

Sam.G

How do you mean, Mike? You can't understand the logic of supporting the country you were born in? Is it not just an extension of supporting the town/city you were born in?

I heard Phil Neville on the radio the other day referring to 'Stevie G'. He also said Carragher has been the best defender in the country for the past 6 years.

He knows a thing or two does our Phil.

Mockney

Phil once told MUTV that Fergie gets all the team "fighting from the same brush"....knows a thing or two does our Phil.

Sam.G

Yep. Looks and brains.

The complete package.

MikeUpNorth

I don't see it that way. Most people nowadays don't support a club team because of where they happened to be born, they support it because of how they were bought up or who they had the opportunity to go and watch when they were young, or just a random/not-so-random choice.

We live in a world where people move all over the place; we aren't all divided up into neat packets of ethnicity/nationality, and that is undoubtedly a good thing. But that globalisation makes international sport kind of redundant in my opinion. It's become completely arbitrary, so nationalistic fervour seems strange to me.

I don't really have a national identity myself. Perhaps that comes from living in England all my life but having a Welsh family.

Mockney

Mikey P wishes he was Chinese really.

noodlehair

Except this isn't what I actually said, at all. You've warped what I've said, which was supposed to be a pretty harmless point of view, and then claimed I've got a warped view of what I'm saying, all whilst taking YOUR interpretation of it as a huge personal attack on you, and responding in kind...I don't care if you support England or not. It makes feck all difference to anything. Do whatever you want.

I tell you what though. I wont post anything anymore without your prior consent and approval. In case it differs slightly from your opinion or offends you in some horrible way.

Fecking hell...England fans

Force of Nature

I feel the same as Mike, you have no control over where you where born, yet for the rest of your life you are labelled because of it, I find it quite annoying actually, especially when it means so little and you may not like the place you where born in. I never understood why I should support someone I never met, and who I probably have never nothing important in common with just because they were born in the same area as me.

Having a tournament base on what eye colour people have makes about as much sense to me.

As for Phil, he's clearly gone a bit mental.

Mockney

well it is though....isn't it? What exactly did you say then? Was it subtextual?

You can post whatever you want noods, and I'll continue to bring you up on it if it's utter bollocks...as I'm sure you would if I started a needless thread telling everyone why I wanted United to lose because our fans deserved it for being mongs...I can't really see why you're so surprised at my reaction. The fact that there's already so many threads containing the same old dated lazy Ing-er-land fans are knobs content already, and that a moderator and poster I like really felt the need to add another one, riled me up to a high enough degree to respond as I did. And it is an attack/insult to me, and the vast majority of fans out here and back home who aren't knobs, who have dressed up, brought their familes, bantered with the locals and sung their hearts out to be continuously bound to this crass and lazy legacy

Fecking hell...United fans.

Finland till I die

Sam.G

Fair enough. But a lot of people from a lot of countries have a strong - or at least a - sense or patriotism and culture. That you and Mike don't is not norm in my experience.

Do you not support any national team at any sport? Do you watch any international sport? Cricket, Olympics, rugby etc?

esmufc12

We generalise groups of people all the time based on the few things we see. I saw a black mean stealing the other day and came to the conclusion that all black men are thieves.

noodlehair

It's probably because I've grown up supporting United. I don't know any other way, and it's not as hyperbowl as England when the world cup comes around.

I supported England just the same when I was younger, but it does get to a point when the sillyness just gets a bit much, and then you start noticing the less shiney side of the coin that you could easily ignore before, and there's not really any turning off from it since unlike with UNited, it's al over the papers, tv...everywhere.

I don't have any real sense of patriotism, other than considering myself lucky to have been born here, so I don't really "get" it at the best of times anymore.

I just found myself genuinely wanting England to do well this time around, and thought I could ignore all the shite and get back into it, but apparently not...I thought this was a harmless enough point of view. I wish I hadn't bothered saying anything now though, having incurred the wrath of Mockney.

Mockney

I think you should come to a World Cup noods...you would unquestionably have your opinion changed. The atmosphere and fandom completely surpasses anything domestic football has to offer in a condensed and encompassing way...which may be some of the reason the furore gets so extreme...That, and that i's rarer being every four (or two) years,

And the national media is the national media...If Manchester was in fact it's own separate country with it's own TV, Newspapers etc (I know all regions have that...but also have the national ones, which are clearly more popular) then the same over-riding devotion would be visited on United and City. It's completely sensible for the national media to be wholley devoted to the national team coverage more than disparate club teams...and just as much scapegoating and mongness goes on on these boards every day regarding United.... Plus almost every country does it. It's hardly only England. No one even works in Brazil when they play in a WC.

If you don't really get that..fair enough. I can certainly see why it could get annoying...I hate our media, but I don't hold anyone else but the media responsible for that...It's just so needless to be so vocally anti it all. And it's just such a lazy observation that England fans are mongs....and no more right than with any other set of fans proportionally. Technically, we have more great fans than any club side....but that's not cool enough to point out.

Force of Nature

Oh I'm not having a go at them, they have every right to support their country. In many ways I don't understand it but at the same time I can see where they are coming from, as long as they don't take patriotism to the extreme, which very few do.

No I don't support them in any sport, I do watch international football, the Olympics and rugby because I either love or like the sports themselves. I tend not to support anyone, in football I just support United players and teams who play good football, not with any great passion though. Not much I can do to change the world's view on nationalism, so I might as well enjoy the benefits that come with it, such as football tournaments.

noodlehair

I actually was planning to come over for some of it, but couldn't juggle work, family etc. and have time to fit it in. My assistant Stuart is flying out there with a couple of my mates tomorrow though...

Here he is in Disneyland earlier this year;



and I suspect if I was there, it'd be great fun, I'd get behind the team (even if it was just for the hell of it), and if there was any twattishness, just ignore it and basically spend the whole time having a laugh and getting as drunk as possible. So yeah, you're probably right in that sense.

But the fact of the matter is I'm stuck here, fastforwarding through games when I get home from work, reading News of the World articles, and listening to Andy Townsend's expert views about how England "must try harder"...which, in comparison, isn't such great fun (you lucky git)

Mockney

Well all is forgiven and what not...

Is that spire supposed to be going up it's arse?

noodlehair

He doesn't have an arse. Otherwise, yes