United's penalty-takers

Pogue Mahone · 17th April 2008, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

No.

Ok.

But you did say this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Left footers usually don't have variety in where they hit their penalties and hence are easier for keepers to read.

Which means you clearly believe that a penalty which is easier to read is no less likely to score than one which is well disguised.

And that, my friend, is utter madness.

Cornell · 17th April 2008, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

then tell us Poque, why keepers don't keep out every penalty whose direction they correctly follow?

Dear fucking god.

No one is saying they will definately save a predictably hit penalty. It just becomes easier since they have an idea where it's going.

You are saying a predictably hit penalty isn't easier to save, which is fucking stupid.

robthered · 17th April 2008, 09:20

Ah I didn't see the more recent strand of the argument there.

Well in light of the new direction this bizarre argument has taken I've had a better look at the figures in the study from before;

Left footed kicker is read by the goalkeeper 45.8%

Right footed kicker.........

wait for it..........

48.4% of the time.

Interestingly enough within those figures goalkeepers choices reflected what 'footed' the kicker was, choosing to dive left for a 'leftie' 29.3% of the time and 32.1% of the time on the right for a 'rightie'.

Left footed players score more the righties when shooting to their weak side.

Total % for lefties from 406 pens = 81.0%
Total % for righties from 1011 pens = 79.8%

I'm no expert on stats but i think we can conclude from this that we are, as usual, arguing about nothing.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornell

I don't agree with with much of what you've said Chief.

I'm arguing why if you think left footers are easier to read (Which I don't think they are), then they aren't inferior penalty takers.

If a goalkeeper knew Ronaldo was going bottom left every time, you'd see more shots saved than are now.

If a keeper dives in the direction of penalty it clearly means he read where it was headed. But that obviously doesn't mean he will stop or get near it. Thus since Ronaldo always hits his penalties with the right amount of power, keepers are not likely to ever stop them. Even if he was to pick the same spot all the time.

Sultan · 17th April 2008, 09:25

Give up!

Chief's Rule:

WHOEVER CONFRONTS THE CHIEF WITH AN IDEA OF HIS OWN, MUST LEAVE WITH THE CHIEF'S IDEA.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornell

Dear fucking god.

No one is saying they will definately save a predictably hit penalty. It just becomes easier since they have an idea where it's going.

That's just fucking stupid. It doens't matter if you have an idea. If the taker does his job you wont have a prayer as a keeper. Any one who has taken penalties or tried saving them knows this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornell

You are saying a predictably hit penalty isn't easier to save, which is fucking stupid.

Then why haven't keepers who go in the right direction a penalty is hit been, more often than not, able to keep them all or most of them out?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

......

Which means you clearly believe that a penalty which is easier to read is no less likely to score than one which is well disguised.

And that, my friend, is utter madness.

Only to some one who has no inkling about the art and science of penalty taking.

reddevilcanada · 17th April 2008, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

Give up!

Chief's Rule:

WHOEVER CONFRONTS THE CHIEF WITH AN IDEA OF HIS OWN, MUST LEAVE WITH THE CHIEF'S IDEA.

That's the RubberRule!

Sultan · 17th April 2008, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

If a keeper dives in the direction of penalty it clearly means he read where it was headed. But that obviously doesn't mean he will stop or get near it. Thus since Ronaldo always hits his penalties with the right amount of power, keepers are not likely to ever stop them. Even if he was to pick the same spot all the time.

If left footers are so predictable, why don't the goalkeepers stand slightly towards the predictable side, instead of the middle?

That way it makes no difference how hard the penalty has been hit, surely his chances of saving it increases.

Pogue Mahone · 17th April 2008, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Then why haven't keepers who go in the right direction a penalty is hit been, more often than not, been able to keep them out?

If a keeper goes in the right direction he will save a higher proportion of penalties than he does when he goes the wrong way, that's for sure.

This simple fact seems to have escaped you somewhat.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 17th April 2008, 09:31

I am probably the best penalty taker in the world. Never missed one.

Cornell · 17th April 2008, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

That's just fucking stupid. It doens't matter if you have an idea. If the taker does his job you wont have a prayer as a keeper. Any one who has taken penalties or tried saving them knows this.

Then why haven't keepers who go in the right direction a penalty is hit been, more often than not, been able to keep them out?

If a keeper goes the right way it's not neccesarily because he knew the taker would hit it that way.

A penalty isn't predictable just 'cause the keeper jumps the right way.

Wibble · 17th April 2008, 09:33

I haven't missed one in about 30 years.

Sultan · 17th April 2008, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

I haven't missed on inabout 30 years.

That's cos you've never taken one

Bury Red · 17th April 2008, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

I haven't missed one in about 30 years.

What help is that in the Chief's analysis if you don't tell us whether you're a leftie or a rightie Wibbs.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 17th April 2008, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

That's cos you've never taken one

I have.

never had before I went to Uni though. The manager asked for a new penalty taker before the season started, and I volunteered on the basis of never having missed one...

Wibble · 17th April 2008, 09:37

There is that

Pat_Mustard · 17th April 2008, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by robthered

Ah I didn't see the more recent strand of the argument there.

Well in light of the new direction this bizarre argument has taken I've had a better look at the figures in the study from before;

Left footed kicker is read by the goalkeeper 45.8%

Right footed kicker.........

wait for it..........

48.4% of the time.

Interestingly enough within those figures goalkeepers choices reflected what 'footed' the kicker was, choosing to dive left for a 'leftie' 29.3% of the time and 32.1% of the time on the right for a 'rightie'.

Left footed players score more the righties when shooting to their weak side.

Total % for lefties from 406 pens = 81.0%
Total % for righties from 1011 pens = 79.8%

I'm no expert on stats but i think we can conclude from this that we are, as usual, arguing about nothing.

Which would entirely contradict the Chief's main argument, unless I'm missing something.

Bury Red · 17th April 2008, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat_Mustard

Which would entirely contradict the Chief's main argument, unless I'm missing something.

You are, you seem to forget that the Chief is infallible.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornell

If a keeper goes the right way it's not neccesarily because he knew the taker would hit it that way.

A keeper almost always goes in the right direction because he read that the penalty was headed there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornell

A penalty isn't predictable just 'cause the keeper jumps the right way.

Very few keepers a just "jump the right way". You are assuming keepers merely gamble and go in a direction. Probably because you think penalty taking is some sort of lottery. Which would explain why you can't understand me at all.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bury Red

You are, you seem to forget that the Chief is infallible.

As if that is remotely possible.

Bury Red · 17th April 2008, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

As if that is remotely possible.

I expected you to jump the other way. You're not a left footer by any chance are you?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

If a keeper goes in the right direction he will save a higher proportion of penalties than he does when he goes the wrong way, that's for sure.

So? That doesn't answer my question to you? Why don't keepers who dive in the right direction of a penalty almost always keep them out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

This simple fact seems to have escaped you somewhat.

That's just another lame attempt by you to skirt away from the issue at hand. Answer the question I put to you. Dont cook up stupid lies like the one above. I haven said any where that if a keeper goes in the right direction he will not save a higher proportion of penalties than if he does in the opposite direction. That is not even a topic that can even be debated.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

If left footers are so predictable, why don't the goalkeepers stand slightly towards the predictable side, instead of the middle?

Because that would be dumb, Sultan. The keeper is not supposed to create a wider area for the taker to score. That is why the keeper will always be in the middle of the goal! Even when he knows where the taker is about to place his spot kick. Doing other wise would be utterly unproffessional

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan

That way it makes no difference how hard the penalty has been hit, surely his chances of saving it increases.

That is wrong because his chances of saving it can't increase by any serious margin with fore knowledge. Because he has to stand in the middle of the goal. Or he will simply make it too easy for the taker. Thus knowing where the taker will place his shot doesn't help him that much if at all. Especially if the taker hits the ball with the perfect amount of power & accuracy thus rendering the penalty unsaveable.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th April 2008, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bury Red

I expected you to jump the other way. You're not a left footer by any chance are you?

I'm two footed

Cornell · 17th April 2008, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

That is wrong because his chances of saving it can't increase by any serious margin with fore knowledge. Because he has to stand in the middle of the goal. Or he will simply make it too easy for the taker. Thus knowing where the taker will place his shot doesn't help him that much if at all. Especially if the taker hits the ball with the perfect amount of power & accuracy thus rendering the penalty unsaveable.

I think if you were a keeper, the fact you knew where the ball was going and knowing 100% you were going to dive a certain direction would increase the chance of saving it by a serious margin.

Sultan · 17th April 2008, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Because that would be dumb, Sultan. The keeper is not supposed to create a wider area for the taker to score. That is why the keeper will always be in the middle of the goal! Even when he knows where the taker is about to place his spot kick. Doing other wise would be utterly unproffessional

That is wrong because his chances of saving it can't increase by any serious margin with fore knowledge. Because he has to stand in the middle of the goal. Or he will simply make it too easy for the taker. Thus knowing where the taker will place his shot doesn't help him that much if at all. Especially if the taker hits the ball with the perfect amount of power & accuracy thus rendering the penalty unsaveable.

The professional thing to do is save the penalty. If as you say Lefties are mostly predictable, I would expect a goalkeeper to stand slightly to the predictable side to increase his chances of saving the spot kick.

Chapster · 17th April 2008, 10:29

Penalties are a skill for the taker
but more like a lottery for the goalie

hence even if they guess right or 'read' right they mightn ot save it.

keepers diving one way or the other are most likely just playing the percentages based on the waht foot the kicker uses and what they've learnt from studying the penalty taker's technique on video

17th April 2008, 09:20	#323 (permalink)
robthered Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: PhD Purgatory Posts: 1,554	Ah I didn't see the more recent strand of the argument there. Well in light of the new direction this bizarre argument has taken I've had a better look at the figures in the study from before; Left footed kicker is read by the goalkeeper 45.8% Right footed kicker......... wait for it.......... 48.4% of the time. Interestingly enough within those figures goalkeepers choices reflected what 'footed' the kicker was, choosing to dive left for a 'leftie' 29.3% of the time and 32.1% of the time on the right for a 'rightie'. Left footed players score more the righties when shooting to their weak side. Total % for lefties from 406 pens = 81.0% Total % for righties from 1011 pens = 79.8% I'm no expert on stats but i think we can conclude from this that we are, as usual, arguing about nothing.

17th April 2008, 09:25	#325 (permalink)
Sultan Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Top Red Posts: 14,761	Give up! Chief's Rule: WHOEVER CONFRONTS THE CHIEF WITH AN IDEA OF HIS OWN, MUST LEAVE WITH THE CHIEF'S IDEA.

17th April 2008, 09:31	#331 (permalink)
CnutOfAllCnuts Bald Boring Cnut Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 17,756	I am probably the best penalty taker in the world. Never missed one.

17th April 2008, 09:33	#333 (permalink)
Wibble Teeth like a reindeer. Hung like a horse. Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Ingadus Speramus Posts: 33,631	I haven't missed one in about 30 years.

17th April 2008, 09:37	#337 (permalink)
Wibble Teeth like a reindeer. Hung like a horse. Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Ingadus Speramus Posts: 33,631	There is that

17th April 2008, 10:29	#348 (permalink)
Chapster Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,374	Penalties are a skill for the taker but more like a lottery for the goalie hence even if they guess right or 'read' right they mightn ot save it. keepers diving one way or the other are most likely just playing the percentages based on the waht foot the kicker uses and what they've learnt from studying the penalty taker's technique on video