Gta IV

Dr. Dwayne · 11th April 2008, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

1080p now.

So in theory every game on the system can be scaled up to 1080p, although I've heard a couple of games (quake4 for one) have problems. I don't know why though, I've never bothered to read into it.

that's pretty interesting. how does the system do that?

Redlambs · 11th April 2008, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

that's pretty interesting. how does the system do that?

http://www.ctoforaday.com/articles/000055.html

Is an old, but interesting read. Also, it's not my area of expertise or interest, so maybe Weaste will pop in and explain it better than me.

Oh, on a side note, upscaling an image to 1080p isn't the same as actually rendering at 1080p, at last count there were 3 native 1080p 360 games (there's much more now, I'm sure). I don't know about on the PS3 though, again you'll have to ask Weaste. It can be done on that system too, but don't expect it to become standard on either system.

Dr. Dwayne · 11th April 2008, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

http://www.ctoforaday.com/articles/000055.html

Is an old, but interesting read. Also, it's not my area of expertise or interest, so maybe Weaste will pop in and explain it better than me.

Oh, on a side note, upscaling an image to 1080p isn't the same as actually rendering at 1080p, at last count there were 3 native 1080p 360 games (there's much more now, I'm sure). I don't know about on the PS3 though, again you'll have to ask Weaste. It can be done on that system too, but don't expect it to become standard on either system.

yeah, it seems to me that it would be lacking a little something.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is the only game I've played that did a native 1080p on the PS3. I've noticed a couple of others but I forget what they were.

Dr. Dwayne · 11th April 2008, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

http://www.ctoforaday.com/articles/000055.html

Is an old, but interesting read. Also, it's not my area of expertise or interest, so maybe Weaste will pop in and explain it better than me.

just read most of it, the resoluition stuff at the end sounds like a freaking nightmare. I'm not knocking anything, but I am much happier to be running my PS3 on a 1080p HDTV using an HDMI cable.

Redlambs · 11th April 2008, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

just read most of it, the resoluition stuff at the end sounds like a freaking nightmare. I'm not knocking anything, but I am much happier to be running my PS3 on a 1080p HDTV using an HDMI cable.

Yep, it can be quite a mind-fuck!

At the end of the day, both systems are reasonably evenly matched. 3rd party games will tend to look and play almost identical, with maybe slight differences to lighting and contrast (plus in a lot of early instances the 360 does have slightly less framerate drops). It's the 1st party titles where there will be differences at the peak of the consoles lives, and even then what one will have better, the other will do something else better.

They are the closest powered rival systems I've known.

Dr. Dwayne · 11th April 2008, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

Yep, it can be quite a mind-fuck!

At the end of the day, both systems are reasonably evenly matched. 3rd party games will tend to look and play almost identical, with maybe slight differences to lighting and contrast (plus in a lot of early instances the 360 does have slightly less framerate drops). It's the 1st party titles where there will be differences at the peak of the consoles lives, and even then what one will have better, the other will do something else better.

They are the closest powered rival systems I've known.

indeed. it's something to look forward to.

Redlambs · 11th April 2008, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

indeed. it's something to look forward to.

Final Fantasy on the PS3 should be something to behold. Makes me sad that the likes of Rare have gone a bit shit since joining MS (actually it started before that, but that's another story), they used to be the best at pushing the envelope of what a system could do!

WeasteDevil · 11th April 2008, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is the only game I've played that did a native 1080p on the PS3. I've noticed a couple of others but I forget what they were.

Frame buffer was 1080p in that it was 1080 vertical pixels. It was not however 1920 wide (Full HD - 1080p and Full HD 1920x1080 are not the same), it was scaled horizontally. Off hand, I think the native rendering resolution was 960x1080. GT:HD was 1440x1080 scaled to 1920x1080, GT5:Prologue is 1280x1080 scaled to 1920x1080 - it's 2xAA at this resolution and 4xAA at 1280x720. 1080 vertical resolution is important for racers IMO. It's a tradeoff between bandwidth and memory available on the system, and target framerate.

1080 can be done, but I cannot see many doing it at 60fps for example. Rachet and Clank is 1280x720 at a rock solid 60fps - it's obvious that they could do that game at 1920x1080 if they pulled the framerate down to 30fps. As time goes on, I think that you will see more PS3 games that do 1920x1080, but they will need to get to know the most out of the Cell first, because RSX isn't going to do that on its own. I doubt that we will ever see it from developers that are not 1st or 2nd party developers to Sony.

vanthaman · 11th April 2008, 20:49

http://www.libertycityradio.net

some info on the radio stations

WTKK and the Mens Room will be the best ones i reckon

WeasteDevil · 11th April 2008, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

Of course not, but every single game MUST at least support 720p, since it's the resolution both the 360 and PS3 render in. Every 360 game can be scaled up to 1080p since the upgrade.

This is wrong, not every game must be 720p if the developer sucks enough MS cock. COD4 is 600p, and Halo 3 is similar for example. PS3 does not have a true hardware scaler (it has something but it's not what you may think it is), XB360 does.

Ronaldo No.9 · 11th April 2008, 21:13

It seems Tesco is still taking pre-orders for the game.

WeasteDevil · 11th April 2008, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

drat. I was hoping for some 1080p to get one over on the X-Boxers.

Looks like you are going to be in luck.

Redlambs · 11th April 2008, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeasteDevil

Frame buffer was 1080p in that it was 1080 vertical pixels. It was not however 1920 wide (Full HD - 1080p and Full HD 1920x1080 are not the same), it was scaled horizontally. Off hand, I think the native rendering resolution was 960x1080. GT:HD was 1440x1080 scaled to 1920x1080, GT5:Prologue is 1280x1080 scaled to 1920x1080 - it's 2xAA at this resolution and 4xAA at 1280x720. 1080 vertical resolution is important for racers IMO. It's a tradeoff between bandwidth and memory available on the system, and target framerate.

1080 can be done, but I cannot see many doing it at 60fps for example. Rachet and Clank is 1280x720 at a rock solid 60fps - it's obvious that they could do that game at 1920x1080 if they pulled the framerate down to 30fps. As time goes on, I think that you will see more PS3 games that do 1920x1080, but they will need to get to know the most out of the Cell first, because RSX isn't going to do that on its own. I doubt that we will ever see it from developers that are not 1st or 2nd party developers to Sony.

GT5 is native 1080? That's quite clever, although the very nature of driving games means you can get away with pushing more. As for the scaling, it's interesting to see why Sony didn't really go down that route. I know they were heavily pushing "true HD", but it still seems wierd, especially as I assume it scales DVD?

As you well know, I take framerate as king, so 720p with AA and stuff like HDR suits me perfectly. 1080p is nice, but then again it's not worth the cost.

GE · 11th April 2008, 21:45

GE · 11th April 2008, 21:45

GE · 11th April 2008, 21:46

2 NEW VIDEOS!!!

WeasteDevil · 11th April 2008, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

GT5 is native 1080? That's quite clever, although the very nature of driving games means you can get away with pushing more. As for the scaling, it's interesting to see why Sony didn't really go down that route. I know they were heavily pushing "true HD", but it still seems wierd, especially as I assume it scales DVD?

As you well know, I take framerate as king, so 720p with AA and stuff like HDR suits me perfectly. 1080p is nice, but then again it's not worth the cost.

1080p was required for Blu-ray. Cell scales the DVDs - scaling is something it can do with its eyes shut, hands tied behind its back, and its cock in a vice. Release PS3s could not upscale DVD by the way, it was added with a firmware update. The RSX we know has a horizontal scaler (at launch this was not available through the SDK), but it requires the frame buffer to be easily dividable into 1920. So as far as I remember, 960, 1280, 1440 are supported.

I think the first well known Sony franchise that will render Full HD natively at 60fps is Wipeout HD.

Redlambs · 11th April 2008, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeasteDevil

1080p was required for Blu-ray. Cell scales the DVDs - scaling is something it can do with its eyes shut, hands tied behind its back, and its cock in a vice. Release PS3s could not upscale DVD by the way, it was added with a firmware update. The RSX we know has a horizontal scaler (at launch this was not available through the SDK), but it requires the frame buffer to be easily dividable into 1920. So as far as I remember, 960, 1280, 1440 are supported.

I think the first well known Sony franchise that will render Full HD natively at 60fps is Wipeout HD.

Driving games I would expect to start hitting true native HD first, since they have a whole lot less going on. I guess like I said to Dwayne, it will only start to get interesting over the next 18months when the 1st party teams really get to grips.

But then as per usual, by that time we'll be hearing about the next wave of machines

WeasteDevil · 11th April 2008, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlambs

But then as per usual, by that time we'll be hearing about the next wave of machines

An interesting and bizarre thought here is why Sony put a gigabit ethernet port on the PS3. IBM did a demo using 3 PS3s connected in this way to get basic realtime raytracing going, each PS3 doing 1/3rd of the image. You can probably guess where I'm going with this speculation, no matter how strange an idea it may be. Did Sony really expect the PS3 to be used in render farms instead of their Cell board?

GE · 11th April 2008, 22:23

I just read on the GTA forums, there will be ATM machines in the game

If you get caught by the police then you'll lose all the money on hand (Or some). So to keep it safe, you put it in your bank, then take it out the ATM machines when you need it.

vanthaman · 11th April 2008, 22:44

cool, but the important thing we want to know is, can we rob the ATM machines

Redlambs · 11th April 2008, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeasteDevil

An interesting and bizarre thought here is why Sony put a gigabit ethernet port on the PS3. IBM did a demo using 3 PS3s connected in this way to get basic realtime raytracing going, each PS3 doing 1/3rd of the image. You can probably guess where I'm going with this speculation, no matter how strange an idea it may be. Did Sony really expect the PS3 to be used in render farms instead of their Cell board?

Well with them, anything is possible!

Ivor Ballokov · 12th April 2008, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldo No.9

It seems Tesco is still taking pre-orders for the game.

Cheers for that mate. Just pre ordered mine.

RedDevil#26655 · 12th April 2008, 15:42

just pre-ordered mine from amazon estimated delivery is may 9th-15th i think said, but before when iv pre-ordered from there it said the same thing but came on release day....so fingers crossed.

Ronaldo No.9 · 13th April 2008, 00:40

Could GTA IV disappoint?

Not everything is bigger and better. We debate 12 potential flaws

Quite a long read, but an interesting one.

________________________________________________

You've heard the hype. Grand Theft Auto IV is going to be amazing... monumental... revolutionary... life changing... world altering... universe shifting... the best game of the year, if not the best thing in the history of EVER.

Or is it...?!

Well, yes, probably. GTA IV, however, won't be perfect. Even now, more than two weeks ahead of release, we can predict a dozen reasons the sequel might bug you, bother you or just plain disappoint you. Some are legitimate and some are stupidly nitpicky, but for fans accustomed to the absolute best, all merit and deserve discussion. Recalibrate your expectations accordingly...

-------------------------------------------------------

#1 - The sandbox has shrunk

With each entry in the Grand Theft Auto series, the world gets a little bigger. Okay, a LOT bigger. Part of the feverish excitement in waiting for a new installment has always been the question "How friggin' ginormous can they make it this time?" We got a city. We got a state. Now, nothing less than an entire country, continent or planet will do!

GTA IV, however, is actually smaller than San Andreas and includes only one measly metropolis. One! Call us spoiled, but size matters.

Why it doesn't matter

Just because the world is tinier doesn’t mean it will feel that way. What GTA IV lacks in pure scale, the game makes up for with sheer, overwhelming detail. Take a look at any screenshot and count how many unique signs, stores, landmarks and landscapes you notice. The dead space of San Andreas is nonexistent. When every single street is a new adventure, who needs a whole country?

------------------------------------------------------

#2 - Liberty City... again?

News flash, Rockstar: America contains more than five cities. Why, from what we hear, they even have cities outside the US now! Some of them are apparently even pretty famous. Chicago? New Orleans? Paris? Tokyo? Any of these ring a bell? Could we at least go to Carcer City finally?

Don't be silly. Let's head back to Liberty City, the fictional fetishization of New York City, for the SIXTH time. Maybe we'll get to drive a taxi!

Why it doesn't matter

Forget the Liberty City you thought you knew. This isn't the same place explored in five previous incarnations. This isn't a generically gritty burg or a barely recognizable amalgamation of three totally separate locations. This is the real deal. For the first time, Liberty City looks like New York. It feels like New York. If the 360 and PS3 had some kind of olfactory sensors, Liberty City would smell like New York. While the name isn't fresh, the experience promises to be.

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#3 - You won't recognize the music

Vice City had Michael Jackson, Ozzy Osbourne, Luther Vandross and Run-D.M.C. San Andreas had 2Pac, Willie Nelson, Depeche Mode, Guns N' Roses and The Who. Turn to any radio station at any time... you're bound to hear something you know and pretty likely to hear something you love.

From what's been announced officially, what's featured in trailers and what we've caught during our demos, the songs in GTA IV are more... eclectic. In other words, we don't recognize a damn one of them. Eastern European pop, Jamaican dancehall and Afrobeat? We already miss V-Rock.

Why it doesn't matter

Grand Theft Auto has grown beyond the predictable playlist of a college '80s or '90s party. The soundtrack in GTA IV won't be another collection of past hits because it has the potential to showcase a collection of future hits. Stuff that is unrecognizable due to originality, not quality. And if you discover a new track you really dig, you can even download it immediately via Amazon. How neat is that?

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#4 - You won't recognize the controls

You've read about the vehicles in GTA IV... how they're supposed to handle more authentically than before. Sounds good, right? Well, you may change your mind when the only available car in sight is the gaming equivalent of a Ford Pinto and simply smashing the handbrake button no longer results in beautiful turns. With extra realism comes extra sensitivity and, inevitably, extra frustration.

Why it doesn't matter

Come on, the driving in previous GTA games sucked. Like an armless man learning to play the clarinet with his feet, however, we persevered until we mastered those controls. Now we may have to relearn some of them, but won't it be nice to have our arms back?

--------------------------------------------------

#5 - The plot's not as fun

You've heard the quote. GTA IV isn't a story of "rags to riches," merely a story of "rags to slightly better rags." In other words, you won't be climbing the career ladder from low level thug to criminal kingpin anymore. Unfortunately, the kingpins are the guys who can afford all the mansions, sports cars, girlfriends, henchmen, casinos and porn studios. You know - all the good stuff. If we wanted to spend 40+ hours working towards "slightly better rags," we'd... well, we'd just keep working at GamesRadar, thanks.

Why it doesn't matter

Vice City and San Andreas are big and bombastic, sure, but they're also over-the-top fantasy, with scenes stolen almost directly out of movies like Scarface and Boyz n the Hood. The latest GTA is attempting to avoid such clichés by focusing on a subtler and more intimate journey. In this world, nabbing a nicer jacket or a roach-free apartment may feel almost as rewarding as a house in the hills or a limo full of ladies.

-------------------------------------------------

#6 - The protagonist's not as fun

Tommy Vercetti was fueled by rage, revenge and a shitload of drugs. Carl Johnson fought to protect his family and friends. Even the mute hero of GTA III had that whole scorned lover thing going for him. Niko, meanwhile, is a no-nonsense, hard-working immigrant with an overweight cousin and a fondness for track suits. Honorable? Yes. Realistic? Maybe. Exciting? Not so much.

Why it doesn't matter

Niko doesn't fit in with the other protagonists because he isn't a cardboard cutout or cartoon character. His background, personality, motivation and relationships appear more complex... and more mysterious. The fact that we can't pigeonhole him into an archetype yet is fantastic; hopefully, we'll learn what drives him throughout the entire adventure instead of merely the intro sequence.

--------------------------------------------------

#7 - The canon has been erased

Speaking of Tommy, CJ and the gang, wouldn't it be cool to visit those guys again in all their next-gen glory? Or at least pop them in a quick cameo, so we know what they're up to in 2008? Or at least allow them to walk by in the background somewhere? Or at least leave a voicemail? Or at least be alive? Or at least still exist? Apparently, no, that would not be cool. Sigh...

Why it doesn’t matter

Credit Rockstar for creating such massive, multi-layered epics in each of their games. With so much weight, the entire saga's close to collapsing. Sure, the branching storylines and interconnecting casts were a blast while they lasted, but for the sake of newcomers and forgetful old timers alike, the reset button had to be pushed. Don't you feel lighter already?

---------------------------------------------------

#8 - You've been grounded

No more planes! No more jetpacks! No more parachutes, mountain bikes or tractors! No more swimming underwater, climbing mountains, hiking through forests or off-roading through deserts! No more freedom!

San Andreas removed the training wheels and said "go crazy." In GTA IV, it's back to the basics... and the back to the boring.

Why it doesn't matter

GTA IV is promised as a perfection of the basics, not just a return to them. The unrestricted wildness of San Andreas was purposefully scaled back so that the tried-and-true methods of transportation like cars, motorcycles and helicopters could be

11th April 2008, 20:49	#329 (permalink)
vanthaman Winner of the RedCafe Mickey Mouse Cup 2006 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: in front of laptop Posts: 12,647	http://www.libertycityradio.net some info on the radio stations WTKK and the Mens Room will be the best ones i reckon

11th April 2008, 21:13	#331 (permalink)
Ronaldo No.9 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: To be the man, you have to beat the man and I am the man Posts: 2,674	It seems Tesco is still taking pre-orders for the game.

11th April 2008, 21:45	#334 (permalink)
GE Captain Rio Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Greater Manchester, Broughton Park - Salford PSN:CaptainRio Posts: 9,168

11th April 2008, 21:45	#335 (permalink)
GE Captain Rio Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Greater Manchester, Broughton Park - Salford PSN:CaptainRio Posts: 9,168

11th April 2008, 21:46	#336 (permalink)
GE Captain Rio Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Greater Manchester, Broughton Park - Salford PSN:CaptainRio Posts: 9,168	2 NEW VIDEOS!!!

11th April 2008, 22:23	#340 (permalink)
GE Captain Rio Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Greater Manchester, Broughton Park - Salford PSN:CaptainRio Posts: 9,168	I just read on the GTA forums, there will be ATM machines in the game If you get caught by the police then you'll lose all the money on hand (Or some). So to keep it safe, you put it in your bank, then take it out the ATM machines when you need it.

11th April 2008, 22:44	#341 (permalink)
vanthaman Winner of the RedCafe Mickey Mouse Cup 2006 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: in front of laptop Posts: 12,647	cool, but the important thing we want to know is, can we rob the ATM machines

12th April 2008, 15:42	#344 (permalink)
RedDevil#26655 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: :noitacoL Posts: 4,671	just pre-ordered mine from amazon estimated delivery is may 9th-15th i think said, but before when iv pre-ordered from there it said the same thing but came on release day....so fingers crossed.