FC new home shirt here

Wolfboy · 10th June 2007, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

do you buy merchandise regularly ? do you at least go to OT on occasion ?
do you pay for MUTV ?
lets say you can buy something either from United or from another source, would you spend a few more quid and buy it from the club ?

ticket revenue comprises less than 30 percent of United's income. there's many more ways to contribute other than being a ST holder.

p.s
surely you didn't claim to care as much about your company as you do about United.

Nope to any of the above, I do not put a penny into Manchester United anymore.

and to the PS, of course not, it was just an insight into my character - I'm not for a second comparing the two situations.

DocRockter · 10th June 2007, 21:00

To me the kit looks fine and I for one am 100% behind FCUM and hope that the progress will continue in the next season...

fredthered · 10th June 2007, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

do you buy merchandise regularly ? do you at least go to OT on occasion ?
do you pay for MUTV ?
lets say you can buy something either from United or from another source, would you spend a few more quid and buy it from the club ?

ticket revenue comprises less than 30 percent of United's income. there's many more ways to contribute other than being a ST holder.

p.s
surely you didn't claim to care as much about your company as you do about United.

Bit of a silly question asking people who follow the "not one penny" argument isnt it.

Me personally I dont spend ONE penny on Man United. No merchandise, no tickets, nothing... Which actually isnt that far away from what a large proportion of those 75 million spend..

Lets think about what you've said here.

Matchday revenue in 2005/6 was £71 million
Media receipts was £45 million
Commercial receipts was £48 million.

Making a grand sum of about £165 million.

Less than £3 million of that came from overseas. Thats an official figure given by United to say how much revenue is generated from overseas and not UK based.

Now we know for 100% certain there arent 75 million United fans in the UK, in fact you'd be hard pushed to get over 2 million United fans in the UK. So using a fairly generous estimate, you can safely say theres about 73 million United fans outside the UK ( if we're going to stick by your 75 million supporters argument ).

Those 73 million supporters spend on average £0.05 each on United per year...

FIVE FUCKING PENCE....

And you seriously expect me to believe if they withdraw their support United will collapse under the weight of the lost revenue. Dont make me fucking laugh. United spend more on Rios fucking wages than they get in each season from overseas fans.

The matchgoing fans are the ones keeping United afloat, with TV companies and prizemoney.. If you think that United is benefitting from having these 75 million fans all digging deep into their pockets then think again.

fredthered · 10th June 2007, 21:15

http://www.redcafe.net/showthread.ph...12#post3371012

And some people say we're the deluded ones eh...

Just read that. Including the wondrous effort by Juniorh....

With support like this, you really do fear for the future of the club...

The clubs not in debt eh. Its all the Glazers debt
We can repay the £600 million in 5 years if we wanted

Some people abuse the "ignorance is bliss" privilige mercilessly...

TheGreyParrot · 10th June 2007, 22:57

Newton Heath, you have got to be a plant, you can't be real.
You really can't be so blissfully unaware of what a fool of yourself you are making.

The 75 million fans thing is nothing but propaganda. How on earth could you calculate something like that? Chumps like you though buy it hook line and sinker.

Your an outsider looking in. You do not know what following United is like.
Be honest, how many times have you actually physically seen United live?
Your trying to tell people who've travelled up and down the country and throughout Europe and the World how they should support United.
You are so way out of your depth I'm surprised you can't see it.

You have a tendency to ramble incoherently but because you add the odd big word here and there you feel your argument is relevant.
Trust me, it's not.

You say fred etc have turned their back on the club, well, what is your contribution to United?
Why should anyone listen to your argument for example above somebody like say, Andy Walsh?

You are merely some plum with too much time on his hands who has a new hobby called Man United, but it's a passing phase. You'll have moved on to the Dallas Cowboys or some other sports franchise and claim to be their number one fan pretty soon.

You are everything that is wrong with football in the modern era.

TR · 10th June 2007, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreyParrot

Newton Heath... You are everything that is wrong with football in the modern era.

If true, that certainly makes his username a candidate for 'most ironic'...

Brad · 11th June 2007, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickthered

Yes 28 quid for the shirt is high
But there is a reason for that it subsidises the price of the childrens shirts which are lower in price then they should be
Anyhow I don't think the price is that high when you compare it to costs of other shirts even other non league clubs charge higher prices

And as for going on about more money then other clubs coming ln from gate receipts then other clubs at the same level I think you want to try doing a little more research in to that before using itas a stick to try and beat the club with and you will find that as most clubs own the e own ground they don't have to pay someone 5000 a game they also get money from other things like sponsorship of the shirts and groundside advertising etc money from catering social clubs open all week
Non of these options apart from the shirt sponsorship are open to FC

Glazer defends his price rises partly on subsidies to the kids... I just find it strange that when FCUM are supposed to stand against the commercialism and all that aspect that's infiltrated the game, they couldn't make a good stand of releasing a shirt for say £15.

I'm not sure I was beating FCUM over the head about the amount they make on gate receipts, if they bring it in through supporters who want to watch, fair play that's the point of football, having people turn up and watch the game live. Evidently it distorts the competition, simply a fact of life

I'm not a great believer of the form of democracy we have in this country, a point raised earlier in this thread I believe. We're about to led by an unelected leader, where's the democracy there? Nor does everybodies vote count. Nor do people have enough say in the way they are governed, every half decade they get a say, from a limited choice, and the selections are all middle / high class candidates who live in their own bubble world. That system should be no defender of the FCUM approach! Personally, I'd prefer a single club owner, who supports the club, is sensible not putting the club at risk, and doesn't rip the supporters off. I see far more problems with the supporter owned approach

ManUinOz · 11th June 2007, 00:28

I'm one of the 75 million overseas fans. One of the rare ones who is an ex-pat and knows something of the history and culture that is MUFC. Most haven't got a clue but want to follow a succesful team to make watching the TV highlights abit more exciting. I used to see loads of United shirts, last few seasons I've seen loads of Chelsea, the overseas support is by and large very fickle IMO, except for those expats.

fredthered · 11th June 2007, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

now what exactly are you doing ? that all im fucking asking ? we have established that people were more honest 50 years ago. now what ? as i mentioned before "support" has to be taken literally whether you like it or not. the fact you believe its enough to support at heart is naive at best. in fact you are allowed this luxury (of believing whatever you believe) only through supporters who did not follow your example of boycott ... ironic isn't it ?

This is just absolutely marvellous.

Theres 75 million United fans in the world. Of that 75 million only 63000 turn up at every home game.

But according to that quote to support a team and to be seen to be a supporter you have to be taken literally. So every fan who claims to support United should go to OT to be seen as a literal supporter...

Anyone for OT becoming a 75 million seater anyone ?

NewtonHeathFC · 11th June 2007, 06:40

that was precious Fred, you think its not obvious that you cherry picked a few points to address ?

as i said United survived twice through handouts. once in 1902 and once in 1932. i dont know of anything that might invoke a bad word about either davies or gibson.
are you 70 years old Fred ? because if not i am struggling to Understand what exactly did you like about the Edwards. can you count how many times they tried to get rid of the club for less then a penny ? (even you would afford it)
and what about share manipulation that started early into their reign ? that became a sure way to pump money into their personal business.
oh and, as i mentioned, who made himself a richer man the minute the FA allowed chairmen to get paid ?

i cant understand fred, which United did you fall in love with? why didn't you boycott the traitorous owners, why didn't you stand up ?...FC could have been an empire by now have you acted then.

if not for 75 million fans we could forget about our principal sponsorship, about other major and minor endorsements. thats not the main point , not even the loss of merchandise revenue or plummeting ratings that would prove to be a major hit. none of that... its the mentality - not-a-penny vs support.
many of united fans come from poor countries, and maybe they dont have more than 5 pence to spend but they are still willing to spend 5 times more than you.
and you have no fucking right to suggest you are more of a supporter. because one thing is as clear as day - if all 75 million were like you then there would be no united .
besides since you are not 70 years old , this whole charade makes you a bit of a hypocrite as well.
and for the love of god stop taking everything as anti-FC , for instance the word "charade" is addressing your martyr-like not-a-penny holier than thou attitude.

you know it is Edwards who tried to sell time and time again, it is Edwards who tried to make as much money of United as he possibly could, it is Edward family who exploited United for their own benefit, it is edwards who threw us out into the volatile market, for his own benefit again, making us the whore that can be owned by anyone who is willing to pay. it is edwards who never gave up his dream of selling and after a handful of tries finally did.
so everything you hate about Edwards you are now taking out on Glazer ?
millionaires are greedy bastards .... no fucking shit sherlock

either you are content in living in your own little world where you say not-a-penny because it makes you sleep better yet you know united will carry on on the backs of other supporters
OR
you are preaching the annihilation of United as people have known it since munich. you want to crush the dreams and hopes of 75 million worldwide just to satisfy your own limited understanding of what a true football team should look like ... true football teams must battle bankruptcy because money=evil, or at least play in Unibond because the big stage will always put them in danger of making more money than you want them to have.

NewtonHeathFC · 11th June 2007, 06:57

most of the people who share my opinion recommended "The Betrayal of a Legend"

from what people are telling me it illustrates perfectly the wrongdoings of the Edwards. unfortunately it is only the tip of the iceberg as the book was written in 1989.

i just ordered it, have you read it ?

redfan · 11th June 2007, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

only because it has about 3-5 thousand members.

i would take glazers any day over becoming the new Real Madrid. a shite disgrace of a club reeking of corruption, much like communism when applied to a large amount of people.

you dont have to see the analogy, you just need to understand that it wouldn't work in todays world on such a large scale. what you are trying to do is stop and even reverse globalization and you are only able to do that in your own mind.

Barca...........nuff said.

NewtonHeathFC · 11th June 2007, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfan

Barca...........nuff said.

i dont follow la liga, but from the articles that sometimes float on reuters i can say that be it Seria A or La Liga - same shite.
that module must be governed by a board of directors who make the decisions, and these cunts are no different than politicians, they have electoral campaigns where they promise to bring all the big names into the club and promise a world on top of that, then everybody realize they are only hungry for power and money and they reelect.

but you people are naive if you think you can have all members to vote for every decision - THAT ONLY WORKS BECAUSE YOU HAVE 3-5000 FANS.
anything on a large scale would be dirty politics . only in that case instead of having a board who has a personal interest with club, you would have a volatile unstable situation that would disrupt the balance of the club as the policies will be ever-changing.

as i said much like communism, this theory seems to be naive as it demands utopian conditions. among many things it ignores human nature. and yet all of you demand to toy with the idea to see what happens. you are willing and wishing to risk the dreams and hopes of 75 million to satisfy your own ambitions. selfish at fucking best.

fredthered · 11th June 2007, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

you are willing and wishing to risk the dreams and hopes of 75 million to satisfy your own ambitions. selfish at fucking best.

Do you realise the utter irony in that.

Theres 75000 people being shafted with huge ticket increases, and you're worrying about the 75 million who put next to fuck all into the club.

The selfish ones are the 75 million who could and should have put money into MUST but were too lily livered to bother and because they're not the ones paying the debts off they dont see it as their problem...

CasaStreets · 12th June 2007, 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreyParrot

You are one enlightened dude, talking about Utopia's and Tibetan mountains, you really are out there man, peace brother and feng shui!

Oh, and the shirt is so-so, not sure about the sleeve-ends but I like the collar.

redfan · 12th June 2007, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

i dont follow la liga, but from the articles that sometimes float on reuters i can say that be it Seria A or La Liga - same shite.
that module must be governed by a board of directors who make the decisions, and these cunts are no different than politicians, they have electoral campaigns where they promise to bring all the big names into the club and promise a world on top of that, then everybody realize they are only hungry for power and money and they reelect.

but you people are naive if you think you can have all members to vote for every decision - THAT ONLY WORKS BECAUSE YOU HAVE 3-5000 FANS.
anything on a large scale would be dirty politics . only in that case instead of having a board who has a personal interest with club, you would have a volatile unstable situation that would disrupt the balance of the club as the policies will be ever-changing.

as i said much like communism, this theory seems to be naive as it demands utopian conditions. among many things it ignores human nature. and yet all of you demand to toy with the idea to see what happens. you are willing and wishing to risk the dreams and hopes of 75 million to satisfy your own ambitions. selfish at fucking best.

We run a country on exactly one person- one vote, we seem to manage alright. On the facts surrounding Barca and FC, the members elect the board and if a member does not come up to scratch he/she will be replaced. If I were you I would extract my head from my arsehole then maybe you might see the light.

NewtonHeathFC · 12th June 2007, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredthered

Do you realise the utter irony in that.

Theres 75000 people being shafted with huge ticket increases, and you're worrying about the 75 million who put next to fuck all into the club.

The selfish ones are the 75 million who could and should have put money into MUST but were too lily livered to bother and because they're not the ones paying the debts off they dont see it as their problem...

ignorance at its best , you think people in the fare east who spend a month worth of salary on a jersey should put in more money that you do ?
w already calculated that with the most outrageously biased calculation a third world country fan puts in 5 times more into united than you do , so its fair to say he is 5 times the fan you are . and tahts according to your biased numbers that you never linked to any official source.
and again we are talking about a member of a third world country that can barely afford bread.

take me for instance and granted your "not-a -penny" policy i spend about 200-300 GBP on average every year on new jerseys and all sorts of merchandise from the official store. thats not including being subscribed to MUTV.
im even considering buying the OPUS , that alone should cover your next 20 years of spending. so please spare me the "match goers suffer most" routine. especially ironic is the fact that it is ME who gives match goers the credit and yet you seem to try and spin things a bit . it was me who said you turned yourself into a moral martyr because you know that match going fans will keep united from destruction ... its either that or that you sincerely hope for the end of United .... in either case you dont come out to well ...

i made a whole comment in your address at least reciprocate the respect and address it.
FC new home shirt here

NewtonHeathFC · 12th June 2007, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfan

We run a country on exactly one person- one vote, we seem to manage alright. On the facts surrounding Barca and FC, the members elect the board and if a member does not come up to scratch he/she will be replaced. If I were you I would extract my head from my arsehole then maybe you might see the light.

you are like a naive little girl

you think Blair can do w/e the fuck he wants ?
are you saying that politics is not a dirty corrupt game ?

lets say you elect the board who decides one thing , it may as well be unpopular with nearly half the fans...and then when something doesn't suit them they reelect. destabilizes the club and no one never understood me

redfan · 12th June 2007, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonHeathFC

you are like a naive little girl

you think Blair can do w/e the fuck he wants ?
are you saying that politics is not a dirty corrupt game ?

lets say you elect the board who decides one thing , it may as well be unpopular with nearly half the fans...and then when something doesn't suit them they reelect. destabilizes the club and no one never understood me

You seem to contradict yourself with every statement you make, maybe YOU are the naive little girl, maybe that is it you ARE a little girl. We elect a government and if they don't perform then they get the boot, it's the same with the board, the fans decide on a democratic vote, how can I make it any clearer.

Wes · 12th June 2007, 11:54

what the fuck has any of this got to do with a football shirt?

1 topic of conversation arseholes.

northroad1878 · 12th June 2007, 14:39

Hang on, NewtonHeath's argument seems to be arguing that democracy doesn't work on a large scale. He may be a genius! I shall never vote in a national election again!

snootyjim · 12th June 2007, 14:52

1st - what happened to the discussion of the shirt - looks pretty good btw
2nd - why have I just been directed here by Newtonheath? Is he trying to get people who support United to come in and back-up his argument or something? I don't understand what the argument he's trying to put forward is supposed to mean either...

NewtonHeathFC · 12th June 2007, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by snootyjim

why have I just been directed here

I don't understand what the argument

for your opinion.

the argument is -
-FC is great.
-Fc does fuck all for United.
-some FC fans riding the backs (in a sense of knowing United will never die) of "loyalists" with their not-a-penny rants. other FC fans actually do want United to crash and burn. i am not sure what is the ratio, i guess they all know themselves.
-all the members voted on the shirt and the price - great idea.
-that only works because they have a small number of supporters.
-apply it on large scale and it and a massive amount of members elect a board . those who are elected act much like politicians - promise a lot in order to get elected. often the opinions split and rarely the voting is unanimous so there will always be a massive amount of fans unhappy. and those who were happy with their candidates winning might get disappointed in them. this theory ignore human nature.

easy problem to fix right ? lets reelect them ....and thats what always happens, that destabilizes the team, the policies constantly change depending on how the masses sway them, the club is run by a bunch of arm chair managers and directors.

its almost that they want to play Football Manager in real life, because they aLL have the right solution and THEY know what's right for the club.

its all hypocrite shite because they were all following United during Edwards who DID worse things than what they assume Glazer MIGHT do.

a club that is privately owned is much better evil than what they suggest, for fucks sake that why most clubs are. so of course you can play around with your toy club and do whatever the fuck you want, just fuck off Man United .

oh yea Northroad - "democracy" in business is communism. in business capitalism beats communism. you are not from north korea aren't you ? look around.
it works with countries because the infrastructure of a country is a MASSIVE matrix where a person has almost an infinite amount of ways to control their own destiny.

and fred - i see why you like to play this game - you are a master politician yourself constantly avoiding fundamental questions ...nice ...is that how FC is run also ?

here you go a reminder-
FC new home shirt here

NewtonHeathFC · 12th June 2007, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by northroad1878

Hang on, NewtonHeath's argument seems to be arguing that democracy doesn't work on a large scale. He may be a genius! I shall never vote in a national election again!

i addressed this above

NewtonHeathFC · 12th June 2007, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfan

We elect a government and if they don't perform then they get the boot, it's the same with the board, the fans decide on a democratic vote, how can I make it any clearer.

thats a bit simple of you

i addressed that above in my reply to northroad.

but man was that simple of you. im sure if you stop to think about the differences between a country and a football club, you would understand how simple that comment was.

its even a bit embarrassing to get into.

10th June 2007, 21:00	#42 (permalink)
DocRockter Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 1,127	To me the kit looks fine and I for one am 100% behind FCUM and hope that the progress will continue in the next season...

10th June 2007, 21:15	#44 (permalink)
fredthered I want Peter Kenyon back Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 14,491	http://www.redcafe.net/showthread.ph...12#post3371012 And some people say we're the deluded ones eh... Just read that. Including the wondrous effort by Juniorh.... With support like this, you really do fear for the future of the club... The clubs not in debt eh. Its all the Glazers debt We can repay the £600 million in 5 years if we wanted Some people abuse the "ignorance is bliss" privilige mercilessly...

10th June 2007, 22:57	#45 (permalink)
TheGreyParrot Youth Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Moston Posts: 177	Newton Heath, you have got to be a plant, you can't be real. You really can't be so blissfully unaware of what a fool of yourself you are making. The 75 million fans thing is nothing but propaganda. How on earth could you calculate something like that? Chumps like you though buy it hook line and sinker. Your an outsider looking in. You do not know what following United is like. Be honest, how many times have you actually physically seen United live? Your trying to tell people who've travelled up and down the country and throughout Europe and the World how they should support United. You are so way out of your depth I'm surprised you can't see it. You have a tendency to ramble incoherently but because you add the odd big word here and there you feel your argument is relevant. Trust me, it's not. You say fred etc have turned their back on the club, well, what is your contribution to United? Why should anyone listen to your argument for example above somebody like say, Andy Walsh? You are merely some plum with too much time on his hands who has a new hobby called Man United, but it's a passing phase. You'll have moved on to the Dallas Cowboys or some other sports franchise and claim to be their number one fan pretty soon. You are everything that is wrong with football in the modern era.

11th June 2007, 00:28	#48 (permalink)
ManUinOz Betty Swallox Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't. Posts: 6,317	I'm one of the 75 million overseas fans. One of the rare ones who is an ex-pat and knows something of the history and culture that is MUFC. Most haven't got a clue but want to follow a succesful team to make watching the TV highlights abit more exciting. I used to see loads of United shirts, last few seasons I've seen loads of Chelsea, the overseas support is by and large very fickle IMO, except for those expats.

11th June 2007, 06:40	#50 (permalink)
NewtonHeathFC Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: scouse women prefer german men because they can stay on top for 90 minutes and still come second Posts: 1,108	that was precious Fred, you think its not obvious that you cherry picked a few points to address ? as i said United survived twice through handouts. once in 1902 and once in 1932. i dont know of anything that might invoke a bad word about either davies or gibson. are you 70 years old Fred ? because if not i am struggling to Understand what exactly did you like about the Edwards. can you count how many times they tried to get rid of the club for less then a penny ? (even you would afford it) and what about share manipulation that started early into their reign ? that became a sure way to pump money into their personal business. oh and, as i mentioned, who made himself a richer man the minute the FA allowed chairmen to get paid ? i cant understand fred, which United did you fall in love with? why didn't you boycott the traitorous owners, why didn't you stand up ?...FC could have been an empire by now have you acted then. if not for 75 million fans we could forget about our principal sponsorship, about other major and minor endorsements. thats not the main point , not even the loss of merchandise revenue or plummeting ratings that would prove to be a major hit. none of that... its the mentality - not-a-penny vs support. many of united fans come from poor countries, and maybe they dont have more than 5 pence to spend but they are still willing to spend 5 times more than you. and you have no fucking right to suggest you are more of a supporter. because one thing is as clear as day - if all 75 million were like you then there would be no united . besides since you are not 70 years old , this whole charade makes you a bit of a hypocrite as well. and for the love of god stop taking everything as anti-FC , for instance the word "charade" is addressing your martyr-like not-a-penny holier than thou attitude. you know it is Edwards who tried to sell time and time again, it is Edwards who tried to make as much money of United as he possibly could, it is Edward family who exploited United for their own benefit, it is edwards who threw us out into the volatile market, for his own benefit again, making us the whore that can be owned by anyone who is willing to pay. it is edwards who never gave up his dream of selling and after a handful of tries finally did. so everything you hate about Edwards you are now taking out on Glazer ? millionaires are greedy bastards .... no fucking shit sherlock either you are content in living in your own little world where you say not-a-penny because it makes you sleep better yet you know united will carry on on the backs of other supporters OR you are preaching the annihilation of United as people have known it since munich. you want to crush the dreams and hopes of 75 million worldwide just to satisfy your own limited understanding of what a true football team should look like ... true football teams must battle bankruptcy because money=evil, or at least play in Unibond because the big stage will always put them in danger of making more money than you want them to have.

11th June 2007, 06:57	#51 (permalink)
NewtonHeathFC Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: scouse women prefer german men because they can stay on top for 90 minutes and still come second Posts: 1,108	most of the people who share my opinion recommended "The Betrayal of a Legend" from what people are telling me it illustrates perfectly the wrongdoings of the Edwards. unfortunately it is only the tip of the iceberg as the book was written in 1989. i just ordered it, have you read it ?

12th June 2007, 11:54	#60 (permalink)
Wes Brown is no God Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, in the Irish Republic Posts: 8,196	what the fuck has any of this got to do with a football shirt? 1 topic of conversation arseholes.

12th June 2007, 14:39	#61 (permalink)
northroad1878 A bit of a brute Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: A beaut of a Brit Posts: 1,669	Hang on, NewtonHeath's argument seems to be arguing that democracy doesn't work on a large scale. He may be a genius! I shall never vote in a national election again!

12th June 2007, 14:52	#62 (permalink)
snootyjim In most joy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The land of the Chelski 'I'm supporting my local team' bunch Posts: 2,877	1st - what happened to the discussion of the shirt - looks pretty good btw 2nd - why have I just been directed here by Newtonheath? Is he trying to get people who support United to come in and back-up his argument or something? I don't understand what the argument he's trying to put forward is supposed to mean either...

12th June 2007, 16:34	#66 (permalink)
snootyjim In most joy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The land of the Chelski 'I'm supporting my local team' bunch