Fewer on loan this year

oskarutd · 22nd July 2007, 21:50

On MUTV today Ferguson confirmed that they had looked at the loan system and came to the conclusion that one year loan is enough for the youngsters.
He said that maybe 1 or 2 might go out (most likely of the players that had been on loan).
Simpson said he will get 6 months at least with the first team.
Ferguson said Gibson will get a game tomorrow, but Martin is injured. Both will get changes with the first team this season and he believes they will take it.
Does anyone know the situation with Antwerp this season?
I saw on their site last season that Gray would come on loan this season. Any more?

PS18 · 22nd July 2007, 21:53

good to hear, but i really don't see how Gibson and Martin are going to get near the first team considering how many midfielders we now have.

Fitzjames · 22nd July 2007, 22:00

Big year for Martin & Gibson.
I think that Martin has been loaned enough....Rangers and Stoke so Id think the coaches will be looking to see him on a regualr basis in Reserves.
I thought that Gibson was a candidate for loan to a Championship club. I cant see him near the first team yet.
Simpson close to first time is probably bad news for Bardsley.

Personally I thought we had too many players on loan last year. Prolly we will send some to Antwerp again but the guys who go are usually new professionals who arent near the First Team.
Did I read somewhere that Gray will miss the start of the season anyway?

oskarutd · 22nd July 2007, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

good to hear, but i really don't see how Gibson and Martin are going to get near the first team considering how many midfielders we now have.

It´s a strange season.
Seems like we will be going in to the season with 3-4 goalkeepers, 12-13 defenders, 12 midfielders and 6-8 attackers. That´s 33-37 players! Last year we had 22-23 players.
Is there something we are missing?
Or will there be 4-5 experianced players leaving in August?

Fitzjames · 22nd July 2007, 22:08

Yes I see a few players going. Bardsley, Rossi, Pique.......Smith, Heinze are possibilities too. Richie Jones missing out on the Tour prolly means writing on the wall.
Foster will be out for a while injured.
I can see players such as R Eckersley, S Evans, M Barnes, M Lea being most likely going to Antwerp.

oskarutd · 22nd July 2007, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzjames

Yes I see a few players going. Bardsley, Rossi, Pique.......Smith, Heinze are possibilities too. Richie Jones missing out on the Tour prolly means writing on the wall.
Foster will be out for a while injured.
I can see players such as R Eckersley, S Evans, M Barnes, M Lea being most likely going to Antwerp.

Adam Eckersley as well as Jones.
Kieran Lee might go on loan, Shawcross, Cathcart, Hewson, Brandy as well. Heaton perhaps. I think Chester, and Richard Eckersley will stay as well as Fagan And Zieler.
I wouldn´t say that Bardsley, Possi and Pique are that experianced players.
Gray will be back in september.

Fitzjames · 22nd July 2007, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskarutd

Adam Eckersley as well as Jones.
Kieran Lee might go on loan, Shawcross, Cathcart, Hewson, Brandy as well. Heaton perhaps. I think Chester, and Richard Eckersley will stay as well as Fagan And Zieler.
I wouldn´t say that Bardsley, Possi and Pique are that experianced players.
Gray will be back in september.

Yes good shout on Adam Eckersley. He and Jones didnt set the world on fire at barnsley and it looks like thats their level. I singled out Jones because 18 months ago he was ahead of his years a little.
Shawcross.Id gamble on staying until January as he is just back from Antwerp.
Cathcart and Kieran Lee..youre probably right, loan to Championship.
Heaton, Id think will stay ntil January as a third choice until Foster is fit.
The rest you mentioned prollya little too early to go out.

I take the point that Pique, Rossi, Bardsley not experienced in the proper sense....but they are established first team squad players.
As always it depends how these things are defined but I certainly wouldnt argue with anything youve said there.

Tribec · 23rd July 2007, 10:04

Jones was never going to make it at United, add to that the purchase of Hargreaves has pushed his chances further back. He'll leave as soon as we find the right club for him.

I agree that it's time for Martin to step up and show us what he's got, but what will make for interesting viewing is the development of Barnes. He's come a long way in such a short period of time and it will be interesting what happens this year, with the likes of Martin and Eagles back at the club. I like Barnes, he reminds me of Steve Coppell, though not in the same class, he's very similar in style of play.

As for fewer out on loan, I think Fergie realised this at the end of last season. When we went through the defensive crisis, we had very few senior reserves at the club, and apart from Cathcart, no one looked ready to be thrown into the mix at such a crucial time. However having so many "senior" reserve players back this year may restrict the development of those coming through, so Fergie's either going to either prune the squad one way or another.

Uzi · 23rd July 2007, 21:28

Gibbo is our most closest to a Stevie G... won't make it at Utd though h is a good player none the less... me thinks hell end up at Villa...

PS18 · 24th July 2007, 00:27

Kieran Lee has to be a shoo-in to go out on loan, and you'd expect Cathcart to go too. Michael Barnes - i'm the opposite to Tribec really, i don't see what the fuss is about with him personally. he's the sort of winger who's always going to do fairly well at reserve level - bit of pace, decent crosser, gets a few goals - but for me he's neither outstanding enough in any of those areas or in possession of that bit of guile a winger needs at the top level. he may well prove me wrong, and the only way he's really going to do that is get out on loan this season and prove himself against defenders with a bit more nous than those he comes up against at reserve level (generally kids themselves).

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 24th July 2007, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

good to hear, but i really don't see how Gibson and Martin are going to get near the first team considering how many midfielders we now have.

Injuries mate. Injuries. We haven't even started the season proper but we already have Foster, Neville, Scholes, Ole, Saha and Hargreaves injured. Trust me. During next season our injury list will be back to it's original size pre-last season. We will need all the players in our large squad to avoid a repeat of similar crisis like the one at the back end of last season.

PS18 · 24th July 2007, 21:52

don't really buy that. it would take an injury crisis of even more epic proportions than the back end of last season for those two to get any sort of regular football, arguably more epic than i can remember us suffering in my lifetime - Gibson is probably behind Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs Anderson and O'Shea in central midfield, while Martin is behind Ronaldo, Nani, Giggs, Park, Anderson and probably Fletcher out wide in a 442, and Rooney and Ole as well in a 433.

don't see any reason why we should be expecting a massive injury list anyway, happens every so often but incredibly rarely on the scale of the tail end of last season.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th July 2007, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

don't really buy that. it would take an injury crisis of even more epic proportions than the back end of last season for those two to get any sort of regular football, arguably more epic than i can remember us suffering in my lifetime - Gibson is probably behind Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs Anderson and O'Shea in central midfield, while Martin is behind Ronaldo, Nani, Giggs, Park, Anderson and probably Fletcher out wide in a 442, and Rooney and Ole as well in a 433.

don't see any reason why we should be expecting a massive injury list anyway, happens every so often but incredibly rarely on the scale of the tail end of last season.

You don't have to buy it but the reality is very different from this ideal scenario you are painting. Last season was largely an anomaly in our recent past. Since our last title in 2003 our injury list has been rivaling Newcastle's most seasons. Last season was the exception till the back end when our entire back four was out.

And look at it. We have 7 guys injured already and the season hasn't even begun. Have no doubt we are going to have plenty of injuries this season. Because we will be chasing 4 trophies for the first time in years. Now we will need a large squad to cope. Which we have now.

So I support Fergie in not wanting to send the likes of the Gibson's on loan again. Because one on loan you can't call them back when you need them.

thus insists the chief

redfromcanada · 26th July 2007, 14:18

I realize that SAF wants to see the players develop under his watch, which he feels is better for their development. However, as it is the fringe players are only getting reserve team matches, which isn't a high enough level, I feel, to further their development. How effective will the players be if they have to jump to the first team after playing in the reserves? The jump in class could be too much, which is why many players were sent on loan in the first place. The loan system didn't work for some players last season because of the clubs that they were sent to. Lee Martin is an excellent case in point. He was sent to Rangers, which didn't use wingers for the first half of the season under Paul LeGuen. Then went to Stoke, which doesn't play even close to the United style.

PS18 · 26th July 2007, 15:48

if there's a strong reserve league i can see the logic in keeping the Gibson's and Martin's around, but as it is now, what use are they going to be if we have to call on them in early January after the festive fixture list takes it toll and they've not even played a reserve game for a month? check the reserve fixture list, that's the reality - 2/3 week gaps between games, over a month with no games over christmas. their development is going to be stunted, a game every few weeks in what is now a woeful reserve league is not enough for them at this stage in their careers, and it makes no sense to me to sacrifice their development just in case an extremely unlikely injury crisis hits the first team (i see what you're saying Chief but disagree, seasons with major injury crises are the anomaly, not the norm. the back end of 97/98, most/all of 05/06 and the back end of last season are as bad as it gets, that sort of crisis happens rarely and it's daft to hamper young players' progress just in case it happens again (and of the 7 players injured already that you talk about, only Foster and Park are long-term, neither of whom are first choice. hardly a crisis, or anywhere near it).

samabachan · 26th July 2007, 20:45

What'll happen to Campbell? I really like him but is he still too weak to be playing in the first team? Loan to Championship?

22nd July 2007, 21:50	#1 (permalink)
oskarutd Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Iceland Posts: 1,681	Fewer on loan this year On MUTV today Ferguson confirmed that they had looked at the loan system and came to the conclusion that one year loan is enough for the youngsters. He said that maybe 1 or 2 might go out (most likely of the players that had been on loan). Simpson said he will get 6 months at least with the first team. Ferguson said Gibson will get a game tomorrow, but Martin is injured. Both will get changes with the first team this season and he believes they will take it. Does anyone know the situation with Antwerp this season? I saw on their site last season that Gray would come on loan this season. Any more?

22nd July 2007, 22:00	#3 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 1,708	Gibson & Martin Big year for Martin & Gibson. I think that Martin has been loaned enough....Rangers and Stoke so Id think the coaches will be looking to see him on a regualr basis in Reserves. I thought that Gibson was a candidate for loan to a Championship club. I cant see him near the first team yet. Simpson close to first time is probably bad news for Bardsley. Personally I thought we had too many players on loan last year. Prolly we will send some to Antwerp again but the guys who go are usually new professionals who arent near the First Team. Did I read somewhere that Gray will miss the start of the season anyway? Last edited by Fitzjames; 22nd July 2007 at 22:03. Reason: Additional info

22nd July 2007, 22:08	#5 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 1,708	Players leaving? Yes I see a few players going. Bardsley, Rossi, Pique.......Smith, Heinze are possibilities too. Richie Jones missing out on the Tour prolly means writing on the wall. Foster will be out for a while injured. I can see players such as R Eckersley, S Evans, M Barnes, M Lea being most likely going to Antwerp.

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22nd July 2007, 21:53	#2 (permalink)
PS18 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ruud ftw Posts: 2,075	good to hear, but i really don't see how Gibson and Martin are going to get near the first team considering how many midfielders we now have.

23rd July 2007, 10:04	#8 (permalink)
Tribec Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Out and Proud of it.... I'm a Red and I'm from Salford. Posts: 2,948	Jones was never going to make it at United, add to that the purchase of Hargreaves has pushed his chances further back. He'll leave as soon as we find the right club for him. I agree that it's time for Martin to step up and show us what he's got, but what will make for interesting viewing is the development of Barnes. He's come a long way in such a short period of time and it will be interesting what happens this year, with the likes of Martin and Eagles back at the club. I like Barnes, he reminds me of Steve Coppell, though not in the same class, he's very similar in style of play. As for fewer out on loan, I think Fergie realised this at the end of last season. When we went through the defensive crisis, we had very few senior reserves at the club, and apart from Cathcart, no one looked ready to be thrown into the mix at such a crucial time. However having so many "senior" reserve players back this year may restrict the development of those coming through, so Fergie's either going to either prune the squad one way or another.

23rd July 2007, 21:28	#9 (permalink)
Uzi Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hates "Twats" Posts: 1,194	Gibbo is our most closest to a Stevie G... won't make it at Utd though h is a good player none the less... me thinks hell end up at Villa...

24th July 2007, 00:27	#10 (permalink)
PS18 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ruud ftw Posts: 2,075	Kieran Lee has to be a shoo-in to go out on loan, and you'd expect Cathcart to go too. Michael Barnes - i'm the opposite to Tribec really, i don't see what the fuss is about with him personally. he's the sort of winger who's always going to do fairly well at reserve level - bit of pace, decent crosser, gets a few goals - but for me he's neither outstanding enough in any of those areas or in possession of that bit of guile a winger needs at the top level. he may well prove me wrong, and the only way he's really going to do that is get out on loan this season and prove himself against defenders with a bit more nous than those he comes up against at reserve level (generally kids themselves).

24th July 2007, 21:52	#12 (permalink)
PS18 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ruud ftw Posts: 2,075	don't really buy that. it would take an injury crisis of even more epic proportions than the back end of last season for those two to get any sort of regular football, arguably more epic than i can remember us suffering in my lifetime - Gibson is probably behind Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs Anderson and O'Shea in central midfield, while Martin is behind Ronaldo, Nani, Giggs, Park, Anderson and probably Fletcher out wide in a 442, and Rooney and Ole as well in a 433. don't see any reason why we should be expecting a massive injury list anyway, happens every so often but incredibly rarely on the scale of the tail end of last season.

26th July 2007, 14:18	#14 (permalink)
redfromcanada Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 830	I realize that SAF wants to see the players develop under his watch, which he feels is better for their development. However, as it is the fringe players are only getting reserve team matches, which isn't a high enough level, I feel, to further their development. How effective will the players be if they have to jump to the first team after playing in the reserves? The jump in class could be too much, which is why many players were sent on loan in the first place. The loan system didn't work for some players last season because of the clubs that they were sent to. Lee Martin is an excellent case in point. He was sent to Rangers, which didn't use wingers for the first half of the season under Paul LeGuen. Then went to Stoke, which doesn't play even close to the United style.

26th July 2007, 15:48	#15 (permalink)
PS18 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ruud ftw Posts: 2,075	if there's a strong reserve league i can see the logic in keeping the Gibson's and Martin's around, but as it is now, what use are they going to be if we have to call on them in early January after the festive fixture list takes it toll and they've not even played a reserve game for a month? check the reserve fixture list, that's the reality - 2/3 week gaps between games, over a month with no games over christmas. their development is going to be stunted, a game every few weeks in what is now a woeful reserve league is not enough for them at this stage in their careers, and it makes no sense to me to sacrifice their development just in case an extremely unlikely injury crisis hits the first team (i see what you're saying Chief but disagree, seasons with major injury crises are the anomaly, not the norm. the back end of 97/98, most/all of 05/06 and the back end of last season are as bad as it gets, that sort of crisis happens rarely and it's daft to hamper young players' progress just in case it happens again (and of the 7 players injured already that you talk about, only Foster and Park are long-term, neither of whom are first choice. hardly a crisis, or anywhere near it).

26th July 2007, 20:45	#16 (permalink)
samabachan First Team Sub Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Football is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom Posts: 9,355	What'll happen to Campbell? I really like him but is he still too weak to be playing in the first team? Loan to Championship?