Pique

Pogue Mahone · 13th March 2008, 11:43

Was watching the reserves last night and it suddenly struck me that Pique is an extremely classy footballer, except for one weakness - defending!

Every time he brings the ball out of defence he looks like a man amongst boys, composed, strong as an ox, great touch, vision and a decent passer of the ball.

But when he has strikers running at him, with the ball at their feet, he just seems to fall to pieces. All they have to do is kick and rush, next thing he's flailing in their wake, grabbing fistfuls of their shirt. Extremely lucky not to get sent off last night.

Which begs the question. Should we be grooming him for a role in midfield? By all accounts, that's where he did his best work in Spain.

Or is this headless chicken defending just a blip in his development?

Cold_Boy · 13th March 2008, 12:18

I have always thought he would be a class Def Mid.

FlawlessThaw · 13th March 2008, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold_Boy

I have always thought he would be a class Def Mid.

So would I actually, when for some bizarre reason we were for linked with Veloso, I thought Pique could do a better job for us than him.

jonnymee23 · 13th March 2008, 13:19

Some of his distribution wasnt that good. I think Jonny Evnas is better tehnically than him. He wasnt composed enough last night when he had to make clearances. Dont know what to make of him on whether he'll make it here or not. He is still young though.

If we are grooming him as a DM I would much rather have Rodrigo. He is a class act.

Virtuoso · 13th March 2008, 16:27

Piqué was immense as a defensive midfielder when he was played there in the match where Rodrigo had a shocker and was taken off. I don't know if he could keep that up consistently but I agree that his attributes seem best suited to the position as he is prone to making mistakes. Certainly doesn't look the best with players running at him as the last man.

Alex · 13th March 2008, 16:46

Think he will be a pretyt good CB, it will just take him time, as a result it might not happen at United

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 13th March 2008, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Was watching the reserves last night and it suddenly struck me that Pique is an extremely classy footballer, except for one weakness - defending!

Every time he brings the ball out of defence he looks like a man amongst boys, composed, strong as an ox, great touch, vision and a decent passer of the ball.

But when he has strikers running at him, with the ball at their feet, he just seems to fall to pieces. All they have to do is kick and rush, next thing he's flailing in their wake, grabbing fistfuls of their shirt. Extremely lucky not to get sent off last night.

Which begs the question. Should we be grooming him for a role in midfield? By all accounts, that's where he did his best work in Spain.

Or is this headless chicken defending just a blip in his development?

This poor defending comes form the fact, as Paddy
said recently, reserve football is too easy. So he is being unfocused .We need to get him more first team game pronto. If that fails. There is always midfield. He would be class there

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 13th March 2008, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virtuoso

...... Certainly doesn't look the best with players running at him as the last man.

Mainly that's due to him being as slow or even slower than Vidic. For my money

park fiction · 13th March 2008, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold_Boy

I have always thought he would be a class Def Mid.

I agree, in the holding role he would have everything.

westlife4ever · 14th March 2008, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Which begs the question. Should we be grooming him for a role in midfield? By all accounts, that's where he did his best work in Spain.

he mostly played as centre back and right back in zaragoza.

i think he's a good centre back, but lack of pace is a big problem for him to play there in the premiership.

PS18 · 15th March 2008, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

This poor defending comes form the fact, as Paddy said recently, reserve football is too easy. So he is being unfocused .We need to get him more first team game pronto. If that fails. There is always midfield. He would be class there

the trouble is how do we get him more first team games 'pronto'? i see what you're saying and agree in theory, but you simply can't break up the Rio/Vidic partnership at this stage of the season just to give a kid some games. similarly, when we have Scholes, Anderson, Carrick, Hargreaves and Fletcher all competing for time in central midfield, how are we seriously going to give Piqué any minutes there?

Simpson has the same problem, with reserve football being too easy and a 'step down' after his first team appearances this season. slight difference though that we could really give him a few more games at right-back in the theoretically easier fixtures.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 15th March 2008, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

the trouble is how do we get him more first team games 'pronto'? i see what you're saying and agree in theory, but you simply can't break up the Rio/Vidic partnership at this stage of the season just to give a kid some games.

That's true. But today he was the type of game he and Simpson should have played in. But with United playing like we did. Even such game might be beyond them as chances for first team football

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

similarly, when we have Scholes, Anderson, Carrick, Hargreaves and Fletcher all competing for time in central midfield, how are we seriously going to give Piqué any minutes there?

We can't. The midfield already has 5 men competing for 2 spots

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

Simpson has the same problem, with reserve football being too easy and a 'step down' after his first team appearances this season. slight difference though that we could really give him a few more games at right-back in the theoretically easier fixtures.

I agree. But our early exit from the FA Cup didn't help matters. The biggest blow however to the likes of Simpson and Pique development was that Carling Cup loss to Coventry. It robbed them of a real opportunity for proper first team action on a regular basis.

PS18 · 15th March 2008, 20:48

i agree, although it's only an extra few games, still not really enough. the only top club to really bring through kids successfully in the last few years is Arsenal (although not as well as the media would have you believe) and the price they paid was two years finishing a very distant fourth - a luxury Fergie doesn't have.

bit disappointed Piqué or Simpson didn't feature today but then JOS needs games as well, as all squad players do. it's a tough balancing act these days, with such large first-team squads at the top clubs.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 16th March 2008, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS18

i agree, although it's only an extra few games, still not really enough. the only top club to really bring through kids successfully in the last few years is Arsenal (although not as well as the media would have you believe) and the price they paid was two years finishing a very distant fourth - a luxury Fergie doesn't have.

bit disappointed Piqué or Simpson didn't feature today but then JOS needs games as well, as all squad players do. it's a tough balancing act these days, with such large first-team squads at the top clubs.

True. It just helps to be chasing on about 3 our four fronts to get such people game though.
Plus the team being on top form, which we are not currently. Making it too risky to lay the likes of Simpson and Pique

Bammy · 17th March 2008, 20:47

I think Pique is too slow to make it as a top class centre back atm. Tbh sometimes this season he has been made to look a fool by reserve players and they are not isolated incidents they happen nearly every game.

However he is young enough to lose some of his bulk and get some pace. I know it's good to be strong but he looks like he's carrying far too much weight.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 17th March 2008, 20:54

He has the same pace as Vidic.

sincher · 17th March 2008, 20:56

Midfield could perhaps be his best position, but he has a better chance of games at United in defence, and if we're going to keep him and nurture him properly, we need to decide now. If he flits between the two positions, he might never make it.

Interestingly, many West Ham fans weren't at all sure that Rio should be a defender when he came through - he had so much ability, but made a lot of mistakes...

Bammy · 17th March 2008, 20:58

Doubtful,but I'll go with it. So,if true, can you tellme the reason why Pique gets beaten frequently by reserve players while Vidic rarely does and, if so, only by the best?

Pogue Mahone · 17th March 2008, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

He has the same pace as Vidic.

I'm not so sure about that. And I don't know if it's speed of mind, or speed of foot but Pique has been getting roasted by reserve team strikers fairly frequently this season, something that only rarely happens to Vidic.

Epic · 17th March 2008, 21:08

Anticipation, positioning - this will come with experience.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 18th March 2008, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

I'm not so sure about that. And I don't know if it's speed of mind, or speed of foot but Pique has been getting roasted by reserve team strikers fairly frequently this season, something that only rarely happens to Vidic.

Because Vidic, like Terry, has good anticipation and positioning that hides that weakness. Which he got with experience from first team football. Pique lacks that experience. So when he comes up against a quick fell a he can't survive easily. Ala Vidic against Bellamy at Anfield last year

ralphie88 · 18th March 2008, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

He has the same pace as Vidic.

Agree with that. I remember seeing Vidic at Spartak and he was the slowest player on the pitch, got absolutely humbled by a very mediocre FC Moscova forward line.

I'm not sure Pique will make it to be honest, but then I never thought Vidic would when I left the stadium that day.

Elliott · 18th March 2008, 16:11

I've got a feeling Pique will be used as bait if we decide to go for a player from Spain this summer. Just a feeling.

jonnymee23 · 18th March 2008, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliott

I've got a feeling Pique will be used as bait if we decide to go for a player from Spain this summer. Just a feeling.

Diego Forlan?

Pique does look like he has put on a few pounds though. Fat bastard. Vidic looks more toned than him which could possibly make him 'look' faster.

Pogue Mahone · 19th March 2008, 19:15

Ok, Gerard, time to show us what you're made of!

13th March 2008, 11:43	#1 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind" Posts: 10,052	Pique Was watching the reserves last night and it suddenly struck me that Pique is an extremely classy footballer, except for one weakness - defending! Every time he brings the ball out of defence he looks like a man amongst boys, composed, strong as an ox, great touch, vision and a decent passer of the ball. But when he has strikers running at him, with the ball at their feet, he just seems to fall to pieces. All they have to do is kick and rush, next thing he's flailing in their wake, grabbing fistfuls of their shirt. Extremely lucky not to get sent off last night. Which begs the question. Should we be grooming him for a role in midfield? By all accounts, that's where he did his best work in Spain. Or is this headless chicken defending just a blip in his development?

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13th March 2008, 12:18	#2 (permalink)
Cold_Boy Amit Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: somewhere i hate to live Posts: 9,379	I have always thought he would be a class Def Mid.

13th March 2008, 13:19	#4 (permalink)
jonnymee23 Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 668	Some of his distribution wasnt that good. I think Jonny Evnas is better tehnically than him. He wasnt composed enough last night when he had to make clearances. Dont know what to make of him on whether he'll make it here or not. He is still young though. If we are grooming him as a DM I would much rather have Rodrigo. He is a class act.

13th March 2008, 16:27	#5 (permalink)
Virtuoso Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 518	Piqué was immense as a defensive midfielder when he was played there in the match where Rodrigo had a shocker and was taken off. I don't know if he could keep that up consistently but I agree that his attributes seem best suited to the position as he is prone to making mistakes. Certainly doesn't look the best with players running at him as the last man.

13th March 2008, 16:46	#6 (permalink)
Alex First team crossdresser Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 39°44′21″N 104°59′5″W Posts: 12,855	Think he will be a pretyt good CB, it will just take him time, as a result it might not happen at United

15th March 2008, 20:48	#13 (permalink)
PS18 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ruud ftw Posts: 622	i agree, although it's only an extra few games, still not really enough. the only top club to really bring through kids successfully in the last few years is Arsenal (although not as well as the media would have you believe) and the price they paid was two years finishing a very distant fourth - a luxury Fergie doesn't have. bit disappointed Piqué or Simpson didn't feature today but then JOS needs games as well, as all squad players do. it's a tough balancing act these days, with such large first-team squads at the top clubs.

17th March 2008, 20:47	#15 (permalink)
Bammy Youth Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 292	I think Pique is too slow to make it as a top class centre back atm. Tbh sometimes this season he has been made to look a fool by reserve players and they are not isolated incidents they happen nearly every game. However he is young enough to lose some of his bulk and get some pace. I know it's good to be strong but he looks like he's carrying far too much weight.

17th March 2008, 20:54	#16 (permalink)
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Football Fanatics Central..new member of the kill Sjarkus club Posts: 18,399	He has the same pace as Vidic.

17th March 2008, 20:56	#17 (permalink)
sincher Les jeux sont Fait Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: YSC Posts: 13,512	Midfield could perhaps be his best position, but he has a better chance of games at United in defence, and if we're going to keep him and nurture him properly, we need to decide now. If he flits between the two positions, he might never make it. Interestingly, many West Ham fans weren't at all sure that Rio should be a defender when he came through - he had so much ability, but made a lot of mistakes...

17th March 2008, 20:58	#18 (permalink)
Bammy Youth Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 292	Doubtful,but I'll go with it. So,if true, can you tellme the reason why Pique gets beaten frequently by reserve players while Vidic rarely does and, if so, only by the best?

17th March 2008, 21:08	#20 (permalink)
Epic First Team Sub Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: no man's land Posts: 5,810	Anticipation, positioning - this will come with experience.

18th March 2008, 16:11	#23 (permalink)
Elliott Likes Loan Stickies Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4,038	I've got a feeling Pique will be used as bait if we decide to go for a player from Spain this summer. Just a feeling.

19th March 2008, 19:15	#25 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind" Posts: 10,052	Ok, Gerard, time to show us what you're made of!