Youth Reports 05/06 & 06/07 & 07/08 seasons

deltakaye · 3rd November 2005, 22:21

With all the flak O'Shea, Fletcher and Richardson has copped over the recent week, I'm interested to find out from regular youth/reserve team watchers what their impressions were as they followed these players come up through the ranks before breaking into the first team.

The call for David Jones to help solve our midfield woes is intriguing when you consider that he's the same age as Fletcher, who was usually regarded as a class above Jones during his youth team years. Though it's worth noting that Nicky Butt was always more highly regarded then Beckham, G Neville and Scholes pre-1st team.

There was also a recent post by someone who wondered whether the way the current generation of youth players is impressing is any different from when the likes of Chadwick, Webber, Notman, Stewart seemed poised to be the new Beckhams/Giggs/Nevilles. This made me run through a rough list of youth players through the years since the Neville generation and see how they've matched not only our optimism about them back then, but also the perpetually hyped-up expectations we have for our youth system.

[I tend to remember the players according to their year of birth, and not the batch they had progressed through the ranks with. This is in no way a comprehensive list but just some notable names that we had hopes for]

1974: Paul Scholes, John O'Kane, Robbie Savage, Simon Davies, Colin McKe, Kevin Pilkington
1975: David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Keith Gillespie, Chris Casper, Ben Thornley, Michael Appleton, Richard Irving, Graeme Tomlinson
1976: Terry Cooke (he looked hot shit in his early matches for the 1st team, didn't he?), Jovan Kirovski, David Johnson, Neil Mustoe, Ashley Westwood
1977: Phil Neville (England's answer to Christian Ziege!), Des Baker, Ronnie Wallwork, Grant Brebner, Jonathan Macken, Michael Clegg, Erik Nevland, Michael Twiss, Paul Teather
1978: John Curtis (England Youth captain, and everyone's hot tip to hit the big time), Philip Mulryne, Jamie Wood, Danny Higginbotham, David Brown, Nick Culkin
1979: Wesley Brown, Alex Notman, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Greening, David Healy, John Thorrington (This batch looked pretty good)
1980: Luke Chadwick (The new Terry Cooke, did really well at Antwerp), Lee Roche, Richard Wellens, George Clegg
1981: John O'Shea (Fans were comparing his performances to Alan Hansen), Danny Webber, Paul Rachubka, Michael Stewart, Kirk Hilton, Mark Lynch
1982: Alan Tate, Paul Tierney, Danny Pugh, Daniel Nardiello, Jimmy Davis (ah, fate), Bojan Djordjic, Marek Szmid
1983: Colin Heath, Ben Muirhead, David Fox, James Jowsey, John Cogger, Kalam Mooniaruck, Neil Wood (favourite with the Championship Manager types)
1984: Darren Fletcher, David Jones, Kieran Richardson, Mads Timm, Luke Steele, Eddie Johnson, Kenny Cooper, Ben Collett, Lee Sims, Lee Lawrence, David Poole
1985: Phillip Bardsley, Christopher Eagles (the new Luke Chadwick?), Ramon Calliste, Adam Eckersley, Phil Picken
1986: Jonathan Spector, Tommy Heaton, Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Paul McShane, Markus Neumayr, Mark Howard, Tommy Lee, Richard Jones, Phil Marsh, Adrian Nevins (when did he leave the club?why?)
1987: Giuseppe Rossi, Gerard Pique, Floribert N'Galula, Lee Martin, Darron Gibson, Ryan Shawcross, Daniel Simpson, Michael Lea, Aaron Burns, Jami Puustinen, Kyle Moran, Lee Crockett, Sean Evans, Frazier Campbell
[I'll stop here]

1. Between the Giggs-Scholes-Nevilles (1973-75) generation and the 1984 group, only three players - Philip Neville (who pretty much progressed with his brother's batch), Wes Brown and John O'Shea can be said to have clinched a regular spot in the first team squad. In 2005, even if Phil was still around, not one of them would make it into our presumed best eleven (with all players fit). That's three players out of eight years of youth team players. Of course this period coincided with our glory years, so chances for progression into the first team was severely limited. David Healy's a regular N.Ireland starter, Jon Macken occasionally gets on the Man City bench, while Greening and Wallwork are regulars for WBA.

2. The 1984-1987 generation looks really good on paper. But if we see the 1973-75 revolution as a one-off miracle, then the rate of success we've had suggests we should lower our expectations. Even now the jury's still out on Fletcher and Richardson.

sincher · 3rd November 2005, 23:03

Very good post and very true. United have a good rate, but we should expect no more than one player per year turning out to be good enough for the first team, on average.

Mr. MUJAC · 3rd November 2005, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by umair

TP, do u rate r jones higher than d jones?

Very different players.....and I rate both very highly...

David is a more creative passer of the ball.....he finds space and brings others into the game....he controls and runs the midfield by getting and giving and moving the ball around.....he also scores goals....

Richie is more defensive....he can break the opposition attacks up, plays a simple ball and tackles well.......he also has a mean streak that is sometimes necessary....he doesn't get forward as much David and plays more of a holding role....

I think they can both play in the same team together.....as David needs a strong ball winner next to him.....

Hope this helps

TP

Mr. MUJAC · 3rd November 2005, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltakaye

With all the flak O'Shea, Fletcher and Richardson has copped over the recent week, I'm interested to find out from regular youth/reserve team watchers what their impressions were as they followed these players come up through the ranks before breaking into the first team.

The call for David Jones to help solve our midfield woes is intriguing when you consider that he's the same age as Fletcher, who was usually regarded as a class above Jones during his youth team years. Though it's worth noting that Nicky Butt was always more highly regarded then Beckham, G Neville and Scholes pre-1st team.

There was also a recent post by someone who wondered whether the way the current generation of youth players is impressing is any different from when the likes of Chadwick, Webber, Notman, Stewart seemed poised to be the new Beckhams/Giggs/Nevilles. This made me run through a rough list of youth players through the years since the Neville generation and see how they've matched not only our optimism about them back then, but also the perpetually hyped-up expectations we have for our youth system.

[I tend to remember the players according to their year of birth, and not the batch they had progressed through the ranks with. This is in no way a comprehensive list but just some notable names that we had hopes for]

1974: Paul Scholes, John O'Kane, Robbie Savage, Simon Davies, Colin McKe, Kevin Pilkington
1975: David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Keith Gillespie, Chris Casper, Ben Thornley, Michael Appleton, Richard Irving, Graeme Tomlinson
1976: Terry Cooke (he looked hot shit in his early matches for the 1st team, didn't he?), Jovan Kirovski, David Johnson, Neil Mustoe, Ashley Westwood
1977: Phil Neville (England's answer to Christian Ziege!), Des Baker, Ronnie Wallwork, Grant Brebner, Jonathan Macken, Michael Clegg, Erik Nevland, Michael Twiss, Paul Teather
1978: John Curtis (England Youth captain, and everyone's hot tip to hit the big time), Philip Mulryne, Jamie Wood, Danny Higginbotham, David Brown, Nick Culkin
1979: Wesley Brown, Alex Notman, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Greening, David Healy, John Thorrington (This batch looked pretty good)
1980: Luke Chadwick (The new Terry Cooke, did really well at Antwerp), Lee Roche, Richard Wellens, George Clegg
1981: John O'Shea (Fans were comparing his performances to Alan Hansen), Danny Webber, Paul Rachubka, Michael Stewart, Kirk Hilton, Mark Lynch
1982: Alan Tate, Paul Tierney, Danny Pugh, Daniel Nardiello, Jimmy Davis (ah, fate), Bojan Djordjic, Marek Szmid
1983: Colin Heath, Ben Muirhead, David Fox, James Jowsey, John Cogger, Kalam Mooniaruck, Neil Wood (favourite with the Championship Manager types)
1984: Darren Fletcher, David Jones, Kieran Richardson, Mads Timm, Luke Steele, Eddie Johnson, Kenny Cooper, Ben Collett, Lee Sims, Lee Lawrence, David Poole
1985: Phillip Bardsley, Christopher Eagles (the new Luke Chadwick?), Ramon Calliste, Adam Eckersley, Phil Picken
1986: Jonathan Spector, Tommy Heaton, Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Paul McShane, Markus Neumayr, Mark Howard, Tommy Lee, Richard Jones, Phil Marsh, Adrian Nevins (when did he leave the club?why?)
1987: Giuseppe Rossi, Gerard Pique, Floribert N'Galula, Lee Martin, Darron Gibson, Ryan Shawcross, Daniel Simpson, Michael Lea, Aaron Burns, Jami Puustinen, Kyle Moran, Lee Crockett, Sean Evans, Frazier Campbell
[I'll stop here]

1. Between the Giggs-Scholes-Nevilles (1973-75) generation and the 1984 group, only three players - Philip Neville (who pretty much progressed with his brother's batch), Wes Brown and John O'Shea can be said to have clinched a regular spot in the first team squad. In 2005, even if Phil was still around, not one of them would make it into our presumed best eleven (with all players fit). That's three players out of eight years of youth team players. Of course this period coincided with our glory years, so chances for progression into the first team was severely limited. David Healy's a regular N.Ireland starter, Jon Macken occasionally gets on the Man City bench, while Greening and Wallwork are regulars for WBA.

2. The 1984-1987 generation looks really good on paper. But if we see the 1973-75 revolution as a one-off miracle, then the rate of success we've had suggests we should lower our expectations. Even now the jury's still out on Fletcher and Richardson.

Very good post.......the important thing to remember is that if you have a great youth team.....say 1992...then those players will reach the first team and stay there for a long time......that means that the next six or seven generations cannot get into the side.....

Some of them are clearly exceptional as early developers.....Wes Brown....while others who are perhaps late developers are never given the chance....we will never know how good they might have been becuase they couldn't get a decent run in the first team playing alongside seasoned professionals.....to allow their ability to develop.....John Curtis never really stood a chance because of Gary Neville and Denis Irwin.....then he went to struggling sides .......

The biggest problem with our youth system is that we breed players to play the United way....when they move on....other clubs tell them not to pass the ball, not to beat a man, not to play triangles....etc etc.....they have to unlearn which makes them look shit!....and secondly...other players are trying to make a point because 'you were once at United hey...youre not that special'...and so on...

I once had a long conversation with Terry Cooke who told me that it took him nearly four years to 'unlearn' what United taught him.....he was ten yards ahead in terms of his thinking than most other players....I was talking to David Jones about this.....it is why he chose PNE over a couple of other clubs...apparently Sheff Utd wanted him but their style of play would have killed him.....but once a player leaves United...they can't pick who they want to play for....a contract is a contract!

I think a better judgement of our system is not how many first team players we develop (35% by the way and 19% go on to be internationals) BUT how many of our youth players make it in football - a staggering 69%....no other club in the world can compete with this....many of the players you mention are playing league football..

All interesting stuff!

By the way....even though Fletch and Jonah were born in the same year...there is a fottball year between them......Fletch played in the youth team a year ahead of Jonah ....September 1st is the cut off date....

quiet_united · 3rd November 2005, 23:57

Wow Interesting stuff their delta and Tony

Thanks for the infos!

quiet_united · 4th November 2005, 00:02

Tony, do you have any info on Sebustian Beckett or is he in our youth ? Thanks mate

Mr. MUJAC · 4th November 2005, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiet_united

Tony, do you have any info on Sebustian Beckett or is he in our youth ? Thanks mate

Seb Beckett came through a couple of years ago....Welsh International Schoolboy.....also think he played for their under 17's. However he was released two years ago....not sure why....but he wasn't with United after 2003/04....

Hope this helps...

TP

quiet_united · 4th November 2005, 04:56

Thanks Tony, You've been helpful

andersj · 4th November 2005, 06:19

"Sorry Anders........'blinder' in English jargon means he had a great game....'played out of his skin'......he is definitely not selfish....hard tackling ball winner, can mix it, but likes to play the simple ball....

I went to Zurich to watch him in the Blue Stars Tournament in Zurich in May and he was excellent for someone so young....."

Great. Thank you. Sort of imagined that a blinder were something that a horse use to keep his eyes forward. :-)

GledTheRed · 4th November 2005, 06:28

Jon Maken is @ Palce is he not?

deltakaye · 4th November 2005, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by GledTheRed

Jon Maken is @ Palce is he not?

ah, sorry, you're right - didn't notice he moved.

Mr. MUJAC · 4th November 2005, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltakaye

With all the flak O'Shea, Fletcher and Richardson has copped over the recent week, I'm interested to find out from regular youth/reserve team watchers what their impressions were as they followed these players come up through the ranks before breaking into the first team.

The call for David Jones to help solve our midfield woes is intriguing when you consider that he's the same age as Fletcher, who was usually regarded as a class above Jones during his youth team years. Though it's worth noting that Nicky Butt was always more highly regarded then Beckham, G Neville and Scholes pre-1st team.

There was also a recent post by someone who wondered whether the way the current generation of youth players is impressing is any different from when the likes of Chadwick, Webber, Notman, Stewart seemed poised to be the new Beckhams/Giggs/Nevilles. This made me run through a rough list of youth players through the years since the Neville generation and see how they've matched not only our optimism about them back then, but also the perpetually hyped-up expectations we have for our youth system.

[I tend to remember the players according to their year of birth, and not the batch they had progressed through the ranks with. This is in no way a comprehensive list but just some notable names that we had hopes for]

1974: Paul Scholes, John O'Kane, Robbie Savage, Simon Davies, Colin McKe, Kevin Pilkington
1975: David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Keith Gillespie, Chris Casper, Ben Thornley, Michael Appleton, Richard Irving, Graeme Tomlinson
1976: Terry Cooke (he looked hot shit in his early matches for the 1st team, didn't he?), Jovan Kirovski, David Johnson, Neil Mustoe, Ashley Westwood
1977: Phil Neville (England's answer to Christian Ziege!), Des Baker, Ronnie Wallwork, Grant Brebner, Jonathan Macken, Michael Clegg, Erik Nevland, Michael Twiss, Paul Teather
1978: John Curtis (England Youth captain, and everyone's hot tip to hit the big time), Philip Mulryne, Jamie Wood, Danny Higginbotham, David Brown, Nick Culkin
1979: Wesley Brown, Alex Notman, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Greening, David Healy, John Thorrington (This batch looked pretty good)
1980: Luke Chadwick (The new Terry Cooke, did really well at Antwerp), Lee Roche, Richard Wellens, George Clegg
1981: John O'Shea (Fans were comparing his performances to Alan Hansen), Danny Webber, Paul Rachubka, Michael Stewart, Kirk Hilton, Mark Lynch
1982: Alan Tate, Paul Tierney, Danny Pugh, Daniel Nardiello, Jimmy Davis (ah, fate), Bojan Djordjic, Marek Szmid
1983: Colin Heath, Ben Muirhead, David Fox, James Jowsey, John Cogger, Kalam Mooniaruck, Neil Wood (favourite with the Championship Manager types)
1984: Darren Fletcher, David Jones, Kieran Richardson, Mads Timm, Luke Steele, Eddie Johnson, Kenny Cooper, Ben Collett, Lee Sims, Lee Lawrence, David Poole
1985: Phillip Bardsley, Christopher Eagles (the new Luke Chadwick?), Ramon Calliste, Adam Eckersley, Phil Picken
1986: Jonathan Spector, Tommy Heaton, Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Paul McShane, Markus Neumayr, Mark Howard, Tommy Lee, Richard Jones, Phil Marsh, Adrian Nevins (when did he leave the club?why?)
1987: Giuseppe Rossi, Gerard Pique, Floribert N'Galula, Lee Martin, Darron Gibson, Ryan Shawcross, Daniel Simpson, Michael Lea, Aaron Burns, Jami Puustinen, Kyle Moran, Lee Crockett, Sean Evans, Frazier Campbell
[I'll stop here]

1. Between the Giggs-Scholes-Nevilles (1973-75) generation and the 1984 group, only three players - Philip Neville (who pretty much progressed with his brother's batch), Wes Brown and John O'Shea can be said to have clinched a regular spot in the first team squad. In 2005, even if Phil was still around, not one of them would make it into our presumed best eleven (with all players fit). That's three players out of eight years of youth team players. Of course this period coincided with our glory years, so chances for progression into the first team was severely limited. David Healy's a regular N.Ireland starter, Jon Macken occasionally gets on the Man City bench, while Greening and Wallwork are regulars for WBA.

2. The 1984-1987 generation looks really good on paper. But if we see the 1973-75 revolution as a one-off miracle, then the rate of success we've had suggests we should lower our expectations. Even now the jury's still out on Fletcher and Richardson.

Just a final thought.......Tomlinson, Nevland, Greening, Djordjic and Cooper were all bought from other clubs and were too old to play in our youth team....they were actually 'developed' elsewhere.....although others such as Richardson et al...were also snapped up from other clubs...they were all under 16 at the time...

Adrian Nevins never played in the youth team either...although he came through the ranks...and left the club a couple of years ago due to an 'attitudinal issue'.......

Mr. MUJAC · 5th November 2005, 19:17

FYI

United's under 18's defeated Crewe 4-0 this morning at Crewe...United led 1-0 at half-time through a Sean Evans goal....further strikes in the second period from Fraizer Campbell, Kyle Moran and Danny Rose made it a comfortable victory for the young reds!

Team: Zieler, Gray, Lee, Gibson, Cathcart, Rose, Mullan, Hewson, Campbell, Moran, S. Evans Subs: Marsh (11), Amos, Fagan (10), Lea (8), Puustinen

Michael Lea who has missed most of the season with a torn thigh muscle, played the last 20 minutes.

Other news....Ryan Shawcross has had an allegic reaction to smething and has come out in a rash of some sort.....Jon Evans picked up a knock in Thursday's reserve game versus Wigan.

More info to follow....

Escobar · 5th November 2005, 20:18

Tony, how highly do you Zieler rate? I read some reports from Germany, and they rave about him, according to them he's an amazing talent. How do you see that?

Mr. MUJAC · 7th November 2005, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel04

Tony, how highly do you Zieler rate? I read some reports from Germany, and they rave about him, according to them he's an amazing talent. How do you see that?

Michel.....Zieler looks very promising...he is tall and well built...good on crosses either catching or punching....an excellent shot stopper and has a safe pair of hands....he dominates the area well and has bags of confidence..

On the down side...he doesn't communicate stronly enough with his defenders....this could be a language thing (although his English is OK) or that he is playing with different defenders each week and they have not got an good understanding as yet.....

Finally.....there a lot of good young keepers at the club right now...Steele, Foster, Heaton....so he has stiff competition.....

I expect him to be named as the first choice keeper for the FA Youth Cup with either Crockett or Amos as the reserve.

Hope this helps.....

andersj · 7th November 2005, 15:33

Read that he is 185 cm, sounded small because I saw a picture of him next to Fergie and he seemed very, very long.

Dino · 8th November 2005, 10:49

Hey guys,how much do you rate neumayr?I read a few years ago that we had signed a talented german who was quite a juvenile deliquent in Germany and i suppose its neumayr.

Escobar · 8th November 2005, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino

Hey guys,how much do you rate neumayr?I read a few years ago that we had signed a talented german who was quite a juvenile deliquent in Germany and i suppose its neumayr.

There was a lot of hype in Germany when they signed him, but didnt justify it yet, accordingto the reports on this forum.

Dino · 8th November 2005, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel04

There was a lot of hype in Germany when they signed him, but didnt justify it yet, accordingto the reports on this forum.

Hope he justifies the hype.Tanks for the info mate.

Mr. MUJAC · 8th November 2005, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino

Hey guys,how much do you rate neumayr?I read a few years ago that we had signed a talented german who was quite a juvenile deliquent in Germany and i suppose its neumayr.

Never heard any reports about problems with Neumayr...........he was well recommended by Peter Braund and after a slow start seems to be playing well in the reserves this season....although not very physical...he is an excellent crosser and takes a good free-kick (a la Beckham)....he has also been responsible for setting up quite a few goals this season.....

Since he has been in Manchester...he has not had any problems either that I am aware of.....normally these things reflect in how many games you play...

Mr. MUJAC · 8th November 2005, 12:38

FYI

I understand that United offered to buy out the remainder of Puustinen's contract as he was not going to make the grade.....however, Jami has refused so he is staying put......thus he is not getting any games!

More info to follow...

oskarutd · 8th November 2005, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyPark

Never heard any reports about problems with Neumayr...........he was well recommended by Peter Braund and after a slow start seems to be playing well in the reserves this season....although not very physical...he is an excellent crosser and takes a good free-kick (a la Beckham)....he has also been responsible for setting up quite a few goals this season.....

Since he has been in Manchester...he has not had any problems either that I am aware of.....normally these things reflect in how many games you play...

He had problems in Germany the year before he joined us.

Mr. MUJAC · 8th November 2005, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskarutd

He had problems in Germany the year before he joined us.

Hi Oskar,

Do you know what they were?

oskarutd · 8th November 2005, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyPark

Hi Oskar,

Do you know what they were?

He had some problem with a coach. I think it is was with the national age team.

Elessar · 8th November 2005, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyPark

FYI

I understand that United offered to buy out the remainder of Puustinen's contract as he was not going to make the grade.....however, Jami has refused so he is staying put......thus he is not getting any games!

More info to follow...

my god, it is like a reality show at the academy. Maybe that is something for MUTV.

The Wizard · 8th November 2005, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elessar

my god, it is like a reality show at the academy. Maybe that is something for MUTV.

Elliott · 8th November 2005, 22:10

the lad johnny evans seems to be doing very well. i've never seen him play. so what kinda defender is he? cultured? hard as nail? how is his pace? must say being included in the squad for the lille game is very impressive considering his age and number of reserve games

5th November 2005, 19:17	#293 (permalink)
Mr. MUJAC Talent spotter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Louis Rocca started it all... Posts: 2,234	Youth Update FYI United's under 18's defeated Crewe 4-0 this morning at Crewe...United led 1-0 at half-time through a Sean Evans goal....further strikes in the second period from Fraizer Campbell, Kyle Moran and Danny Rose made it a comfortable victory for the young reds! Team: Zieler, Gray, Lee, Gibson, Cathcart, Rose, Mullan, Hewson, Campbell, Moran, S. Evans Subs: Marsh (11), Amos, Fagan (10), Lea (8), Puustinen Michael Lea who has missed most of the season with a torn thigh muscle, played the last 20 minutes. Other news....Ryan Shawcross has had an allegic reaction to smething and has come out in a rash of some sort.....Jon Evans picked up a knock in Thursday's reserve game versus Wigan. More info to follow....

8th November 2005, 12:38	#301 (permalink)
Mr. MUJAC Talent spotter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Louis Rocca started it all... Posts: 2,234	Jami Puustinen FYI I understand that United offered to buy out the remainder of Puustinen's contract as he was not going to make the grade.....however, Jami has refused so he is staying put......thus he is not getting any games! More info to follow...

3rd November 2005, 22:21	#281 (permalink)
deltakaye Youth Team Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 117	With all the flak O'Shea, Fletcher and Richardson has copped over the recent week, I'm interested to find out from regular youth/reserve team watchers what their impressions were as they followed these players come up through the ranks before breaking into the first team. The call for David Jones to help solve our midfield woes is intriguing when you consider that he's the same age as Fletcher, who was usually regarded as a class above Jones during his youth team years. Though it's worth noting that Nicky Butt was always more highly regarded then Beckham, G Neville and Scholes pre-1st team. There was also a recent post by someone who wondered whether the way the current generation of youth players is impressing is any different from when the likes of Chadwick, Webber, Notman, Stewart seemed poised to be the new Beckhams/Giggs/Nevilles. This made me run through a rough list of youth players through the years since the Neville generation and see how they've matched not only our optimism about them back then, but also the perpetually hyped-up expectations we have for our youth system. [I tend to remember the players according to their year of birth, and not the batch they had progressed through the ranks with. This is in no way a comprehensive list but just some notable names that we had hopes for] 1974: Paul Scholes, John O'Kane, Robbie Savage, Simon Davies, Colin McKe, Kevin Pilkington 1975: David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Keith Gillespie, Chris Casper, Ben Thornley, Michael Appleton, Richard Irving, Graeme Tomlinson 1976: Terry Cooke (he looked hot shit in his early matches for the 1st team, didn't he?), Jovan Kirovski, David Johnson, Neil Mustoe, Ashley Westwood 1977: Phil Neville (England's answer to Christian Ziege!), Des Baker, Ronnie Wallwork, Grant Brebner, Jonathan Macken, Michael Clegg, Erik Nevland, Michael Twiss, Paul Teather 1978: John Curtis (England Youth captain, and everyone's hot tip to hit the big time), Philip Mulryne, Jamie Wood, Danny Higginbotham, David Brown, Nick Culkin 1979: Wesley Brown, Alex Notman, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Greening, David Healy, John Thorrington (This batch looked pretty good) 1980: Luke Chadwick (The new Terry Cooke, did really well at Antwerp), Lee Roche, Richard Wellens, George Clegg 1981: John O'Shea (Fans were comparing his performances to Alan Hansen), Danny Webber, Paul Rachubka, Michael Stewart, Kirk Hilton, Mark Lynch 1982: Alan Tate, Paul Tierney, Danny Pugh, Daniel Nardiello, Jimmy Davis (ah, fate), Bojan Djordjic, Marek Szmid 1983: Colin Heath, Ben Muirhead, David Fox, James Jowsey, John Cogger, Kalam Mooniaruck, Neil Wood (favourite with the Championship Manager types) 1984: Darren Fletcher, David Jones, Kieran Richardson, Mads Timm, Luke Steele, Eddie Johnson, Kenny Cooper, Ben Collett, Lee Sims, Lee Lawrence, David Poole 1985: Phillip Bardsley, Christopher Eagles (the new Luke Chadwick?), Ramon Calliste, Adam Eckersley, Phil Picken 1986: Jonathan Spector, Tommy Heaton, Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Paul McShane, Markus Neumayr, Mark Howard, Tommy Lee, Richard Jones, Phil Marsh, Adrian Nevins (when did he leave the club?why?) 1987: Giuseppe Rossi, Gerard Pique, Floribert N'Galula, Lee Martin, Darron Gibson, Ryan Shawcross, Daniel Simpson, Michael Lea, Aaron Burns, Jami Puustinen, Kyle Moran, Lee Crockett, Sean Evans, Frazier Campbell [I'll stop here] 1. Between the Giggs-Scholes-Nevilles (1973-75) generation and the 1984 group, only three players - Philip Neville (who pretty much progressed with his brother's batch), Wes Brown and John O'Shea can be said to have clinched a regular spot in the first team squad. In 2005, even if Phil was still around, not one of them would make it into our presumed best eleven (with all players fit). That's three players out of eight years of youth team players. Of course this period coincided with our glory years, so chances for progression into the first team was severely limited. David Healy's a regular N.Ireland starter, Jon Macken occasionally gets on the Man City bench, while Greening and Wallwork are regulars for WBA. 2. The 1984-1987 generation looks really good on paper. But if we see the 1973-75 revolution as a one-off miracle, then the rate of success we've had suggests we should lower our expectations. Even now the jury's still out on Fletcher and Richardson.

3rd November 2005, 23:03	#282 (permalink)
sincher Les jeux sont Fait Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: YSC Posts: 13,811	Very good post and very true. United have a good rate, but we should expect no more than one player per year turning out to be good enough for the first team, on average.

3rd November 2005, 23:57	#285 (permalink)
quiet_united Vietnamese Red Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mars Posts: 2,437	Wow Interesting stuff their delta and Tony Thanks for the infos!

4th November 2005, 00:02	#286 (permalink)
quiet_united Vietnamese Red Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mars Posts: 2,437	Tony, do you have any info on Sebustian Beckett or is he in our youth ? Thanks mate

4th November 2005, 04:56	#288 (permalink)
quiet_united Vietnamese Red Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mars Posts: 2,437	Thanks Tony, You've been helpful

4th November 2005, 06:19	#289 (permalink)
andersj Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 570	"Sorry Anders........'blinder' in English jargon means he had a great game....'played out of his skin'......he is definitely not selfish....hard tackling ball winner, can mix it, but likes to play the simple ball.... I went to Zurich to watch him in the Blue Stars Tournament in Zurich in May and he was excellent for someone so young....." Great. Thank you. Sort of imagined that a blinder were something that a horse use to keep his eyes forward. :-)

4th November 2005, 06:28	#290 (permalink)
GledTheRed Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Boozer Posts: 3,312	Jon Maken is @ Palce is he not?

5th November 2005, 20:18	#294 (permalink)
Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Federer-Land Posts: 11,984	Tony, how highly do you Zieler rate? I read some reports from Germany, and they rave about him, according to them he's an amazing talent. How do you see that?

7th November 2005, 15:33	#296 (permalink)
andersj Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 570	Read that he is 185 cm, sounded small because I saw a picture of him next to Fergie and he seemed very, very long.

8th November 2005, 10:49	#297 (permalink)
Dino Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,321	Hey guys,how much do you rate neumayr?I read a few years ago that we had signed a talented german who was quite a juvenile deliquent in Germany and i suppose its neumayr.

8th November 2005, 22:10	#307 (permalink)
Elliott Likes Loan Stickies Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4,576	the lad johnny evans seems to be doing very well. i've never seen him play. so what kinda defender is he? cultured? hard as nail? how is his pace? must say being included in the squad for the lille game is very impressive considering his age and number of reserve games