26 into 18 doesn't go

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 15:01

Yeah, and that bloke on here who has sweated more blood, tears and, erm sweat, than the team put together.

charleysurf · 13th May 2008, 15:20

If we start with
VDS
Brown Rio Vidic Evra
Hargreaves Carrick Scholes
Ronaldo Rooney Park

Then you have only 6 bench places left besides Kusczcak:
Tevez is a cert.
Fletcher, Giggs, Silvestre will probably make it.
Then 2 places left for Anderson, Nani, Pique, Saha, O'Shea.

Does Fergie pick Saha ahead of a valued squad player like O'Shea, or 2 big money signings like Nani and Anderson in whom he places a lot of faith in the future?

I can see the value of having Saha on the bench if we go behind and are struggling to get behind Chelsea. But Fergie will have to make a tough decision to leave out a player who has contributed a lot more than Louis has this season.

MrMarcello · 13th May 2008, 15:20

I'd have Silvestre over O'Shea since the former can actually put in good performances in defense where cover is short at the moment. As for O'Shea in midfield, Anderson, Fletcher and Hargreaves do that job far better.

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleysurf

Does Fergie pick Saha ahead of a valued squad player like O'Shea, or 2 big money signings like Nani and Anderson in whom he places a lot of faith in the future?

I can see the value of having Saha on the bench if we go behind and are struggling to get behind Chelsea. But Fergie will have to make a tough decision to leave out a player who has contributed a lot more than Louis has this season.

thanks for para-phrasing the initial question from c80 posts ago mate! What would you do?

Polaroid · 13th May 2008, 17:30

Starting
GK - Van Der Sar
D - Brown
D - Evra
D - Rio
D - Vidic
M - Hargreaves
M - Carrick
M - Scholes
F - Nani
F - Ronaldo
F - Rooney

Bench
GK - Kuszczak
D - Silvestre
D - O' Shea
M - Fletcher
M - Anderson
F - Giggs
F - Tevez

Nani ahead of Tevez and Giggs for the pace and width to stretch Chelski
Park has performed admirably well recently and I would hate for him to miss out especially after his efforts against Barca in the semis. However for the overall balance of the bench, only two slots are allocated for the forward positions and I can't see beyond Giggs and Tevez for this match.
Saha would have been an excellent alternative but he lacks match sharpness so he will be out for me.
Neville is pretty much out of the equation and O' Shea's versatility places him ahead of Pique.
So, there's the 18.

Dublin Red · 13th May 2008, 17:31

I'd pick Nani ahead of Saha for this one. Saha doesn't deserve to play in such a big game given his antics in his time at the club. With a bit of luck Saha will break a nail between now and then a declare himself unfit to play. Nani is the future Saha is on his way out.

Granted I'm bitter about Sahas lack of commitment to the club which could be clouding my judgement on the issue.

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dublin Red

I'd pick Nani ahead of Saha for this one. Saha doesn't deserve to play in such a big game given his antics in his time at the club. With a bit of luck Saha will break a nail between now and then a declare himself unfit to play. Nani is the future Saha is on his way out.

Granted I'm bitter about Sahas lack of commitment to the club which could be clouding my judgement on the issue.

Quite a strong argument that a player is less cuplable for being injured than for blatantly nutting an opponent and getting himself sent off in a critical, potentially-title-deciding match, no?

afrocentricity · 13th May 2008, 17:46

This thread was going so well...

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 17:50

Yes, you are right, this is not a player-slagging thread - but, if 'deservingness' is part of the criteria, being injury-prone isn't necessarily the only consideration.

Raven_Blade · 13th May 2008, 17:54

starting 11

----------Van Der Sar--------
-Brown--Ferdinand--Vidic--Evra-
-Hargreaves--Scholes--Carrick-
-Ronaldo----Tevez----Rooney-

subs
Kuszczak
Silvestre
Fletcher
Anderson
Nani
Giggs
Saha

Its so difficult to leave out Foster, Neville, Pique, O'Shea and Park but it must be done. I put Scholes in the middle where he can dictate play and avoid being caught on the wing where he could make a rash tackle, Carrick can do that role better. Rooney can do the running down the left for us with his pace and power. Tevez will need to work hard up front like he did against Barcelona.

Now if something happens to Brown/Ferdinand/Vidic; Hargreaves can fill in at RB. Silvestre can cover for Evra.

Fletcher and Anderson are big game players and they will give more strength and mobility against the Chelsea midfield when required.

Nani and Giggs will be impact subs who can change the game for us with some magic.

Saha is our only out and out striker and this could be the game of his life if needed. He is fresh enough and this can be his big chance for redemption.

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 17:56

Interesting thoughts; personally, don't see SAF leaving Park out of the entire squad in a million years, especially as he has made the starting XI in pretty much every major European tie that he has been fit for.

Raven_Blade · 13th May 2008, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by buildabonfire

Interesting thoughts; personally, don't see SAF leaving Park out of the entire squad in a million years, especially as he has made the starting XI in pretty much every major European tie that he has been fit for.

Thats a big decision. Park is very good against European opposition but Chelsea are different. Thats what worries me. Players like Park deserve to play but for the good of the team we must get the right squad to overcome this opposition. What is the right group...?

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven_Blade

Thats a big decision. Park is very good against European opposition but Chelsea are different. Thats what worries me. Players like Park deserve to play but for the good of the team we must get the right squad to overcome this opposition. What is the right group...?

For me, I answered that in post #1

But I do think Park's energy, mobility and endeavour may have a role to play, especially against Chelsea's midfield.

The two big decisions SAF seems to have made in recent weeks are:

Not to play Scholes and Giggs in the same starting XI
Not to play Ronaldo and Giggs on opposite wings

Dublin Red · 13th May 2008, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by buildabonfire

Yes, you are right, this is not a player-slagging thread - but, if 'deservingness' is part of the criteria, being injury-prone isn't necessarily the only consideration.

I'm not slagging Saha, just expressing my opinion that he is not commited to the Club and therefore does not deserve to be picked ahead of Nani. If I felt all his injuries were genuine I would not feel the way I do about him.

Apologies if my post appears a little strong but I like to explain why I hold certain views when posting.

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dublin Red

I'm not slagging Saha, just expressing my opinion that he is not commited to the Club and therefore does not deserve to be picked ahead of Nani. If I felt all his injuries were genuine I would not feel the way I do about him.

Apologies if my post appears a little strong but I like to explain why I hold certain views when posting.

Sure. My point is, if Saha's commitment is questionable - if, mind, I'm not a doctor - then surely so is Nani's temperament?

Dublin Red · 13th May 2008, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by buildabonfire

Sure. My point is, if Saha's commitment is questionable - if, mind, I'm not a doctor - then surely so is Nani's temperament?

I do see you point of view but temprement can be instilled in Nani as it has been in a number of young lads that have made the grade at United . Lacking commitment is a lot worse in IMO.

I'll leave my anti Saha rant at that as I don't want to disrail this thread, I'm sure we will get the chance to debate Saha's commitment to the club at some stage in the near future.

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 19:10

I'm genuinely worried that temperamenet can't be instilled into Nani in one week!

He lost the plot during the medium pressure of the home West hame game which we were already winning.

The niggly bastard likes of Cashley and Terry and fecking Jon Obi kunting Mikel will have noticed this and will be setting out to provoke him in the much, much, much more intense atmosphere of the Champions League final.

Recipe for disaster.

buildabonfire · 13th May 2008, 19:11

or even temperament

jasonrh · 13th May 2008, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wancolos

Swap Fletch for Nani and there you have it.

You're madder than a Barn Elf with a flaming rabbit up his arse.

Fletchinho?

Pull the other one, it cums.

jasonrh · 13th May 2008, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dublin Red

I'm not slagging Saha, just expressing my opinion that he is not commited to the Club and therefore does not deserve to be picked ahead of Nani. If I felt all his injuries were genuine I would not feel the way I do about him.

Apologies if my post appears a little strong but I like to explain why I hold certain views when posting.

Aside from being an award winning and prestigious medical doctor with a specialty in injuries of the muscle and cartilage, when did you become a certified mind reader and diviner of all ultimate truth?

afrocentricity · 13th May 2008, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonrh

Aside from being an award winning and prestigious medical doctor with a specialty in injuries of the muscle and cartilage, when did you become a certified mind reader and diviner of all ultimate truth?

Its the same old chestnut...

anyway, I really feel confident. I did last year too but I think as long as we don't set out to contain like we did last year we can beat them... I'd hate for us to be needing a goal in the dying minutes but if that scenario happens and we really need to go for it I cant see Chelsea holding us off.

Of course I get pangs of anxiety every now and again, like just now. I'm going to sit down for a while...

dev1l · 13th May 2008, 20:33

Imo Fergie will base his decision on 2 factors in this order:

a) the needs of the team
b) prefer the players that ll be at OT next year.

I remember that the year Robson retired, Fergie had left him out of a cup final - cannot remember which was but if my memory serves me well, Sharpe was preferred to Robson on the bench.

afrocentricity · 13th May 2008, 20:35

Who do you think won't be here next year?

dev1l · 13th May 2008, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrocentricity

Who do you think won't be here next year?

Silvestre, Saha and Pique (maybe)

afrocentricity · 13th May 2008, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev1l

Silvestre, Saha and Pique (maybe)

Ok, but barring Pique wouldn't that be detrimental to squad depth...

lao · 13th May 2008, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by buildabonfire

Pretty much everyone seems to agree on that starting line-up, although a couple go for Park over Tevez in a 4-5-1. I can see either easily happening but would prefer the 4-3-3. Interesting that no-one is chanting 4-4-2 on here. How times have changed.

Do have in mind that Hargreaves can push out on the right flank and become a right midfielder making it more or less 4-4-2 with Ronnie on the other side...

Dublin Red · 13th May 2008, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonrh

Aside from being an award winning and prestigious medical doctor with a specialty in injuries of the muscle and cartilage, when did you become a certified mind reader and diviner of all ultimate truth?

Sorry I didn't realise I needed medical qualifications to be capable of forming an opinion. I do know that he refused to play when asked by the Manager to do so. I assume the club had medical experts that said he was fit enough to play at the time.

dev1l · 13th May 2008, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrocentricity

Ok, but barring Pique wouldn't that be detrimental to squad depth...

Could be, but Silvestre is in his last year of the contract and my impression is that he prefers first team football. Pique though younger, too wants more first team football.

On the other hand, Fergie seems to be fed up with Saha.

Do not forget that Neville will be back next year and do not be surprised if he ll back to his best. Remember how Scholes was rejuvenated when he got back from a long period out.

(My impression is that Fergie is following Milan's strategy with ageing footballers.)

afrocentricity · 13th May 2008, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev1l

Could be, but Silvestre is in his last year of the contract and my impression is that he prefers first team football. Pique though younger, too wants more first team football.

On the other hand, Fergie seems to be fed up with Saha.

Do not forget that Neville will be back next year and do not be surprised if he ll back to his best. Remember how Scholes was rejuvenated when he got back from a long period out.

(My impression is that Fergie is following Milan's strategy with ageing footballers.)

Think you may have missed my point, if Tweety and Saha go then the only backup for Evra and Tev/Roon is O'Shea and er... O'Shea(thats a joke btw)/Ronnie.

That leads to players playing a lot and getting tired.
It also means that players aren't pushed in their positions, competition for places is a good thing.

Hopefully they stay and we get a striker... time will tell.

Anyway getting back to the thread I doubt this factors into SAF's thinking, I think its all about the first part of your post and that's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev1l

a) the needs of the team

13th May 2008, 15:01	#81 (permalink)
buildabonfire Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 927	Yeah, and that bloke on here who has sweated more blood, tears and, erm sweat, than the team put together.

13th May 2008, 15:20	#82 (permalink)
charleysurf Talks sense Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,712	If we start with VDS Brown Rio Vidic Evra Hargreaves Carrick Scholes Ronaldo Rooney Park Then you have only 6 bench places left besides Kusczcak: Tevez is a cert. Fletcher, Giggs, Silvestre will probably make it. Then 2 places left for Anderson, Nani, Pique, Saha, O'Shea. Does Fergie pick Saha ahead of a valued squad player like O'Shea, or 2 big money signings like Nani and Anderson in whom he places a lot of faith in the future? I can see the value of having Saha on the bench if we go behind and are struggling to get behind Chelsea. But Fergie will have to make a tough decision to leave out a player who has contributed a lot more than Louis has this season.

13th May 2008, 15:20	#83 (permalink)
MrMarcello First Team Regular Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Saha's hospital room Posts: 18,404	I'd have Silvestre over O'Shea since the former can actually put in good performances in defense where cover is short at the moment. As for O'Shea in midfield, Anderson, Fletcher and Hargreaves do that job far better.

13th May 2008, 17:30	#85 (permalink)
Polaroid Youth Team Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 212	Starting GK - Van Der Sar D - Brown D - Evra D - Rio D - Vidic M - Hargreaves M - Carrick M - Scholes F - Nani F - Ronaldo F - Rooney Bench GK - Kuszczak D - Silvestre D - O' Shea M - Fletcher M - Anderson F - Giggs F - Tevez Nani ahead of Tevez and Giggs for the pace and width to stretch Chelski Park has performed admirably well recently and I would hate for him to miss out especially after his efforts against Barca in the semis. However for the overall balance of the bench, only two slots are allocated for the forward positions and I can't see beyond Giggs and Tevez for this match. Saha would have been an excellent alternative but he lacks match sharpness so he will be out for me. Neville is pretty much out of the equation and O' Shea's versatility places him ahead of Pique. So, there's the 18.

13th May 2008, 17:31	#86 (permalink)
Dublin Red Youth Team Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Who's asking ? Posts: 318	I'd pick Nani ahead of Saha for this one. Saha doesn't deserve to play in such a big game given his antics in his time at the club. With a bit of luck Saha will break a nail between now and then a declare himself unfit to play. Nani is the future Saha is on his way out. Granted I'm bitter about Sahas lack of commitment to the club which could be clouding my judgement on the issue.

13th May 2008, 17:46	#88 (permalink)
afrocentricity First Team Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: Thinking up a new location... Posts: 6,439	This thread was going so well...

13th May 2008, 17:50	#89 (permalink)
buildabonfire Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 927	Yes, you are right, this is not a player-slagging thread - but, if 'deservingness' is part of the criteria, being injury-prone isn't necessarily the only consideration.

13th May 2008, 17:54	#90 (permalink)
Raven_Blade Attention Whoring Common Crow Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Manchester United vs The World Posts: 14,192	starting 11 ----------Van Der Sar-------- -Brown--Ferdinand--Vidic--Evra- -Hargreaves--Scholes--Carrick- -Ronaldo----Tevez----Rooney- subs Kuszczak Silvestre Fletcher Anderson Nani Giggs Saha Its so difficult to leave out Foster, Neville, Pique, O'Shea and Park but it must be done. I put Scholes in the middle where he can dictate play and avoid being caught on the wing where he could make a rash tackle, Carrick can do that role better. Rooney can do the running down the left for us with his pace and power. Tevez will need to work hard up front like he did against Barcelona. Now if something happens to Brown/Ferdinand/Vidic; Hargreaves can fill in at RB. Silvestre can cover for Evra. Fletcher and Anderson are big game players and they will give more strength and mobility against the Chelsea midfield when required. Nani and Giggs will be impact subs who can change the game for us with some magic. Saha is our only out and out striker and this could be the game of his life if needed. He is fresh enough and this can be his big chance for redemption.

13th May 2008, 17:56	#91 (permalink)
buildabonfire Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 927	Interesting thoughts; personally, don't see SAF leaving Park out of the entire squad in a million years, especially as he has made the starting XI in pretty much every major European tie that he has been fit for.

13th May 2008, 19:10	#97 (permalink)
buildabonfire Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 927	I'm genuinely worried that temperamenet can't be instilled into Nani in one week! He lost the plot during the medium pressure of the home West hame game which we were already winning. The niggly bastard likes of Cashley and Terry and fecking Jon Obi kunting Mikel will have noticed this and will be setting out to provoke him in the much, much, much more intense atmosphere of the Champions League final. Recipe for disaster.

13th May 2008, 19:11	#98 (permalink)
buildabonfire Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 927	or even temperament

13th May 2008, 20:33	#102 (permalink)
dev1l Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,031	Imo Fergie will base his decision on 2 factors in this order: a) the needs of the team b) prefer the players that ll be at OT next year. I remember that the year Robson retired, Fergie had left him out of a cup final - cannot remember which was but if my memory serves me well, Sharpe was preferred to Robson on the bench.

13th May 2008, 20:35	#103 (permalink)
afrocentricity First Team Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: Thinking up a new location... Posts: 6,439	Who do you think won't be here next year?