Abu Dhabi or Glazer

afrocentricity · 5th September 2008, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredthered

Go on, which do you think is the better option..

If people base their decision on debt versus no debt then the answer is'nt rocket science... fact is that there is more to it than that though (as I mentioned in my first post). I'd like to see a few people weigh up those variables in their posts... rather than 'debt, no debt... no brainer'.

Bit of a simple answer to be fair... anywhoo, good to see you're ok mate

dumbo · 5th September 2008, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FresnoBob

This thread reminds me a bit of that old story about George Bernard Shaw and the young lady that ended with the lady asking "What do you think I am, a whore?" To which Shaw replied, "We've established that, now we're just haggling over the price."

spot on.

Simon Adebesi · 5th September 2008, 16:29

Our owner is most likely to win a leprachaun lookalike competition. Which might - unlikely, but might - come in handy at some point.

Bilbo · 5th September 2008, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredthered

Absolutely 100% spot on.

Fergie is holding all the aces because lets face it, if Fergie walks then the anti Glazer sentiment will take the roof off Old Trafford. There would be murder..

Glazer knows that if he wants to make any inroads into keeping the fans on side he has to first keep Fergie happy, and Fergie is doing a grand job of using that to his advantage.

The Glazers would love to take control of things, but they know damn well they cant. If they try Fergie walks and they are doomed with a capital FUCKED...

Its a subtle twist of irony that actually by keeping Fergie happy to save their business plan they actually could be doing it more damage in the long run because the more Fergie spends the worse their situation gets.

They are definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place. In short they cannot win

Lot of assumption and bollocks there Fred.

Pogue Mahone · 5th September 2008, 16:38

Jeebus, all this talk about IBORs and amortisation suddenly makes my personal choice of career - which involves the occasional insertion of my index finger up another man's backside - seem like a doddle.

Without getting too deep into the nitty gritty (which is way over my head) it certainly seems as though the Glazer's face an uphill struggle in keeping the club as profitable as it is, based on the current level of debt and the current economic climate (with soaring overheads and potentially increasing interest rates)

Having said that, even though FTR loves to get all apocalyptic about the future of the club, the Glazer ownership is more of an inconvenience than any sort of death sentence. The current value of the club is considerably more than what they paid for it and if/when they start to struggle to make ends meet, they can sell the whole kit and caboodle to another private investor and still make a healthy profit. Absolutely no chnace of asset-stripping or similar dooms-day scenarios that Fred likes to scare us with.

Obviously, the next private investor might not run the club as well as the Glazers have, these past few years - in terms of backing the manager in the transfer market whilst otherwise remaining fairly hands off. They haven't tampered with the identity of the club (no Emirates-style stadium re-naming etc.) and they haven't tried to inflict any of this Director of Football shite, which is causing so much grief at other clubs.

All of which is a very real risk under new ownership.

Which is kind of ironic, considering that this is exactly the type of things the "Glazer out" crew were warning us might happen under the Glazers. Anyone who is desperate to see a new investor come in should probably be careful what they wish for.

Dr. Dwayne · 5th September 2008, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Jeebus, all this talk about IBORs and amortisation suddenly makes my personal choice of career - which involves the occasional insertion of my index finger up another man's backside - seem like a doddle.

Without getting too deep into the nitty gritty (which is way over my head) it certainly seems as though the Glazer's face an uphill struggle in keeping the club as profitable as it is, based on the current level of debt and the current economic climate (with soaring overheads and potentially increasing interest rates)

Having said that, even though FTR loves to get all apocalyptic about the future of the club, the Glazer ownership is more of an inconvenience than any sort of death sentence. The current value of the club is considerably more than what they paid for it and if/when they start to struggle to make ends meet, they can sell the whole kit and caboodle to another private investor and still make a healthy profit. Absolutely no chnace of asset-stripping or similar dooms-day scenarios that Fred likes to scare us with.

Obviously, the next private investor might not run the club as well as the Glazers have, these past few years - in terms of backing the manager in the transfer market whilst otherwise remaining fairly hands off. They haven't tampered with the identity of the club (no Emirates-style stadium re-naming etc.) and they haven't tried to inflict any of this Director of Football shite, which is causing so much grief at other clubs.

All of which is a very real risk under new ownership.

Which is kind of ironic, considering that this is exactly the type of things the "Glazer out" crew were warning us might happen under the Glazers. Anyone who is desperate to see a new investor come in should probably be careful what they wish for.

pervert. but a good post.

Pogue Mahone · 5th September 2008, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

pervert. but a good post.

I said career. Not hobby.

You're confusing me with rimaldo.

A1Dan · 5th September 2008, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

I said career. Not hobby.

Professional pervert.

Pogue Mahone · 5th September 2008, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

Professional pervert.

You got me bang to rights, guv.

afrocentricity · 5th September 2008, 16:48

Quote:

...which involves the occasional insertion of my index finger up another man's backside...

Shocking... *trembles*

Pogue Mahone · 5th September 2008, 16:51

All in the past, mind you. I gave up the whole "I see sick people" thing a few years back.

Still scarred by the memories, needless to say.

afrocentricity · 5th September 2008, 16:56

Erm.... *trembles again*, shall we get back on subject?

711 · 5th September 2008, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Jeebus, all this talk about IBORs and amortisation suddenly makes my personal choice of career - which involves the occasional insertion of my index finger up another man's backside - seem like a doddle.

Wouldn't the middle finger be better?

Simon Adebesi · 5th September 2008, 17:10

If I was ill, Id personally rather a doctor used two fingers.

Just for the sake of thoroughness, like.

fjred · 5th September 2008, 17:13

Any decent person in business would look at us as expensive but an existing profit, ergo they would buy an existing and expandable profit. And existing profitability has an actual and potential resale value. For this reason, existing profits cost. If they don't wish to buy this existing profit, their only alternative is to 'grab' cheap and try to build, normally at great expense a la Abramovitch. This is, generally, the province of the arrogant amateur i.e. the Abu Dhabi mob and Chelsea. In business terms, that's why I prefer the Glazers to anything that City or Chelsea have got. I'd sooner go into hoc on an existing security than 'hope' that large bucks can create one. So would finance.

So who's in the better business position? By a long way, us.

711 · 5th September 2008, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Adebesi

If I was ill, Id personally rather a doctor used two fingers.

Just for the sake of thoroughness, like.

After my doc did this he admitted he wasn't the best man for the job - held his hand up and every finger was bent to fuck from playing cricket.

A1Dan · 5th September 2008, 17:25

Oh Christ, this thread has just made me realise... when you get to a certain age you have to start letting doctors do that to check for cancer or something don't you?
Er... what age is that? Please tell me it's like 50 or something?

Dr. Dwayne · 5th September 2008, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

Oh Christ, this thread has just made me realise... when you get to a certain age you have to start letting doctors do that to check for cancer or something don't you?
Er... what age is that? Please tell me it's like 50 or something?

you should have a yearly physical examination, which includes a colorectal examination.

A1Dan · 5th September 2008, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dwayne

you should have a yearly physical examination, which includes a colorectal examination.

From what age?

Dr. Dwayne · 5th September 2008, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

From what age?

the bum check up should be done regularly starting in your 30s, but the actual screening doesn't have to start until you are about 50.

711 · 5th September 2008, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

From what age?

could be any age, first time was under 40 for me.

the worrying thing is, after a bit you get to like it.

theimperialinn · 5th September 2008, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Having said that, even though FTR loves to get all apocalyptic about the future of the club, the Glazer ownership is more of an inconvenience than any sort of death sentence. The current value of the club is considerably more than what they paid for it and if/when they start to struggle to make ends meet, they can sell the whole kit and caboodle to another private investor and still make a healthy profit. Absolutely no chnace of asset-stripping or similar dooms-day scenarios that Fred likes to scare us with.

As an investment opportunity united are not a good investment. There is not much room for growth and they will not make there money back quickly given our level of profit. Imagine the fans reaction if our profits start being paid out as dividends and the investment for new playes/youth development is reduced. This is exactly why the Glazers have financed the purchase through debt rather than use their own cash.

The fact that we are valued at 1 billion + works against us rather than in our favour.

A club which has the opportunity for growth, like city, is a much better investment as the initial price will not be as high and the potential for returns are much greater.

The arabs didn't buy city overnight they looked at many clubs and picked one which they thought could be bought at a reasonable price and has the potential for growth.

I cant see a shrewd businessman coming in with a billion pound offer for united and sit on the investment for years waiting to get their money back.

RA probably could have bought united or maybe arsenal but chose chelsea, which I believe cost him a quid, because of the potential if he grew the business. All the money he gives them is sat on their balance sheet as loans so if chelsea do ever make it to united's level of profit he can sit there recouping his investment as chelsea break even and start turning a profit.

ralphie88 · 5th September 2008, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrocentricity

Debt aside the Glazers have been ok, I know the top reds are going to rip into this post but what have the glazers done wrong? Put the club in (apparently managable) debt, raised ticket prices and introduced the ACL.

I presume you mean the ACS. The fact you don't even know what it's called suggests it doesn't affect you. Which might explain why you don't have a problem with the Glazers.

Anyhoo, even ignoring the matchgoing fans being shafted up the arse since 2005, would we prefer:

(a) Someone who puts money into the club

or

(b) Someone who takes money (around £60m per year) out of the club

No brainer.

Of course, I'd prefer the fans to own the club, instead of just paying for it. Which should also be a no-brainer.

711 · 5th September 2008, 21:39

A decimal place out in the parentheses, methinks, otherwise spot on, as usual.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 5th September 2008, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrocentricity

Surprised at you lot, after all the shit we give Chelsea and will be giving City, you wish we had the sheikh? the guys embarrassing... throwing money around like an attention seeking celebrity. (Note when I say celebrity I'm thinking more Britney/Paris).

Question: Abu Dhabi, Glazer or a return to the PLC?

Abu Dhabi/Glazer all the way. Fuck the PLC! That's what got us Glazer in the first place.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 5th September 2008, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

I presume you mean the ACS. The fact you don't even know what it's called suggests it doesn't affect you. Which might explain why you don't have a problem with the Glazers.

Anyhoo, even ignoring the matchgoing fans being shafted up the arse since 2005, would we prefer:

(a) Someone who puts money into the club

or

(b) Someone who takes money (around £60m per year) out of the club

No brainer.

Of course, I'd prefer the fans to own the club, instead of just paying for it. Which should also be a no-brainer.

It depends on the type of fan ownership. With the last type we ended up as a PLC. Which brought us Glazer... ...

Anderson15 · 5th September 2008, 23:07

Glaizers

Having all that money would be boring if you ask me

We'd have no more Berbatov or Tevez threads to ponder over because we'd just bid as much as much as we want.

peterstorey · 5th September 2008, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

...my personal choice of career - which involves the occasional insertion of my index finger up another man's backside - seem like a doddle.

Without getting too deep into the nitty gritty.

Eh, I thought you were a nut doc not an arse doc? And that's a very unfortunate juxtaposition.

5th September 2008, 16:29	#163 (permalink)
Simon Adebesi Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth. Posts: 2,555	Our owner is most likely to win a leprachaun lookalike competition. Which might - unlikely, but might - come in handy at some point.

5th September 2008, 16:38	#165 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind" Posts: 16,086	Jeebus, all this talk about IBORs and amortisation suddenly makes my personal choice of career - which involves the occasional insertion of my index finger up another man's backside - seem like a doddle. Without getting too deep into the nitty gritty (which is way over my head) it certainly seems as though the Glazer's face an uphill struggle in keeping the club as profitable as it is, based on the current level of debt and the current economic climate (with soaring overheads and potentially increasing interest rates) Having said that, even though FTR loves to get all apocalyptic about the future of the club, the Glazer ownership is more of an inconvenience than any sort of death sentence. The current value of the club is considerably more than what they paid for it and if/when they start to struggle to make ends meet, they can sell the whole kit and caboodle to another private investor and still make a healthy profit. Absolutely no chnace of asset-stripping or similar dooms-day scenarios that Fred likes to scare us with. Obviously, the next private investor might not run the club as well as the Glazers have, these past few years - in terms of backing the manager in the transfer market whilst otherwise remaining fairly hands off. They haven't tampered with the identity of the club (no Emirates-style stadium re-naming etc.) and they haven't tried to inflict any of this Director of Football shite, which is causing so much grief at other clubs. All of which is a very real risk under new ownership. Which is kind of ironic, considering that this is exactly the type of things the "Glazer out" crew were warning us might happen under the Glazers. Anyone who is desperate to see a new investor come in should probably be careful what they wish for.

5th September 2008, 16:51	#171 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind" Posts: 16,086	All in the past, mind you. I gave up the whole "I see sick people" thing a few years back. Still scarred by the memories, needless to say.

5th September 2008, 16:56	#172 (permalink)
afrocentricity First Team Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: Thinking up a new location... Posts: 7,245	Erm.... trembles again, shall we get back on subject?

5th September 2008, 17:10	#174 (permalink)
Simon Adebesi Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth. Posts: 2,555	If I was ill, Id personally rather a doctor used two fingers. Just for the sake of thoroughness, like.

5th September 2008, 17:13	#175 (permalink)
fjred Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: UK Posts: 1,600	Any decent person in business would look at us as expensive but an existing profit, ergo they would buy an existing and expandable profit. And existing profitability has an actual and potential resale value. For this reason, existing profits cost. If they don't wish to buy this existing profit, their only alternative is to 'grab' cheap and try to build, normally at great expense a la Abramovitch. This is, generally, the province of the arrogant amateur i.e. the Abu Dhabi mob and Chelsea. In business terms, that's why I prefer the Glazers to anything that City or Chelsea have got. I'd sooner go into hoc on an existing security than 'hope' that large bucks can create one. So would finance. So who's in the better business position? By a long way, us.

5th September 2008, 17:25	#177 (permalink)
A1Dan First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Where the goals come from. Posts: 10,918	Oh Christ, this thread has just made me realise... when you get to a certain age you have to start letting doctors do that to check for cancer or something don't you? Er... what age is that? Please tell me it's like 50 or something?

5th September 2008, 21:39	#184 (permalink)
711 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: May I suggest a regimental crest of two crossed dead Frenchmen, emblazoned on a mound of dead Frenchmen motif? Posts: 1,755	A decimal place out in the parentheses, methinks, otherwise spot on, as usual.

5th September 2008, 23:07	#187 (permalink)
Anderson15 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Nottingham Posts: 2,232	Glaizers Having all that money would be boring if you ask me We'd have no more Berbatov or Tevez threads to ponder over because we'd just bid as much as much as we want.