Alas poor Carrick...forsooth, he's quite good now!

acnumber9

It was you who said the reason players like Gerrard and Lampard got countless chances regardless of performance due to how highly they were rated. You must have the memory of a goldfish.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

What reputation? Barry earned the right to be picked by Capello the hard way.
Why hasn't Carrick done the same? all I keep hearing is how he should be 'given a run''. Like he is some super star England can't live with out.

That is because you are a typical Carrick sycophant. A fully fledged member of the Capello is a fool, Carrick is underrated, you don't get football if you can't see what a star Carrick is brigade. The Carrick is never to blame for anything gang. the one who believe It's only clueless fans and coaches who just can't see how special he is and his fellow team are always at fault when he has a bad game because they don't suit or can adopt to him.....

I know your type very well. .....

Seriously. Did you actually even read what I posted and understand it?

I wont even bother repeating anything I said earlier for you certainly wont pay attention nor understand it. You'll just turn it it what its not. I'm not prepared to deal with that again in this thread. I'm done.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Rather you are just an idiot. Players like Gerard and Lampard are not stars out of pre conceived notion like you want folks to believe. They are actually football stars and are thus treated accordingly. If players where seen as stars just because of a run of games like you are idiotic enough to believe then Carrick would be a fucking super star given the run he has had in the United side since he arrived.

I am yet to change from my point of view but as expected its lost on you. In your dumb head you've some how translated it as me agreeing with your bullshit ''pre-conceived'' notion and what ever other stupid idea you've created regarding form and club football and going back on my view point.

I don't have any interest in catering for the slackness in your head. You can deal with that sewer alone. I wont by relying to your shit again in this thread. Bye.

acnumber9

You talk so much shit you invariably get lost in your own argument. If form at club level doesn't matter and it's how you perform on the international stage then why have Gerrard and Lampard got so many caps? Has every player in the current England player hit the ground running right away or have many needed a run of games to find their way? You think a player does not deserve more than a handful of scattered chances? You're a fool.

adexkola

As limited as Barry is, he grabbed his chance with both hands, Carrick did not. His form has also been unstable for the past 2 years, and until recent, when did he perform against top quality opposition?

EdWeatherall

Thought he was outstanding yesterday, along with Giggs and Park, a real shame that he just had that one moment against City, as he's been really good for a while now

It appears as well that some people are beginning to notice the things that he does that were never usually noticed if you see what I mean

acnumber9

While Barry's been excellent the past two years?

Feed Me

Barry has been dire over the past two years. Where Carrick has been roundly slated for some of his form in the same period, Barry's continued mediocrity has slipped under the radar.

The form Carrick has produced since March is superior to anything Barry has produced in his entire career.

A comparison of the two players is, frankly, laughable.

adexkola

Haven't watched much of City in recent years tbf, but I don't recall any major mistakes Barry made on the way to the finals, in fact if I remember well, England had an impressive run in the quarters, with Barry playing most of the matches

If a major overhaul of the English team is done, it will be built around upcoming players like Wilshere, not Michael Carrick, unfortunately.

Shimo

I am sorry

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Ok

elmo

Carrick's the type of player that won't look out of place in a team of stars, but ask him to shine in an average team and he'll struggle to show his class.

Name Changed

I think the comparison is pretty good.

Both have great spells mixed up with absolutely dire spells. Carrick has been very good for the last couple of months. Barry has had spells when he has been good.

Recently though, or for most of the season, Barry has been terrible. Carrick wasn't exactly playing too well himself though before the last few months.

Brwned

He didn't show his class at West Ham or Spurs?

adexkola

Weren't West Ham relegated while he was there? I mean, if people use that to put Parker down, then...

And Tottenham weren't mugs either, with Keane and Berbatov, Woodgate, King, and the like, failing to clinch a Champions League spot because of food poisoning.

acnumber9

Carrick was what age when West Ham were relegated?

Jonno

Carrick is more the sort of player that will play consistently well for 10-15 games without many people noticing that he is there, starting many of United's attacking moves from the back.

KM

Both of the situation aren't even remotely comparable.

Jonno

Weren't Defoe, David James and Glen Johnson there too? Hardly bad players are they?

adexkola

I hate this assumption that United fans don't appreciate when Carrick is playing well.

He was very good in 06-07. He was excellent in 07-08 afterr he recovered from an injury (elbow?). He was very good in 08-09 until midway in the season, and that kicked off a long period where he produced underwhelming, impotent performances, including the loss in Rome. Even his better performances only consisted of him playing a Makelele role, as if he would be shot if he attempted a forward pass, or grabbed some cojones. Till recent, he's been bested in every match against the top teams.

He's a good technical player when he plays conservatively (is that a word?), with priceless attributes such as his interceptions and keeping things ticking over. But as he has shown recently, he can do much more, with more zeal and vest.

Shimo

Ahh thanks - now your comment makes sense.

I don't overrate England players - there are some genuinely very good players in the England setup but, the way the way they play and a lot of times due to the players they choose that don't really fit the system, they are shyte as a team

I don't think Carrick would look out of place in an England setup were they to play differently. With the current players, I think if they play 1 striker (Rooney) with Gerrard behind him and Wilshere / Carrick behind them and having A. Young and A. Johnson on the wings, they'd be a force. Would have to get A. Johnson to buy into tracking back more, Young I think puts in a good shift as it is.

Defensively with Terry, Rio, A. Cole and Hart - they are fairly solid. G. Johnson is the weak link defensively and if can work harder on the defensive end - they've got a very solid backline.

With Wilshere / Gerrard you've got two players that can make passes and play in the final 3rd and in the back you have Carrick mopping up and linking up play out the back.

In a 4-4-2 - there isn't really a player except for maybe Wilshere that works hard enough to partner with Carrick but, then even if you put Wilshere as the DM, then who do you partner with him?

Am not a Carrick sycophanth as Chief said, I just think in the International game and the European games, a player like Carrick is what England misses, someone that can stay home defensively, make incisive passes and protect the back 4. Barry exposed England several times in the WC - one particular play was against Angola at the death, he loses the ball at their 18 yard line and then can't catch up to play as they break. He's poor on the ball and defensive liability for a DM.

finneh

I think using the word consistancy when talking about Carrick is a little strange.

adexkola

Did some wiki research, turns out he was injured for mos of the season they were relegated. Renders my first point moot.

KM

I didn't knew about that Injury problems, I said the situations weren't comparable because Carrick was just a young player whereas Parker is at the peak of his career.

Levi_Jm

I heart Carrick. Glad he's gotten some confidence back. Rome obviously affected him and then the miss at Burnley. Well that's in the past. Glad he's back now. Would like him to score a goal or two. Would be fitting if he gets an assist or a goal at Wembley. Would vindicate him somewhat.



Sidenote, everytime he does something crap...like a bad pass or shot...he rubs his nose. LOL

Feed Me

Carrick was outstanding in 08-09 after a slow start. He was superb and getting all sorts of plaudits in the run in. He was, along with the rest of the side, schooled in the Rome final and since then people have altered history and made out as though he was poor that season - that couldn't be further from the truth. Carrick's true malaise came in the 09/10 season and about half of this season.

Brwned

He had 2 goals and 8 assists in the second half of the season, some Makelele role that.

mufcwarm92

This. His first two seasons, 06-07 and 07-08, were impressive, he seemed to slot right in, but he didn't hit the heights he did the season after. He was our best midfielder throughout 08-09. He had a shocking game in the final but it's hard to pick out a player who didn't. 09-10 was a poor season for him - he was very inconsistent and was in and out of the team. This season he has again been inconsistent, but has had sustained periods of good form, interrupted by some crucial errors that make it look like he played poorly. In the last few games, he has cemented his place as a regular starter again and seems to be reproducing what we all know he can do.

Pogue Mahone

That summary is spot on.

Having witnessed the indecent haste with which people managed to forget Rooney's previous seasons contributions last autumn, nothing surprises me when it comes to the short memories of football fans. Good to see some of ye can still remember back a wee bit further than the season just gone.

KM

It seems the stylish ex spurs players brings the worst out of Caf. God knows what will happen when modric is signed

Feed Me

The problem for Carrick has been that his really bad moments - and the ones that come to mind are the Barca final, the Bayern error and the City error - have all been really high profile. I think they have created a false perception that his form during the last 18-24 months has been really dire, when in fact he's managed good runs of form even during his so called fallow period.

Any muppet can see what he brings to the side when he's on his game though; see his performances since March.

Feed Me

Someone posted a good article earlier on this thread of a match report in the 2009 run in; it was praising Carrick to the hilt despite the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez being in the side.

MadDogg

He certainly wasn't poor in 08/09. He was however, inconsistent. Started off quite poorly, got better until he hit arguably career best form around January-March, then started slipping away again for the final month or so. I distinctly remember having to defend him early in the season during his poor form, then trying to put the brakes on the 'his best ever season' talk that happened in his good period.

07/08 was his best. Didn't quite hit the heights he did the following season, but he was far more consistent.

elmo

People only notice when he's having a poor game, because it usually means the team is not performing well.

elmo

The West Ham and Spurs side were pretty good imo.

elmo

The England team tactics is limiting the potential of their best players. With the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, and Lampard in the team, it's a joke to watch them lump long balls to Heskey and hope he gets it.

beardsleybob

Shimo basically described how I'd have England set up to play. Maybe not the same players but the system used would be spot on for midfield. Carrick needs to play for England to be successful.

But I couldn't give a shit whether or not he does. Ignore him for all I care, leaves him with more time to dedicate to us

Brwned

They were but pretty good and a team of stars aren't really the same thing.

wr8_utd

From the Mirror Football:

The only trophies paraded at Old Trafford in the three seasons before Michael Carrick arrived were the FA and Carling Cups.

In the five years since, Manchester United have won the Premier League four times and reached the final of the Champions League on three occasions.

It may seem perverse then to begin with questions about whether he has the credentials to even be at United.

Carrick exudes a practiced indifference as he quietly wonders what he must do to win over his many detractors.

“When people have said I’ve not been good enough for United’s midfield, then yeah, sometimes I do wonder what is good enough for them,” he confesses with a shy smile.

“I’ve had a fantastic time here after winning four titles in five years and three Champions League finals, and of course I’m maybe frustrated at times, because it’s winning trophies that sets teams and players apart, and we’ve done that.

“But then I can catch myself and say, ‘Why the hell are you worrying about it?’ It’s there for people to see, and if they can’t, so what?

“You hope that people realise you must be doing something right to achieve what we have competing against the best teams in the world, but if not, then does that matter? The only thing that matters in the next trophy.”

It does matter though, doesn’t it?

Carrick has been so long overlooked, by his own fans and his own country, it is beginning to seem a bit personal.

Here is a midfielder of quality who is revered on the continent by the likes of Spanish World Cup winners Xabi Alonso and Xavi, but often dismissed within his own country as lightweight and peripheral.

That can’t be true, of course, not if Alex Ferguson continues to pick you for every big game after five years and offers you a new long term contract at the age of 29.

Surely, his record elevates him towards the ranks of Keane and Robson at Old Trafford?

Alonso says he was bemused, when he played in the Premier League, by England’s eternal search for a skilful, ball-playing, possession-keeping midfielder when they always had one under their noses in Carrick.

And the stats back him up.

He is the best English midfielder in terms of possession and pass completion, and his performances in guiding United to Saturday’s final show just how influential he can be. Also, has anyone seen a better performance than his master-class in orchestration in the title-clinching victory over Chelsea?

So why the brick-bats?

Carrick himself has an idea, because his reputation took a dive after the Champions’ League final defeat to Barcelona two years ago, as Xavi and Andres Iniesta ruled the midfield.

With the Spanish giants in London for the rematch, where better to restore that reputation?

He shrugs and smiles again, because selfish personal motivations are not exactly encouraged within Old Trafford’s powerful team ethic.

“Yeah, maybe some of the criticism aimed at me stems from that night against Barca when the things we tried didn’t come off, and it’s good to get the chance against them again,” he says mildly.

“But to be honest, I’m not bothered about the chance of revenge or proving anything, it’s a more simple motivation than that. It’s about the chance to play on the stage again, against the biggest sides and the chance to get your hands on the trophy.

“What happened in the past has happened, you can’t change it. But one thing - you don’t want to go through that feeling again. Ever. What is inside all of us in this squad, is we want to get our hands the trophy taste that moment at the end.”

It is an honourable ambition, and one consistent with a player who is prepared to sacrifice personal acclaim in the wider cause of his team. But can they really beat Barcelona?

“We are not the first team Barcelona have beaten. But to lose like that on a stage like that, it was devastating, so I can understand why people think we can’t,” Carrick admits.

“We didn’t play well, things didn’t work that night, and you know you can’t do that against Barcelona, it’s that simple.

“But there’s no issue, no fear. We have beaten them before, we’ve proved we can beat them. On the biggest stage that night, it didn’t work, but we know where it didn’t work, and there is no block.”

If United do win, then perhaps it will not only be Carrick who once and for silences the debate surrounding his qualities. As a team United too have the chance to prove they are better than people suggest.

Despite winning the title by nine points and reaching the European final once more - and even winning the semi with their reserves - the general consensus is this is not a vintage Old Trafford side.

Beating the apparently invincible Barca would forever alter that perception, but again, Carrick insists he or his team-mates can’t be influenced by the need to prove themselves.

“People say so many different things if you listened to it all then it would drive you mad, and be too distracting,” he explains.

“We know ourselves where we are. We know at times we haven’t played well and our away form hasn’t been great, but then we have always been confident come the end of the season we’d be there challenging, because we knew where we were at.

“That’s proved to be the case, so we were right to trust our own judgement. That comes from within. Of course you hear some of the criticism, but we have experience and guidance within the club to tell us when we’re doing something wrong, so we can rely on that and have no need to worry about outside influences.

“I know myself, I’m happy with the job I’m doing, and if people are not singing my praises then I don’t worry about it, because we are reaching our goals, and that is the only important thing.

“Our success will set us apart in the end, so let’s hope it continues!” It is a sentiment that will be shared by millions of United fans worldwide this weekend.

Diabo_Sam

Wow