All change of ownership and Red Knights related posts here please

EdWeatherall · 3rd March 2010, 16:35

David Gill speaking at the Soccerex convention

Quote:

Gill: Glazers don't want to sell

David Gill insists the Glazers do not want to sell Manchester United - and has questioned the practicality of the Red Knights' takeover bid.

The Red Knights, a group of wealthy fans, are targeting the Glazer family's debts as part of a potential takeover.

Gill said the Glazers were not interested in selling up and are running the club in the right way.

He said at the Soccerex conference in Manchester: "The owners are very long-term owners and have shown that with Tampa Bay which they took over in 1994-5.

"They are not sellers, that's not saying people like these Red Knights can't come forward with some ideas.

"But there is no indication to mean that they want to sell and in that case they cannot buy the asset, it's not for sale.

"The Glazers have no wish to sell and from our perspective they are running the club in the right way."

Gill questioned how a Red Knights' takeover would work at United.

He added: "The Red Knights proposal, the idea of having 20, 30 or 40 very wealthy people running Manchester United, I don't know how it would work in practice.

"The better-run clubs are where there is clear single decision-making and it's quick and efficient - Roman Abramovich at Chelsea, Sheikh Mansour at Manchester City, Silvio Berlusconi at AC Milan.

"Having a number of wealthy people involved - they will all want to be involved in decision-making.

"I'm not sure what their endgame is but the endgame is irrelevant.

"The vast majority of fans of Manchester United should be happy with what we are doing and staying at the top of domestic and world football.

Looks like the first bits from Gill's Q&A are starting to appear

Xander45 · 3rd March 2010, 16:38

David Gill: Red Knights should forget about Man Utd bid | The Sun |Sport|Football.

TomClare · 3rd March 2010, 16:39

How the Red Knights intend to wrench United out of Glazers' control

Already as many as 50 Manchester United fans have pledged to come up with £10m-£15m and more are coming forward

David Conn
Wednesday 3 March 2010
The Guardian

The substance of the men who attended Monday's meeting of the Red Knights should reassure Manchester United supporters that the mountainous task of replacing the Glazers can possibly be scaled, although these are the early days of planning the ascent.

Jim O'Neill, the chief economist at Goldman Sachs, and Mark Rawlinson, head of corporate law at Freshfields, possess expertise and personal history, having respectively been on and advised the United board in 2005, when the directors tried and ultimately failed to fend off the Glazers' debt-laden takeover.

While in January Paul Marshall, co-founder of the hedge fund Marshall Wace, wrote, when the Glazers launched their prospectus to borrow £500m in bonds, that United's finances are "worse than disastrous" and that the club should, like FC Barcelona, become owned by supporters.

If the trio's involvement, and that collective viewpoint, seem remarkable, they encapsulate how far football supporters have come from the subspecies of popular stereotype in the grim 80s. It illustrates, too, that even financiers recognise that not everything in society is up for grabs and that some things, like football clubs, are treasures worth protecting, not there for the looting.

How they try to pull off the most expensive and far-reaching takeover in football history remains to be worked out. It was significant that in their statement yesterday the Red Knights said they are "supportive of current management".

Indeed O'Neill is a friend of Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill, the chief executive, so you would imagine he has at least spoken to them in advance of effectively confirming that he is involved. Whatever Ferguson and Gill insist about their freedoms under the Glazers, both men would surely be happier working under an ownership structure not laden with debt, rooted in the fans of the club.

The Red Knights' statement was explicit enough to say they are "looking into the feasibility of … a proposal to be put to the Glazer family regarding the ownership of Manchester United".

However, it was notable that no solid detail was released about how this might be achieved. The onus was put on fans to support the idea and bring the Manchester United Supporters' Trust (Must) up to 100,000 online members.

There are several reasons for this: the Red Knights feel that the vocal campaign against the Glazers, heralded by fans wearing the green and gold colours of the club's Newton Heath predecessor, should now become more focused around an alternative future.

Fans will eventually be asked to contribute financially towards buying a stake and, probably at some strategic point, to withhold their custom. Hence Duncan Drasdo, Must's chief executive, saying it is "essential for a majority of two key groups, the Old Trafford season ticket holders and those with executive facilities, to show their appetite for participation".

While Must pushes on with that membership drive, the Red Knights will consider how they might buy out a family which maintains it will not sell football's most bounteous cash cow.

The Red Knights are understood to have an affiliation of around 50 United supporters rich enough to contribute £10m-£15m each. The publicity yesterday prompted many more, apparently from all over the world, to get in touch.

There will be further, lower levels at which people will be invited to contribute, including a scheme to enable ordinary fans without vast wealth to build up a collective stake.

Their ideal solution is to make the Glazers an offer large enough to give them a profit palatable to both sides on the £272m the family paid to buy the club in 2005. The other £559m out of the total £831m price, including professionals' fees, was all borrowed then loaded on to the club to pay off. The Glazers may want £500m profit; the Red Knights might consider £100m more than adequate.

The bid would also need to buy out the payment in kind loans (piks) owed to hedge funds, which accrue that credit-card 14.25% interest rate. With rolled-up interest, the total owed is now £200m.

The bidders may not feel as compelled to pay off the £500m bond. Although it is still debt imposed by the Glazers to fund their own takeover, that hideous practice which has United supporters in outrage, O'Neill and his men may feel they can live with some debt left in the club.

If the Glazers will not sell, other options will be considered. One is to buy the piks on the open market, which could put the Red Knights in a position of strength, particularly if United were to default on any payments.

Crucial to the credibility of any bid is that the Red Knights put their own money forward, are not looking for a fat return, and mean what they say: that they are fans who merely want to see their club liberated from a dismal financial draining.

If a credible bid can be constructed, and the fans rally round to support it, perhaps enlightenment really can dawn at Old Trafford, where in recent years so many people have paid so much money ultimately to make a profit for six members of just one family in Florida.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/d...akeover-glazer

kietotheworld · 3rd March 2010, 16:41

If they do take over and he keeps his job he'll be sucking them off in the media from day one.

Sonny Feehan · 3rd March 2010, 16:50

Surprised that little mention has been made of the 200M debt reduction. Is this because it is not important or because it doesn't fit in with the anti-Glazer sentiments? Just curious.

Amir · 3rd March 2010, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny Feehan

Surprised that little mention has been made of the 200M debt reduction. Is this because it is not important or because it doesn't fit in with the anti-Glazer sentiments? Just curious.

What 200m debt reduction? I think the 507m figure is just the senior debt, not the PIKs (hopefully I don't sound like an idiot, because I don't really have much knowledge with all that).

Rood · 3rd March 2010, 17:03

Surely this could have been posted in one of the many, many threads we already have on these subjects.

charleysurf · 3rd March 2010, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amir

What 200m debt reduction? I think the 507m figure is just the senior debt, not the PIKs (hopefully I don't sound like an idiot, because I don't really have much knowledge with all that).

I think you're right. What I don't understand is why they did not pay off the PIKS with the money from the bonds issue. Surely they are the worst part of the debt mountain as regards interest?

Jase · 3rd March 2010, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

If they do take over and he keeps his job he'll be sucking them off in the media from day one.

As would anyone else.

Hectic · 3rd March 2010, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

There's some valid points in that article to be honest. It's harsh but it raises genuine questions which a lot of people seem to be completely ignoring

Yeah, it's hard to support something without knowing exactly what we are supporting. At least the Glazers are the devil we know of. I'm not saying I want to keep them here, but I'm a bit skeptical of the redknights, at least more so than others.

Sonny Feehan · 3rd March 2010, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amir

What 200m debt reduction? I think the 507m figure is just the senior debt, not the PIKs (hopefully I don't sound like an idiot, because I don't really have much knowledge with all that).

Not too sure myself now but I thought it said the overall debt was down from 716M to 538M. I know there are enough knowledgable people on here to set it straight.

Rood · 3rd March 2010, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny Feehan

Surprised that little mention has been made of the 200M debt reduction. Is this because it is not important or because it doesn't fit in with the anti-Glazer sentiments? Just curious.

Mainly the latter!

However, it has not been reduced as much as £200m - the senior debt has come down around £30m and then around £70m knocked off the PIKs (although this wont shown until the next set of accounts).

redwhiteblack · 3rd March 2010, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

This is only the first option to be considered seriously though.

Removing the Glazers will take time and probably multiple efforts from several people (investors, fans etc).

At least there is now serious talk about it, which is a good sign anyway you twist and turn it.

This.

comlag · 3rd March 2010, 17:23

Probably the best article I've read so far since this famous monday night meeting.

Amir · 3rd March 2010, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny Feehan

Not too sure myself now but I thought it said the overall debt was down from 716M to 538M. I know there are enough knowledgable people on here to set it straight.

I heard about a reduction from 538m to 507m. Nothing about 716m. So it's surely just the senior debt.

Amir · 3rd March 2010, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleysurf

I think you're right. What I don't understand is why they did not pay off the PIKS with the money from the bonds issue. Surely they are the worst part of the debt mountain as regards interest?

Obviously I haven't a clue, but I think I remember previous posters here who claimed they HAVE to clear the senior debt before they touch the PIKs. Or something...

charleysurf · 3rd March 2010, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amir

Obviously I haven't a clue, but I think I remember previous posters here who claimed they HAVE to clear the senior debt before they touch the PIKs. Or something...

Ah, that makes some sense. Well they better start paying off those PIKs pretty sharpish now if they have rolled all the senior debt into the bonds.

Sir A1ex · 3rd March 2010, 18:05

If you're pro-Glazer then don't read on, this doesn't apply to you. But for the rest of you who want Glazer out, but are now full of mis-givings about the Red Knights, I ask one smiple question (well a couple actually)...

Why are you wearing Green and Gold?

What is it that you want to happen?

What possible scenario can you envisage to get rid of the Glazers which is vaguely possible and is better than the Red Knights?

People on here seem to be developing some kind of Stockholm syndrome that is making them scared of grasping the chance to get what they want. You're like a man kept in solitary capticity for so long that, when the door to freedome is opened, you're so afraid of the outside world that you find excuses not to walk out... "what if I get hit by a bus? No, I'm probably better off staying in this cell".

The Red Kinghts are by far the closest thing to what we all want (ie a Untied tun not purely for profit, with the fans given a voice and the historic principles of the club kept in mind by those who run it) that we can possibly expect to get. And yet the slightest negative article gets picked up and run with by a depressing number of people who seem to find it too good to be true.

It's time to piss or get off the pot folks - if you don't support the Red Knights, I really don't see the point in taking Green and Gold any further... we may as well go and dig out our red scarves again right now.

charleysurf · 3rd March 2010, 18:06

Why is it wrong to sceptical about the "RedKnights" when nobody knows who they are and how much money they have?

It would be better to get new owners without the club being driven to bankruptcy and relegation. But those currently pimping for Keith Harris and his band of unknown heroes seem to disagree. To quote RedRichio: "Trying to prevent financial ruin by actively driving for financial ruin. Genius."

phelans shorts · 3rd March 2010, 18:07

theres no proof the red knights have enough money, meaning more debts meaning we are in as bad if not worse position as we are now.

i'm anti glazer but need more proof of funds from these redknight, hell for now even names will do!

Pogue Mahone · 3rd March 2010, 18:08

In answer to the second question, an uber-rich version of Randy Lerner buying the club would be nice.

JayWalker · 3rd March 2010, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelans shorts

i'm anti glazer but need more proof of funds from these redknight, hell for now even names will do!

Simple as that.

Dr. Dwayne · 3rd March 2010, 18:08

put yer money where yer mouth is, Red Knights.

Rood · 3rd March 2010, 18:12

I think many fans are just waiting for some concrete info about the Red Knights and their plans.
e.g. how will the fans be involved? where is the money coming from? etc

I am encouraged that some wealthy people, who are apparently also United fans, are interested in taking over the club but until I see real details of what they propose then I wont be getting too excited.

gaffs · 3rd March 2010, 18:14

I want Glazer Out. Is doesn’t mean that i want anyone to come in and take over.

The fact that they are reds is defiantly a positive thing. But they most important thing for me is know how they are going to finance the deal, how they are going to deal with the debts and how they plan to take the club forward. Until i know that, im not throwing my support behind them.

Where have they said they will run United as a not for profit organisation?

Like it or not, there are worse owners out there than The Glazers.

prateik · 3rd March 2010, 18:15

whats stopping the redknights from continuing where the glazers left off
the debt will increase and there will be more owners wanting to have things their way

no point being too fixated on getting rid of one evil and making way for something worse

Rooney24 · 3rd March 2010, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by roodboy

I think many fans are just waiting for some concrete info about the Red Knights and their plans.
e.g. how will the fans be involved? where is the money coming from? etc

I am encouraged that some wealthy people, who are apparently also United fans, are interested in taking over the club but until I see real details of what they propose then I wont be getting too excited.

Exactly. Im pretty certain the Newcastle fans spunked their pants when Mike Ashley took over and look what happened there.

Obviously, anything that will make a positive change to the club has to be welcomed, but at the minute there simple isnt enough information in the public domain at the minute to make a firm committment/decision on the RKs.

Nialler · 3rd March 2010, 18:17

you'd be mad to accept the Red Knights on face value alone, people are right to be suspicious of someone telling them to bring the club to its knees in order to rid the club of the Glazers "but don't fret, we'll then step in and make everything allright".

Ole's_toe_poke · 3rd March 2010, 18:17

Why shouldn't questions be asked. What's the point of having "anyone but Glazer". We'd rather have owners that are good for Man Utd. So the Red Knights must be vetted in the same way as any potential owner.

Walrus · 3rd March 2010, 18:18

even if the red knights come with some debt, i would have thought it would be at lower interest rates and a lower capital amount than that with the glazers. that and the fact that it could well mean the abolishment of practices like the ACS means supporting them.

innocent until proven guilty as far as im concerned, if these red knights are real united fans as has been suggested, i doubt they would laden the club with more debt than can be afforded.

suspicion is fair enough, but lets not bite off the hand that could potentially be feeding us.

Rooney24 · 3rd March 2010, 18:18

This is going well isnt it A1Dan???

comlag · 3rd March 2010, 18:23

FFS they only had a preliminary talks meeting on monday night, give them chance. We have had quite a bit of information since then and it's all sounded positive.

United fans, wealthy folk, chance for normal fans to own shares etc etc.

Of course we need more concrete info about the details of any takeover to get 100% behind TRK's but the fans are where this will begin and where this will end.

I almost feel like Zool: "The Traveller has come!"

Just don't think of a giant stay puffed marsh mallow man.

olesmyhero · 3rd March 2010, 18:24

I don't know how many of us are actually 'doubting' the Red Knights. We simply don't know enough to make a decision. What's so bad about that?

Baby Faced Assassin · 3rd March 2010, 18:33

Have a feeling, Red knights = Mike Ashley V.2.0.

Nialler · 3rd March 2010, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by comlag

FFS they only had a preliminary talks meeting on monday night, give them chance. .

and on that basis your telling United fans to give up their MUTV subscriptions ?

Sorry mate but I'm not that easily led.

M13 · 3rd March 2010, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

If you're pro-Glazer then don't read on, this doesn't apply to you. But for the rest of you who want Glazer out, but are now full of mis-givings about the Red Knights, I ask one smiple question (well a couple actually)...

Why are you wearing Green and Gold?

What is it that you want to happen?

What possible scenario can you envisage to get rid of the Glazers which is vaguely possible and is better than the Red Knights?

People on here seem to be developing some kind of Stockholm syndrome that is making them scared of grasping the chance to get what they want. You're like a man kept in solitary capticity for so long that, when the door to freedome is opened, you're so afraid of the outside world that you find excuses not to walk out... "what if I get hit by a bus? No, I'm probably better off staying in this cell".

The Red Kinghts are by far the closest thing to what we all want (ie a Untied tun not purely for profit, with the fans given a voice and the historic principles of the club kept in mind by those who run it) that we can possibly expect to get. And yet the slightest negative article gets picked up and run with by a depressing number of people who seem to find it too good to be true.

It's time to piss or get off the pot folks - if you don't support the Red Knights, I really don't see the point in taking Green and Gold any further... we may as well go and dig out our red scarves again right now.

Absolutely spot on.

The RK's statement says that the fans will be put at the heart of every decision that the club make. This is exactly what I want to hear. I'm excited to hear what they say next, how they're going to fund their bid, and what the next step will be once we reach 100,000 (currently 96,311

). If it's what I believe is in the best interests of the club, I'm behind it, leaving Ciderman crying into his Glazer porridge.

Whereas it seems that a lot of people on here are now scared of the future, scared of change. When people, including me, call for a boycott, it's not an instant thing. A boycott will occur on the back of what the RKs do. Many people, again including me, will not renew because we're completely disillusioned with how the club is run now. Genuine fans mean nothing to Manchester United. But a called boycott will occur on the back of a bid, or once funds are proven and a boycott is the only way to get the Glazers to accept a bid.

For me, the long term survival of this club is paramount. There is no glory in winning 4 leagues on the trot, if the club is inevitably left as an empty shell in 2017.

Think about it: In 10 years, people will not remember Portsmouth FC for their 2008 FA cup win, they'll remember them for being the first PL club to go out of business.

Sir A1ex · 3rd March 2010, 18:35

Wanting to find out more before vomiting is sensible, of course. But there are plenty in here who are actively disparaging the option - which is so self defeating it's untrue. Many are arguing that the whole concept of q consortium of fans is bollocks.
As comlag said, they only went public a couple of days ago - give them a chance!

comlag · 3rd March 2010, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nialler

and on that basis your telling United fans to give up their MUTV subscriptions ?

Sorry mate but I'm not that easily led.

Sparks a good debate though, doesn't it?

And I do genuinely believe that the only way they will go is when the money stops coming in hence not subscribing to MUTV. It's as simple as that for me.

gaffs · 3rd March 2010, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Faced Assassin

Have a feeling, Red knights = Mike Ashley V.2.0.

Babys IQ Assassin.

comlag · 3rd March 2010, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Faced Assassin

Have a feeling, Red knights = Mike Ashley V.2.0.

and again

(and thats a genuine chuckle)

Mike Ashley is a moron.

International hedge fund accountants, financiers and insurance bankers may be yuppy wankers, but they know what to do with money.

3rd March 2010, 16:39	#403 (permalink)
TomClare Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 518	How The Red Knights Intend to Wrest Control of United How the Red Knights intend to wrench United out of Glazers' control Already as many as 50 Manchester United fans have pledged to come up with £10m-£15m and more are coming forward David Conn Wednesday 3 March 2010 The Guardian The substance of the men who attended Monday's meeting of the Red Knights should reassure Manchester United supporters that the mountainous task of replacing the Glazers can possibly be scaled, although these are the early days of planning the ascent. Jim O'Neill, the chief economist at Goldman Sachs, and Mark Rawlinson, head of corporate law at Freshfields, possess expertise and personal history, having respectively been on and advised the United board in 2005, when the directors tried and ultimately failed to fend off the Glazers' debt-laden takeover. While in January Paul Marshall, co-founder of the hedge fund Marshall Wace, wrote, when the Glazers launched their prospectus to borrow £500m in bonds, that United's finances are "worse than disastrous" and that the club should, like FC Barcelona, become owned by supporters. If the trio's involvement, and that collective viewpoint, seem remarkable, they encapsulate how far football supporters have come from the subspecies of popular stereotype in the grim 80s. It illustrates, too, that even financiers recognise that not everything in society is up for grabs and that some things, like football clubs, are treasures worth protecting, not there for the looting. How they try to pull off the most expensive and far-reaching takeover in football history remains to be worked out. It was significant that in their statement yesterday the Red Knights said they are "supportive of current management". Indeed O'Neill is a friend of Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill, the chief executive, so you would imagine he has at least spoken to them in advance of effectively confirming that he is involved. Whatever Ferguson and Gill insist about their freedoms under the Glazers, both men would surely be happier working under an ownership structure not laden with debt, rooted in the fans of the club. The Red Knights' statement was explicit enough to say they are "looking into the feasibility of … a proposal to be put to the Glazer family regarding the ownership of Manchester United". However, it was notable that no solid detail was released about how this might be achieved. The onus was put on fans to support the idea and bring the Manchester United Supporters' Trust (Must) up to 100,000 online members. There are several reasons for this: the Red Knights feel that the vocal campaign against the Glazers, heralded by fans wearing the green and gold colours of the club's Newton Heath predecessor, should now become more focused around an alternative future. Fans will eventually be asked to contribute financially towards buying a stake and, probably at some strategic point, to withhold their custom. Hence Duncan Drasdo, Must's chief executive, saying it is "essential for a majority of two key groups, the Old Trafford season ticket holders and those with executive facilities, to show their appetite for participation". While Must pushes on with that membership drive, the Red Knights will consider how they might buy out a family which maintains it will not sell football's most bounteous cash cow. The Red Knights are understood to have an affiliation of around 50 United supporters rich enough to contribute £10m-£15m each. The publicity yesterday prompted many more, apparently from all over the world, to get in touch. There will be further, lower levels at which people will be invited to contribute, including a scheme to enable ordinary fans without vast wealth to build up a collective stake. Their ideal solution is to make the Glazers an offer large enough to give them a profit palatable to both sides on the £272m the family paid to buy the club in 2005. The other £559m out of the total £831m price, including professionals' fees, was all borrowed then loaded on to the club to pay off. The Glazers may want £500m profit; the Red Knights might consider £100m more than adequate. The bid would also need to buy out the payment in kind loans (piks) owed to hedge funds, which accrue that credit-card 14.25% interest rate. With rolled-up interest, the total owed is now £200m. The bidders may not feel as compelled to pay off the £500m bond. Although it is still debt imposed by the Glazers to fund their own takeover, that hideous practice which has United supporters in outrage, O'Neill and his men may feel they can live with some debt left in the club. If the Glazers will not sell, other options will be considered. One is to buy the piks on the open market, which could put the Red Knights in a position of strength, particularly if United were to default on any payments. Crucial to the credibility of any bid is that the Red Knights put their own money forward, are not looking for a fat return, and mean what they say: that they are fans who merely want to see their club liberated from a dismal financial draining. If a credible bid can be constructed, and the fans rally round to support it, perhaps enlightenment really can dawn at Old Trafford, where in recent years so many people have paid so much money ultimately to make a profit for six members of just one family in Florida. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/d...akeover-glazer

3rd March 2010, 18:05	#418 (permalink)
Sir A1ex First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Where the goals come from. Posts: 19,907	For all those doubting the Red Knights... If you're pro-Glazer then don't read on, this doesn't apply to you. But for the rest of you who want Glazer out, but are now full of mis-givings about the Red Knights, I ask one smiple question (well a couple actually)... Why are you wearing Green and Gold? What is it that you want to happen? What possible scenario can you envisage to get rid of the Glazers which is vaguely possible and is better than the Red Knights? People on here seem to be developing some kind of Stockholm syndrome that is making them scared of grasping the chance to get what they want. You're like a man kept in solitary capticity for so long that, when the door to freedome is opened, you're so afraid of the outside world that you find excuses not to walk out... "what if I get hit by a bus? No, I'm probably better off staying in this cell". The Red Kinghts are by far the closest thing to what we all want (ie a Untied tun not purely for profit, with the fans given a voice and the historic principles of the club kept in mind by those who run it) that we can possibly expect to get. And yet the slightest negative article gets picked up and run with by a depressing number of people who seem to find it too good to be true. It's time to piss or get off the pot folks - if you don't support the Red Knights, I really don't see the point in taking Green and Gold any further... we may as well go and dig out our red scarves again right now.

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3rd March 2010, 16:38	#402 (permalink)
Xander45 Know-It-All Champion May 2009 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Fratton Park, play up Pompey! Posts: 18,109	David Gill: Red Knights should forget about Man Utd bid \| The Sun \|Sport\|Football.

3rd March 2010, 16:41	#404 (permalink)
kietotheworld Platini's mum Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Machete's Chop Shop Posts: 11,601	If they do take over and he keeps his job he'll be sucking them off in the media from day one.

3rd March 2010, 16:50	#405 (permalink)
Sonny Feehan Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,512	Surprised that little mention has been made of the 200M debt reduction. Is this because it is not important or because it doesn't fit in with the anti-Glazer sentiments? Just curious.

3rd March 2010, 17:03	#407 (permalink)
Rood nostradamus like gloater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Republik Of Mancunia Posts: 12,999	Surely this could have been posted in one of the many, many threads we already have on these subjects.

3rd March 2010, 17:23	#414 (permalink)
comlag Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Daydream Nation Posts: 1,789	Probably the best article I've read so far since this famous monday night meeting.

3rd March 2010, 18:06	#419 (permalink)
charleysurf Talks sense Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,612	Why is it wrong to sceptical about the "RedKnights" when nobody knows who they are and how much money they have? It would be better to get new owners without the club being driven to bankruptcy and relegation. But those currently pimping for Keith Harris and his band of unknown heroes seem to disagree. To quote RedRichio: "Trying to prevent financial ruin by actively driving for financial ruin. Genius."

3rd March 2010, 18:07	#420 (permalink)
phelans shorts First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Gaz. Is a Mewling Quim. Posts: 19,520	theres no proof the red knights have enough money, meaning more debts meaning we are in as bad if not worse position as we are now. i'm anti glazer but need more proof of funds from these redknight, hell for now even names will do!

3rd March 2010, 18:08	#421 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons from a deckchair" Posts: 59,522	In answer to the second question, an uber-rich version of Randy Lerner buying the club would be nice.

3rd March 2010, 18:08	#423 (permalink)
Dr. Dwayne Slacker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Back where I don't belong Posts: 46,404	put yer money where yer mouth is, Red Knights.

3rd March 2010, 18:12	#424 (permalink)
Rood nostradamus like gloater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Republik Of Mancunia Posts: 12,999	I think many fans are just waiting for some concrete info about the Red Knights and their plans. e.g. how will the fans be involved? where is the money coming from? etc I am encouraged that some wealthy people, who are apparently also United fans, are interested in taking over the club but until I see real details of what they propose then I wont be getting too excited.

3rd March 2010, 18:14	#425 (permalink)
gaffs First Team Sub Join Date: May 2007 Location: Moscow 08, Rome 09, London 11 Posts: 9,994	I want Glazer Out. Is doesn’t mean that i want anyone to come in and take over. The fact that they are reds is defiantly a positive thing. But they most important thing for me is know how they are going to finance the deal, how they are going to deal with the debts and how they plan to take the club forward. Until i know that, im not throwing my support behind them. Where have they said they will run United as a not for profit organisation? Like it or not, there are worse owners out there than The Glazers.

3rd March 2010, 18:15	#426 (permalink)
prateik First Team Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 19,029	whats stopping the redknights from continuing where the glazers left off the debt will increase and there will be more owners wanting to have things their way no point being too fixated on getting rid of one evil and making way for something worse

3rd March 2010, 18:17	#428 (permalink)
Nialler Alex's Dad Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nyler Posts: 9,858	you'd be mad to accept the Red Knights on face value alone, people are right to be suspicious of someone telling them to bring the club to its knees in order to rid the club of the Glazers "but don't fret, we'll then step in and make everything allright".

3rd March 2010, 18:17	#429 (permalink)
Ole's_toe_poke First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 18,932	Why shouldn't questions be asked. What's the point of having "anyone but Glazer". We'd rather have owners that are good for Man Utd. So the Red Knights must be vetted in the same way as any potential owner.

3rd March 2010, 18:18	#430 (permalink)
Walrus Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,195	even if the red knights come with some debt, i would have thought it would be at lower interest rates and a lower capital amount than that with the glazers. that and the fact that it could well mean the abolishment of practices like the ACS means supporting them. innocent until proven guilty as far as im concerned, if these red knights are real united fans as has been suggested, i doubt they would laden the club with more debt than can be afforded. suspicion is fair enough, but lets not bite off the hand that could potentially be feeding us.

3rd March 2010, 18:18	#431 (permalink)
Rooney24 First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,552	This is going well isnt it A1Dan???

3rd March 2010, 18:23	#432 (permalink)
comlag Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Daydream Nation Posts: 1,789	FFS they only had a preliminary talks meeting on monday night, give them chance. We have had quite a bit of information since then and it's all sounded positive. United fans, wealthy folk, chance for normal fans to own shares etc etc. Of course we need more concrete info about the details of any takeover to get 100% behind TRK's but the fans are where this will begin and where this will end. I almost feel like Zool: "The Traveller has come!" Just don't think of a giant stay puffed marsh mallow man.

3rd March 2010, 18:24	#433 (permalink)
olesmyhero Emmy Moses Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 4000+ miles west of old trafford Posts: 23,461	I don't know how many of us are actually 'doubting' the Red Knights. We simply don't know enough to make a decision. What's so bad about that?

3rd March 2010, 18:33	#434 (permalink)
Baby Faced Assassin Pastor of Muppets Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Offside Posts: 4,502	Have a feeling, Red knights = Mike Ashley V.2.0.

3rd March 2010, 18:35	#437 (permalink)
Sir A1ex First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Where the goals come from. Posts: 19,907	Wanting to find out more before vomiting is sensible, of course. But there are plenty in here who are actively disparaging the option - which is so self defeating it's untrue. Many are arguing that the whole concept of q consortium of fans is bollocks. As comlag said, they only went public a couple of days ago - give them a chance!