Antonio Valencia...

Solius

He was fantastic tonight. Been a long time since I've seen a full-back get so badly traumatized.

Brwned

He plays as well as he did and you choose to say something like that, it says a lot about you and most if it's not good.

Slightly frustrating.

Feed Me

Someone in the match thread said that's 7 in 15 for Valencia now. Nice. Hopefully he can keep up that ratio and get 15+ goals.

Tumbling-Dice

Hope so too.

Brwned is well on the way to winning our little bet and fair play to him.

I always said it was a win win for me, couldn't be happier to see him banging the goals in but what has been just as impressive for me is the way he keeps possession, his burst of pace and his strength on the ball.

Allforone

Along with Lennon the best right winger in the league.

Rowem

Agreed.

And he fits into the team just perfectly.

Divine

Baffled to read this thread and see that the dominant opinion is that Valencia's crossing's poor. I've watched most of his games this season and have always thought his crossing was good - better than Giggs and Ronaldo at the comparably same stage of their careers.
So, he's not as flash as Ronaldo and Nani, but he's fuckin effective - beating his man and getting the cross in. That's all I ask from a winger.

He's obviously the shy type who'll thrive on regular play and confidence from SAF. I think he's done brilliantly.

KingMinger22

quiet against Hull, brilliant today!


I felt very confident about this lad since november.


He's gonna be brilliant, in the long-term.

Sunny Jim

looked like a possessed player worth 40 mil quid today

Striker10

Nah 81 million

Hopefully he can maintain this form because we're coming to the business end. You have to say, he could end up a bit of a bargain at this rate

JezChan

I'm definitely seeing that he's more effective with Rafael behind him offering overlapping runs and other options for him. Played superbly tonight and hopefully can go on a good run of form.

The only thing I'm worried about is the number of games he's playing. Is he really up for playing so many games like Evra?

Ekeke

I chose to mention his one downside along with his upside and praise him for a good game. Yes it does say a lot about me. I like to have the full picture not just the nice bits.

It probably says a lot about you that you felt the need to judge it too.

Striker10

He's only 24 and the adrenaline will be kicking in. He's having his best ever season and he will be too excited to be tired.

Striker10

How do you know the players just didn't run into the positions he played the balls into? (In the the forwards didn't make good enough runs etc) Maybe it just looked like bad crosses?..who knows. You see a lot of good crosses find no one - it doesn't mean it was a bad ball per say. That said I didn't see the game so my point might not be relevent.

Its all opinions at the end of the day. You should enjoy it more. We're talking about a kid who is progressing.

Brwned

You chose to mention it first, which would imply it was the first thing on your mind. Which would also imply that you're happy to pick on his faults and are constantly focussing on them.

Seems highly unlikely you'd have done the same if Nani had the same game.

Ekeke

good one.

A good cross isnt putting the ball into an area regardless of whether people are around. You look up and you pick someone out. If you can put it right in front of their run, brilliant, but its useless crossing the ball to a certain area if the one guy in the box is 6 yards away. When Valencia keeps the ball on the ground with a pass you dont see him pass the ball into an area someone might be. He has his head up and picks a player out... And its not behind them, its in front of them where they can run onto it. Its that kind of and accuracy thats missing from his crossing.

datura

I laughed when Figueroa finally got forward in the 2nd half and Valencia ran around him and won possession back and you could just imagine Figueroa thinking 'Why don't you just fuck off Antonio...'

Ekeke

I mentioned it first because it was the one thing that stopped it from being a faultless performance.

Not that its any of your business what I write first of all. All that matters is that its a balanced account, as it was.

Brwned

And pretty much every other player in the league, which is kind of the point.

He's a better crosser than most.

Striker10

Some players have the 'knack' of being in the right area. Is it the person crossing, is it the striker or midfielder or a combination...

I didn't see the game but you can't always pick players out. So you need a variation in crosses. If you aim for someone and it goes behind them, then fair enough but it depends on the situation.

Your talking about perfect football. I think you just need to get some sleep......because we won 5- nil and Valencia had a good game by the sound of things. Why over analyse?

Btw from someone that's played football, I know what i'm talking about but obviously, as I said, I did not watch the game - my point is why don't you just enjoy it you miserable bastard?

Feed Me

Brophs

Confidence is they key for most footballers. You can see it in Valencia that he's starting to believe he belongs at this level. In his first couple of seasons Ronaldo was a bit shy with the goals, but he brought that side of his game on leaps and bounds, and that looks to be what Valencia is doing too. I only make that comparison because he's going to end up with an extremely good winger's tally if he keeps going the way he is, and that can make all the difference.

His style of play might not be to everyone's tastes, but he's brutally effective on form. And he has the right attitude to the game, so he digs in when he's not. You can't ask for much more from a lad in his first six months at a team trying to win the title for the fourth year running, who's making a huge step up, and is being asked to replace arguably the best player in the world.

Ekeke

You have him down as the best crosser at the club. I'm obviously not going to get any reasonable argument from you on this subject.

Brwned

And you think it's too early to call him a reliable goalscorer.

Yes yes, I'm the one being unreasonable, you're completely unbiased.

Ekeke

If nothing else, this game should have told you that Rafael is a better crosser of the ball than Valencia. He'd be one of many, but it only takes one to prove you wrong.

It is very early to call Valencia a reliable goalscorer even though he's obviously done a very good job getting on the scoresheet so far. He's more convincing when he scores clean goals and not deflected ones.

Feed Me

5 of his 7 are "clean". In fairness, Ronaldo scored a fair number of deflections as well.

sincher

Nailed down the right wing spot now. Good lad.

Brwned

Like it only takes a couple of goals to prove you wrong, eh?

I'm not saying I see Valencia objectively, I don't see why I wouldn't since I was very unsure of him before this season but it doesn't bother me, but don't preach what you can't practice.

He's had a very good season for us, he's only getting better and I'm happy to look at the positives of him this season since there've been so many.

Divine

Spot on

Fergies Formula

Brwned just remember ekeke is always right and will never back down, even when he holds such a strange stance. Just walk away, we can all see he is being a Twat. Class performance Tony V well done

Ekeke

Its nothing like the same though. Either Valencia is the best crosser at the club, or there are others who can cross better than him. Those being Rafael, Giggs and so on. We've seen Valencia in good form and we've seen him have loads and loads of attempts. Its something that can be settled right now because we've seen him cross the ball shit loads of times.

Valencia has only played so many games for us. So far he's definately done very well with getting on the scoresheet, but he wouldnt be the first player to have a good scoring run and not go on to be a realiable goalscorer. Its something that can only be proven one way or another, over time. Over multiple seasons. Over the course of his career. In a year's time will he still be scoring goals or will they have dried up? We cant know that yet. He's done very well in this regard, but a reliable goalscorer will keep it up. We can only assume one way or another. It hasnt been proven.

Sultan

Rafael and Valencia are a great combination on the right. My only concern would be Rafa drifing in-field which could have been punished a couple of times today.

Wish Evra had a good consistent left winger to play alongside...

Denis' cuff

I've been thinking this for a while and I think it showed a bit vs Hull where he looked a bit jaded. He was subbed and maybe it was a bit of a wake up call for him. Not that he's needed it because he's been due an off day. His under-stated style is really refreshing in an era of prima-donnas and he is so effective, strong and hard-working. Considering this is his first 6 months he's been fantastic.

I don't know where this criticism about his crossing comes from at all. I don't think anyone else at the club is better and if any criticism is due here, I'd say it's often the strikers being a bit slow to get on the end of them. It does highlight us not having a full-on natural goalscorer because somebody like Ruud would've had a bagfull when they've otherwise gone begging. Still, we're not doing too badly.

Joga_Bonito

Perhaps, although it can only be thought of as definitive evidence of Rafael's superior crossing ability in this particular game, which may or may not be yet more evidence of his superior crossing ability, overall.

To be fair, though, you could well be right. However, it's important to remember that the ball is often either played back to Rafael, or laid in to his on-running path, meaning that he is usually unchallenged, and has both the time and space to decide where to place the ball. He also arrives later and from a deeper position, meaning that he likely has a much better picture of what is happening in the box, and many of the strikers runs are likely to have already begun, meaning that he doesn't have to second guess — at least to the extent that Valencia does — where they might end up.

And he often crosses the ball from far fewer positions than a wide midfielder. If the ball is laid in to his path, as was the case for Rooney's goal, he simply played the ball square. If it is laid back to him, he generally curves the ball in to an area, which is certainly a skill, but not that difficult, in my experience.

Valencia often has none of those advantages. Starting from much further up the field, he usually has to wait until the strikers — who are often in line with him when he picks up the ball — start to make runs at varying angles, all of which he has to attempt to read. He also often has to beat a fullback, first, which means that it is far more difficult to lift your head, read the various runs, and then find a player. Unlike Rafael, Valencia likely has no idea where he will be able to release the ball from, so to pick out a man requires a lot more skill and judgment.

An example of the point that I am making would be to envisage Gary Neville — an excellent crosser of the ball — playing in Valencia's position and having to beat a man first of all. It's an unfair comparison, in other words, for both players, but it is fairly certain that Gary Neville would look a much poorer crosser of the ball if he did have to create the crossing angle himself.

Crossing a ball is actually a more difficult and complex task than many realize. "Picking out a man" often means that you have to successfully read where a run will end up, and then find that run, at the right pace, height, etc. If you can pick someone out who is level with you, in an area where they can score, that is far easier than finding some who needs to first find space, meaning that they may move in any direction, depending on the position of the defenders.

One of the reasons that Beckham is so good at crossing is because he doesn't need to beat a man, and he is also able to curve the ball from almost an angle in to dangerous areas. I wouldn't be surprised if Beckham admitted that with roughly 80% of the goals that he creates from crosses, he is simply playing the ball in to an area — knowing that players are in the vicinity, of course — rather than specifically looking to find a players head, or foot, etc.

Valencia is simply not that type of player, and the current strikers are not the type who can make an average or poor ball in to a good one, either — at least, not in the air.

sammsky1

One of the many things Im liking about Valencia is his temperament. I noticed tonight after he scored that he did not go into a huge celebration dance but kept it very low key and just quickly accepted congratulations from his team mates with just a little smile. It was the same when he crossed the ball for Berbatov's goal and got congratulated for that too.

He seems to have his feet on the ground and is fully focussed on settling into his new job and letting his football do the talking. Nothing flash or cocky about him, just serious professional team player delivering consistently good performances.

He now has half a season behind him that has gone as well as it possibly could. He can look forward to spring knowing that he has the fans on side, that he has a valuable position in a team that needs him and that he can look forward to winning cups and medals.

I did not think this signing could go this well so quickly. SAF hits the jackpot once again.

Sultan

Brilliant reasoning JB

Brwned

As always.

Articulate's things about football better than I'd ever imagined anyone could.

charleysurf

Fantastic analysis. Good well-reasoned points. Ekeke is just completely owned in a systematic fashion.

We better keep an eye on him in case he starts giving RedCafe a good reputation.

Ekeke

Thanks. I know. And it is not the first time Rafael has shown superior crossing ability, even though I did specify this match.

And while that was a very well written post, I hope it wasn't for my benefit as it didn't bring anything to the table that I didn't know already. A good general insight into crossing though.

Alex

He looks so much more dangerous when playing with a RB that gets forward well