Bebe Loan Watch | Back from injury

The Taurean · 10th June 2011, 18:08

wonder if we will ever unravel the mystery of Bebe.
Should get the playing time in there. However, wonder if a championship side here would have been better for him!

alastair · 10th June 2011, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

How many games have you watched him in?

I made a point of watching him in every first team appearance he made. Also, quite sadly, I caught quite a lot of clips of him in the reserves. He's not 16-17, he's 20 years old. Although 20 is hardly finished product age, he's not even any product at the moment. Are you convinced he'll return to United? I'm pretty sure he's just another Manucho.

Hectic · 10th June 2011, 18:10

Raven Blade · 10th June 2011, 18:11

If anyone didn't think Sir Alex means business in this transfer window, then they should now. In public he won't admit signing him was a mistake but privately he will regret not having a good look at him first. Fergie is making tough decisions about the squad very quickly and anyone who doesn't fit those future plans is outta here.

Even now i'm still not sure what to make of him. Bebe has to be the most bizarre signing we've ever made. Good luck to him at Besiktas, I hope he makes a decent player of himself because I don't expect him to return from this loan. We have other youngsters ahead of him in technical ability with more potential to be fulfilled.

Siorac · 10th June 2011, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Taurean

wonder if we will ever unravel the mystery of Bebe.
Should get the playing time in there. However, wonder if a championship side here would have been better for him!

For his style and for his level of ability, certainly.

Although the fact that he needs half a pitch for his first touch makes him more suited to League One or League Two, to be fair.

He's strong and quick with very little technical ability: an archetypical English lower league player.

alastair · 10th June 2011, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Yeah...on the other hand you know fuck all about football

That may be so, but not rating Bebe is probably not the best argument to use against me.

Decotron · 10th June 2011, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvin

good riddance

suitable tagline

Hectic · 10th June 2011, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by alastair

I made a point of watching him in every first team appearance he made. Also, quite sadly, I caught quite a lot of clips of him in the reserves. He's not 16-17, he's 20 years old. Although 20 is hardly finished product age, he's not even any product at the moment. Are you convinced he'll return to United? I'm pretty sure he's just another Manucho.

And you saw absolutely nothing there to suggest he could ever be 'half-decent'? I saw plenty there. He's not consistent, and has yet to make an impact, but to say he has nothing is ridiculous. He needs time, and a fair bit of it before we can start to see if there is potential there. I think he has a chance too, what I won't say is that he has no chance of coming back, based on the little we have seen of him.

Solius · 10th June 2011, 18:14

I can see where alastair is coming from. With most youngsters they do something in the first team that makes you think 'yeah they've got something'. Bebe has done this in the reserves but to do it in the first team is something different all together and he hasn't shown this yet.

Hectic · 10th June 2011, 18:15

In fairness, he's not had the background of most youngsters, especially the ones we are used to seeing. It's clear he needs more time than the average signing, with fitness, mentality and understanding of the game at this level, it's a huge step up, and to form hard conclusions at this point doesn't really make sense. I think the expectations of him at this point, so early on are far too high.

Red Defence · 10th June 2011, 18:16

Quote:

DoronSalomon Doron Salomon @
@ekehale he's quick, got a powerful shot and likes to dribble. He's not good in the air, not a good crosser but does learn quickly
27 minutes ago

Quote:

DoronSalomon Doron Salomon @
@xbirchy he's learnt and improved over 12 months, the basic skills to his game are much better. I'd have kept him in the Res for another yr

Tend to agree with that.

Ole's_toe_poke · 10th June 2011, 18:16

I have to agree with Alas-tard.

He's just been plain below average in his appearances. Nothing to suggest he'll be a United player. If his stint with us helps him become a decent pro then I'd be happy that we made a difference to his career.

He may have been good with the reserves, but the difference between reserve and competitive football is as big as a list of girls that Giggsy has shagged.

SecondFig · 10th June 2011, 18:18

Hope he comes back as I'd love to see him prove all of the doubters wrong....

...but sadly I rather expect to him to go the way of Manucho and Tosic - bought, didn't impress, loaned out and then sold

alastair · 10th June 2011, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

And you saw absolutely nothing there to suggest he could ever be 'half-decent'? I saw plenty there. He's not consistent, and has yet to make an impact, but to say he has nothing is ridiculous. He needs time, and a fair bit of it before we can start to see if there is potential there. I think he has a chance too, what I won't say is that he has no chance of coming back, based on the little we have seen of him.

Well for his sake, I do hope he has something in his locker. I just didn't see it personally. Ferguson's defence of him was strange - it was almost as if he was trying to convince himself of his own words. This loan move is a particularly bizarre one though because he's not going to get an awful lot of time on the pitch. He'd have been better off either going back to Portugal or going out on loan somewhere local, but in the Championship or League 1.

alastair · 10th June 2011, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

In fairness, he's not had the background of most youngsters, especially the ones we are used to seeing. It's clear he needs more time than the average signing, with fitness, mentality and understanding of the game at this level, it's a huge step up, and to form hard conclusions at this point doesn't really make sense. I think the expectations of him at this point, so early on are far too high.

This is a very reasonable point, in fairness.

Ubik · 10th June 2011, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solius

I can see where alastair is coming from. With most youngsters they do something in the first team that makes you think 'yeah they've got something'. Bebe has done this in the reserves but to do it in the first team is something different all together and he hasn't shown this yet.

People are too quick to form conclusions over young players, and aren't very good at spotting potential, as Fergie has said. It was said that he'd take a few years right after he'd joined the club. He needs to improve a lot, but I can't see why people seem so obsessed with slating him. The guardian journo's the worst for it.

Edit - "In fairness" has been used far too much already.

KM · 10th June 2011, 18:23

Gerçek Gündem: Türkiye'nin ihtiyac?...

Anyway there's a little excerpt in the end, something related to 2.5Mil. Google translate hasn't been helpful, any Turkish caftard here which can translate

Quote:

Gösterdiği performans ile beklentileri karşılayamayan oyuncu için Mancherster United'ın yaklaşık 2.5 milyon bonservis bedeli istediği ve Siyah-Beyazlı kulübün menajer Mendes'in de katkıları ile bu futbolcuyu kadrosuna katmaya yaklaştığı belirtildi.

Red Dreams · 10th June 2011, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

In fairness, he's not had the background of most youngsters, especially the ones we are used to seeing. It's clear he needs more time than the average signing, with fitness, mentality and understanding of the game at this level, it's a huge step up, and to form hard conclusions at this point doesn't really make sense. I think the expectations of him at this point, so early on are far too high.

agree fully Hectic.

Zarlak · 10th June 2011, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

In fairness, he's not had the background of most youngsters, especially the ones we are used to seeing. It's clear he needs more time than the average signing, with fitness, mentality and understanding of the game at this level, it's a huge step up, and to form hard conclusions at this point doesn't really make sense. I think the expectations of him at this point, so early on are far too high.

Good post, you sign a young kid from one of the lowest leagues around where the standard of play is much lower with the aim of improving him in a few years and people expect him to show talent immediately like the kids that have come from the best league in the world.

Ole's_toe_poke · 10th June 2011, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hectic

In fairness, he's not had the background of most youngsters, especially the ones we are used to seeing. It's clear he needs more time than the average signing, with fitness, mentality and understanding of the game at this level, it's a huge step up, and to form hard conclusions at this point doesn't really make sense. I think the expectations of him at this point, so early on are far too high.

Ok this old ground again.

However, while he may need more time, where is this extraordinary talent that made us simply have to have him? Surely if our scout saw such a talent that we had to have him immediately, a talent so good that no time could be wasted in SAF researching the player, then we'd have seen glimpses of it by now on the pitch.

I just think the most likely scenario is we got a little bit duped by someone creating hype around him with supposed interest from Madrid.

At the end of the day if he turns out to be not good enough we'll probably recover a lot of the 7 million. Hence no big loss really. If he turns out to be mint then well done.

Anyway, as I said its old ground. Best of luck to him on his loan.

Hectic · 10th June 2011, 18:31

It's not reasonable, or rational. We knew he would be extremely raw, given his experience at this level is a million miles off. Why there's suddenly a backlash about something that should have been expected, is beyond me. What it is, is over-expectation and a complete lack of patience. It would have been wonderful if Bebe had come with an impact, or more to his game that we could easily see, but was that a likely scenario, or a bit of a pipe dream? I can't even fathom the amount of intense work that has to done on him, in a multitude of areas, but before that has even started to any real degree, he is being judged as of right now. A complete lack of context is being applied to Bebe here.

Cina · 10th June 2011, 18:31

I think he's is genuinely the craziest transfer we've ever made, whether he becomes a good player or not. It's so, so odd.

charleysurf · 10th June 2011, 18:31

wouldn't a Portuguese team have been a better destination? culturally Turkey can be a shock for some players, and Bebe seems like a player who has low confidence at the moment.
I think there is some good potential in Bebe, but he really needs to feel confident in himself.

Kelvin · 10th June 2011, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cina

I think he's is genuinely the craziest transfer we've ever made, whether he becomes a good player or not. It's so, so odd.

buying him without seeing him play, i don't understand SAF statement with that?

Siorac · 10th June 2011, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

Good post, you sign a young kid from one of the lowest leagues around where the standard of play is much lower with the aim of improving him in a few years and people expect him to show talent immediately like the kids that have come from the best league in the world.

Then again, we have Chris Smalling who had his own footballing education at Maidstone United but proved himself to be a remarkably composed Premier League defender after only 13 games for Fulham. His technique is, at the moment, considerably better than Bebe's.

I somehow expected a young Portuguese attacker to be skilful but lacking in decision-making, awareness, vision, teamwork, stamina. Instead we got a clumsy battering ram. His awful touch and close control has little to do with lack of academy education, there are plenty of players in shite leagues all over the world who are more technically adept than Bebe.

VoetbalWizard · 10th June 2011, 18:36

cutting the fat off the squad.

brilliant.

Anderson8 · 10th June 2011, 18:37

I have a soft spot for Bebe, given his childhood, and you can understand why this first season hasn't gone well for him. I'd like to see him prove himself and come back, but unfortunately I don't see it. I mean, Fergie can be a stubborn man, and he might just take on the challenge of trying to make Bebe a United player, even if he deep down, can see that he is not. However, I think in this case its more likely he'll be brutal, you can see that the level Bebe's at currently is below what we'd usually expect from a 20 year old in the first team, and although that's perfectly understandable in this case, because it is somewhat of an exceptional case, there's no need to go out of our way to focus on developing him, when it would be much easier to bring in somebody from the reserves, or another youngster who has far fewer question marks. It would be cruel on the lad, but if he isn't actually up to it, there isn't any room for sentiment.

Pogue Mahone · 10th June 2011, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleysurf

wouldn't a Portuguese team have been a better destination? culturally Turkey can be a shock for some players, and Bebe seems like a player who has low confidence at the moment.
I think there is some good potential in Bebe, but he really needs to feel confident in himself.

Yeah, Vassel's blog from his stint in Turkey was unbelievably depressing. I hope Bebe has a happier experience but can't say I'm too hopeful.

Devil may care · 10th June 2011, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by KM

Gerçek Gündem: Türkiye'nin ihtiyac?...

Anyway there's a little excerpt in the end, something related to 2.5Mil. Google translate hasn't been helpful, any Turkish caftard here which can translate

Meet the performance expectations for the player with the United Mancherster testimonial about 2.5 million cost of the club's new manager wants and Mendes in white in black-and-add with the support of the staff approached the footballer said.

Siorac · 10th June 2011, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil may care

Meet the performance expectations for the player with the United Mancherster testimonial about 2.5 million cost of the club's new manager wants and Mendes in white in black-and-add with the support of the staff approached the footballer said.

Only "metallic Serbian rapist" is missing from that.

Brwned · 10th June 2011, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole's_toe_poke

Ok this old ground again.

However, while he may need more time, where is this extraordinary talent that made us simply have to have him? Surely if our scout saw such a talent that we had to have him immediately, a talent so good that no time could be wasted in SAF researching the player, then we'd have seen glimpses of it by now on the pitch.

I just think the most likely scenario is we got a little bit duped by someone creating hype around him with supposed interest from Madrid.

At the end of the day if he turns out to be not good enough we'll probably recover a lot of the 7 million. Hence no big loss really. If he turns out to be mint then well done.

Anyway, as I said its old ground. Best of luck to him on his loan.

Yeah, Querioz is known for trying to get one over Sir Alex...

And we obviously haven't paid 7m for him. That'd be the maximum fee given a certain number of appearances for us and the national team along with other performance-related clauses and the like.

Hectic · 10th June 2011, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Yeah, Vassel's blog from his stint in Turkey was unbelievably depressing. I hope Bebe has a happier experience but can't say I'm too hopeful.

Yeah that was horrible, truly felt for him reading that.

Zarlak · 10th June 2011, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siorac

I somehow expected a young Portuguese attacker to be skilful but lacking in decision-making, awareness, vision, teamwork, stamina. Instead we got a clumsy battering ram. His awful touch and close control has little to do with lack of academy education, there are plenty of players in shite leagues all over the world who are more technically adept than Bebe.

That's because of your own ideas about young Portugese attackers and what they are like which isn't Bebes fault, are they based on Nani and Ronaldo?

Top · 10th June 2011, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Yeah, Vassel's blog from his stint in Turkey was unbelievably depressing. I hope Bebe has a happier experience but can't say I'm too hopeful.

Hadn't heard about that. What was the jist of it?

Ole's_toe_poke · 10th June 2011, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwned

Yeah, Querioz is known for trying to get one over Sir Alex...

And we obviously haven't paid 7m for him. That'd be the maximum fee given a certain number of appearances for us and the national team along with other performance-related clauses and the like.

Queiroz didn't really have anything to do with it. The player was recommended by our scout in Portugal. We may have panicked slightly and rushed into it with alleged interest from Madrid.

Also the 7 million, I have no clue if it was paid upfront or not. But I wouldn't be surprised if the upfront fee was slightly on the higher side considering he had only just signed for his new club a month before.

Siorac · 10th June 2011, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

That's because of your own ideas about young Portugese attackers and what they are like which isn't Bebes fault, are they based on Nani and Ronaldo?

No, more like on several generations of Portuguese attackers.

Still, I don't mind battering rams, and my point was mainly that his technical ability (or lack thereof, to be precise) is quite shocking. Not the type of attacker I'd want for Manchester United, no matter how quick and strong he is.

Hectic · 10th June 2011, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top

Hadn't heard about that. What was the jist of it?

Poor Darius Vassell...

Zarlak · 10th June 2011, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siorac

No, more like on several generations of Portuguese attackers.

Still, I don't mind battering rams, and my point was mainly that his technical ability (or lack thereof, to be precise) is quite shocking. Not the type of attacker I'd want for Manchester United, no matter how quick and strong he is.

That's why he's going to take a few years to grow, be polished and be nurtured.

The fact is, you've said you're disappointed with him as you expected him to be something he wasn't. That's not Bebes fault. You have to take him for what he is.

jgraham · 10th June 2011, 19:02

This for me isn't a good move for bebe in terms of his long term career at the club. I personally think if we had any belief in the player then he'd have been loaned to a club in England so we could better keep a track of his progress and have him back at the club every so often. It's always been said that he needs to be given time to adjust and I just don't see how a move to Turkey will allow for that.

Beginning of the end for him at United in my opinion but i'd very much love to be proven wrong.

Sunny Jim · 10th June 2011, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leg-End

Nothing to not like about it, let him get some proper playing time.

I think he needs proper education not first team action. Imo Fergie gave up on him.

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10th June 2011, 18:08	#41 (permalink)
The Taurean First Team Sub Join Date: May 2009 Location: Nothing is so common as the wish to be remarkable. Posts: 6,782	wonder if we will ever unravel the mystery of Bebe. Should get the playing time in there. However, wonder if a championship side here would have been better for him!

10th June 2011, 18:10	#43 (permalink)
Hectic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mike Phelan WILL kill you. Posts: 64,714

10th June 2011, 18:11	#44 (permalink)
Raven Blade Dull Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Why do it the easy way? Do it the United way! Posts: 31,959	If anyone didn't think Sir Alex means business in this transfer window, then they should now. In public he won't admit signing him was a mistake but privately he will regret not having a good look at him first. Fergie is making tough decisions about the squad very quickly and anyone who doesn't fit those future plans is outta here. Even now i'm still not sure what to make of him. Bebe has to be the most bizarre signing we've ever made. Good luck to him at Besiktas, I hope he makes a decent player of himself because I don't expect him to return from this loan. We have other youngsters ahead of him in technical ability with more potential to be fulfilled.

10th June 2011, 18:14	#49 (permalink)
Solius I am a mod, I swear Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Everybody will be dancing and be doing it right. Posts: 49,500	I can see where alastair is coming from. With most youngsters they do something in the first team that makes you think 'yeah they've got something'. Bebe has done this in the reserves but to do it in the first team is something different all together and he hasn't shown this yet.

10th June 2011, 18:15	#50 (permalink)
Hectic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mike Phelan WILL kill you. Posts: 64,714	In fairness, he's not had the background of most youngsters, especially the ones we are used to seeing. It's clear he needs more time than the average signing, with fitness, mentality and understanding of the game at this level, it's a huge step up, and to form hard conclusions at this point doesn't really make sense. I think the expectations of him at this point, so early on are far too high.

10th June 2011, 18:16	#52 (permalink)
Ole's_toe_poke First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 22,948	I have to agree with Alas-tard. He's just been plain below average in his appearances. Nothing to suggest he'll be a United player. If his stint with us helps him become a decent pro then I'd be happy that we made a difference to his career. He may have been good with the reserves, but the difference between reserve and competitive football is as big as a list of girls that Giggsy has shagged.

10th June 2011, 18:18	#53 (permalink)
SecondFig First Team Sub Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: ▲ You Are Here? - Maybe you think we were all a sheet in the wind's eye. But I'll tell you I was sober Posts: 5,815	Hope he comes back as I'd love to see him prove all of the doubters wrong.... ...but sadly I rather expect to him to go the way of Manucho and Tosic - bought, didn't impress, loaned out and then sold

10th June 2011, 18:31	#61 (permalink)
Hectic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mike Phelan WILL kill you. Posts: 64,714	It's not reasonable, or rational. We knew he would be extremely raw, given his experience at this level is a million miles off. Why there's suddenly a backlash about something that should have been expected, is beyond me. What it is, is over-expectation and a complete lack of patience. It would have been wonderful if Bebe had come with an impact, or more to his game that we could easily see, but was that a likely scenario, or a bit of a pipe dream? I can't even fathom the amount of intense work that has to done on him, in a multitude of areas, but before that has even started to any real degree, he is being judged as of right now. A complete lack of context is being applied to Bebe here.

10th June 2011, 18:31	#62 (permalink)
Cina Love Nani, Hate Ando Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Bandwagon Posts: 23,996	I think he's is genuinely the craziest transfer we've ever made, whether he becomes a good player or not. It's so, so odd.

10th June 2011, 18:31	#63 (permalink)
charleysurf Talks sense Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,239	wouldn't a Portuguese team have been a better destination? culturally Turkey can be a shock for some players, and Bebe seems like a player who has low confidence at the moment. I think there is some good potential in Bebe, but he really needs to feel confident in himself.

10th June 2011, 18:36	#66 (permalink)
VoetbalWizard Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: at the altar of ryan giggs Posts: 12,597	cutting the fat off the squad. brilliant.

10th June 2011, 18:37	#67 (permalink)
Anderson8 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,190	I have a soft spot for Bebe, given his childhood, and you can understand why this first season hasn't gone well for him. I'd like to see him prove himself and come back, but unfortunately I don't see it. I mean, Fergie can be a stubborn man, and he might just take on the challenge of trying to make Bebe a United player, even if he deep down, can see that he is not. However, I think in this case its more likely he'll be brutal, you can see that the level Bebe's at currently is below what we'd usually expect from a 20 year old in the first team, and although that's perfectly understandable in this case, because it is somewhat of an exceptional case, there's no need to go out of our way to focus on developing him, when it would be much easier to bring in somebody from the reserves, or another youngster who has far fewer question marks. It would be cruel on the lad, but if he isn't actually up to it, there isn't any room for sentiment.

10th June 2011, 19:02	#79 (permalink)
jgraham Company man, hitched. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: punching cats for eggs at a dustbin near you Posts: 16,523	This for me isn't a good move for bebe in terms of his long term career at the club. I personally think if we had any belief in the player then he'd have been loaned to a club in England so we could better keep a track of his progress and have him back at the club every so often. It's always been said that he needs to be given time to adjust and I just don't see how a move to Turkey will allow for that. Beginning of the end for him at United in my opinion but i'd very much love to be proven wrong.