Berbatov's season thus far: some facts

GusHiddink

Odd, id have gone more the other way....rooney has been curbed a little if anything and ronaldo is more or less the same but makes much better decisions....

both players have improved but moulded?? I dont know maybe. I suppose ronaldo has been moulded...rooney?

marcosdeto

the truth is that against wigam he had a great first period and a not bad second

and if rooney or carrick had score the sitters berbatov handed them, we wouldn't be talking about Tevez but about berbs

Tevez's Mum

Rooney has been moulded to play from the wings, and be a threat from the wings. He has changed his style from when he was first here, but its not necessarily a bad thing. Fergie likes the idea of putting Ronaldo up top and playing Rooney off him as support. As you could say Ronaldo may not be the better finisher but some way or another he makes sure he gets goals.

GusHiddink

If my auntie had a penis...... she'd be my uncle....

But i get your point

marcosdeto

pervert, i bet you have wet dreams about your auntie with a cock

well, who doesnt?

GusHiddink

ok...1stly ronnie has to go down as by far the better finisher doesnt he?

2ndly this whole playing ronnie as a striker business only seems to be done in the big big games (and/or away from home) because fergie is obviously worried about his contribution defensively. Otherwise we'd see ronaldo upfront week in week out. Id still say his best position is outside right with freedom

Mockney

Berba was very good against Wigan...But looking at stats like these means fuck-diddley-uck all....We could work out how many points each individual player has averaged out when in the team and pick the team according to that...I mean Macheda has a pretty good average right?...You know what, I bet thats what Fergie does..

I mean really...Stretching doesn't do it justice.

When Berba plays well, we notice, like we did yesterday...When he doesn't, similarly, we notice. Hoepfully we'll notice him playing well a lot more next season and in the last 3 games..

Treble

There are very different opinions about players' performances and particularly about Berbatov's, so the use of "we" in that case is unjustified. You for example didn' notice that he was very good against City as well and characterised his contribution as "minimal". He was involved in both goals against City. Yesterday he wasn't.

Stats are more important than you seem to realise. And they are important for SAF, too. He uses computer analyses, when he thinks about the team for the next game. Guess what computer analyses provide and deal with: stats. Stats do not determine who will play but they may reveal interesting aspects which even experienced managers struggle to notice during a game.

The example with Macheda doesn't work as Macheda has started 1 game and Berbatov 29. You may be lucky the team to win when you start. But this may happen in 1,2,5 or 10 games. When you start in 29 games and the team manages to win 2,48 points per game, then this is more a matter of pattern than of chance.

Livvie

Bloody hell, Treble. You need to get out more.

Treble

aye, you waste more time over here mate, check the stats about posts per day , he he he

Livvie

Over nine years, and most of those posts from the first five.

Tevez's Mum

Out of interest what site do you get all of your stats from? Would like to look at this site.

sincher

Berbatov's been very disappointing for us so far. He's played like a girl in a lot of games.

With a jolt of confidence and a better bra I can see his second season being much better.

Treble

there are many sites mate: the online versions of the Telegraph, the Guardian, espn, premierleague.com, the "website of dreams", ActimStats etc. I have used all of them, not at once of course.

The stats I presented today are very simple to obtain: starts and points per start: everybody can calculate the stats for seconds.

Mockney

Well not really when the team in question is Manchester United...A team that wins the vast majority of it's matches....

Your alluding to the fact that Berbatov has made us better...but it could be just as prevalent to claim it's actually the improved form of, say, Rooney and Vidic (Who presumably played in most of the same games stated)..or indeed the actions of the 10 other people in the team that have bumped up our stats average...

Or the fact that the teams we face could be weaker. Statistics take none of this into account...There's no variable, no reasoning and no perspective in statistics

I could use the same stats with, say, VDS...Presumably he played in all the same gaves Berba did....It wouldn't mean VDS has improved the team anymore than last year, just that things change in football season to season for various reasons

...It's a statistic. It's a cold, emotionless, reactionless thing...It means nothing to me. It does to you, so fair play.

mjs020294

Funnily enough my Auntie does have a penis, and she was my Uncle.

Treble

As far as I can identify objections in that post, they are already answered in my previous posts.


It's inadequate to complain that statistics are "cold", "emotionless" etc as we are talking about opinions and facts, if you want your opinion to be grounded in reality, you will be interested in facts, and stats are a main source for facts. Every opinion about football is more or less related to stats. This can be easily shown. Your opinion that vs City Tevez had a better game than Berbatov is based on stats: goals, shots etc and when you defend it you use stats.

Take the opinion that Berbatov is lazy. You can "translate" it in statements about his movement, running, tackling, passing etc. And if stats show that he isn't worse in these respects than players considered "hard workers", then the opinion that he is lazy is not based on any facts. The same holds for the opinion that he makes us worse: stats can show whether we achieve better results without him or rather with him.

So, stats can prove some things, namely that some opinions aren't based on facts but on misinterpretations and this isn't little. But let's not get academic. Let's agree to disagree (about the use of stats and their interpretation).

redmania

Oh yea, let's use team average points because everyone can see Berbatov is a major influence how on many points we get every game, he is the only player out of 11 on our side in a game of 22 men and his form has been so good that he has been the deciding factor always.

It has nothing to do with our defense, or the form of rooney, ronaldo, carrick etc etc at all.....

Or maybe we can look at irrelevant stats like how many lesser goals we conceded (seriously?) with a new STRIKER who is not exactly pressuring and defending from the front .

If there was a use of the phrase "grasping at straws" ......

Let's be honest... 67 goals in the league is a poor return(by our standards) for the amount of attacking talents we have in this squad.

Laphroaig

I think there recently was a thread with the points per games stats, and Berbatov was on top of it.

Laphroaig

Treble wasn't saying that was he? If there was a use of the phrase "straw man" .......

djemba's arse

I give Berbatov's season a 6/10 so far. He slows us down so much when he's strolling around in midfield, but he's also had some very good performances. He really needs to improve next season.

ralphie88

Can you grasp at straw men?

On Berbs - I remain unconvinced.

Laphroaig

I don't know, what's that got to do with the bit you quoted?

ralphie88

Lighten up Laphroaig.

Hmmm... talking of which, I might have a drop. Or perhaps go with the Dalwinnie instead....

Ringo 07

I have no doubt that Berbatov will be a different player for us next season. He could turn out to be a real favourite with the fans afterall. He definitely slows us down though and has been very very unconvincing so far no matter how many stats you throw behind him. I am sure he is as frustrated with his performances as most of the fans have been with him. I would way prefer Tevez over Berbatov but Berbs has plenty of time to prove his worth. I hope Fergie does not play him in the Euro final though as Giggs, Park and Tevez should all be ahead of him in terms of who deserves to be in the starting line up.

Laphroaig

Ah, it's been a good while since I had some myself. Trying times.

Mockney

Okely Dokely