Can Ronaldo consistently beat his man?

krazyrobus · 6th October 2008, 04:46

I picked this up towards the end of last season, he changed his game to be more of an inside forward than a touchline hugging winger, as a result he didn't use his dribbling skills as much, now watching Blackburn and Aalborg, forgetting that he is still not match sharp he should be able to skin the odd defender regularly.

Alex · 6th October 2008, 04:48

Yes, he is nowhere near truly fit

Alex · 6th October 2008, 04:49

He skinned his defender to set up the goal for Rooney, and then again for Tevez

krazyrobus · 6th October 2008, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

He skinned his defender to set up the goal for Rooney, and then again for Tevez

The goal for Rooney was just tapping it forward at the right time. Not much dribbling prowess needed there, I can do that. Also the flip behind his legs for Tevez seems to be the only thing he does regularly.

Alex · 6th October 2008, 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazyrobus

The goal for Rooney was just tapping it forward at the right time. Not much dribbling prowess needed there, I can do that. Also the flip behind his legs for Tevez seems to be the only thing he does regularly.

Beat the men both times, I remember 3 and 4 years ago when people were complaining about him doing too many moves, you also have to take into account is that he isnt fully fit, when he is fast enough just to glide past most players

kiristao · 6th October 2008, 05:14

I think he gets past his defenders more often then most other players expect for Messi so i wouldnt worry much about it.

krazyrobus · 6th October 2008, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Beat the men both times, I remember 3 and 4 years ago when people were complaining about him doing too many moves, you also have to take into account is that he isnt fully fit, when he is fast enough just to glide past most players

Compare him to 06/07 you can't say he is a better dribbler or takes on his man more. He does it far less now and when he does i'm not seeing the same pazzazz in skinning them. I also said its not only this year, I picked this up towards the end of last season.

VII · 6th October 2008, 06:19

If by skinning you mean toe poke the ball in front and outsprinting the defender in a let's see who gets there first situation then yes.

If by skinning you mean using skills to dribble past defenders gracefully ala Maradona, Best or even a young Giggs then no.

Scholesgoals · 6th October 2008, 06:24

i think it has alot to do with his physique, he's bulked up so much in thelast few years it might have something to do with his agility.

Eto'odinho · 6th October 2008, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazyrobus

Compare him to 06/07 you can't say he is a better dribbler or takes on his man more. He does it far less now and when he does i'm not seeing the same pazzazz in skinning them. I also said its not only this year, I picked this up towards the end of last season.

True, he has "lost" or deliberately decided not to display that quality of his that used to define him as a player. Whilst he is still effective, it makes him more predictable,easier to mark and less exciting to my muppet eyes.

Chris H · 6th October 2008, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eto'odinho

easier to mark and less exciting to my muppet eyes.

Couldn't resist.

Lil Cee · 6th October 2008, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazyrobus

Compare him to 06/07 you can't say he is a better dribbler or takes on his man more. He does it far less now and when he does i'm not seeing the same pazzazz in skinning them. I also said its not only this year, I picked this up towards the end of last season.

i would agree with this. i was haiving a conversation with a friend during the blackburn game about how Ronaldo is less entertaining now than in his younger days but far, far more effective.

it's ironic because when he was 19 or 20, entire defences would drift to the side of the field he was on to help out their fellow defenders and Ronaldo would do a step over and ghost right past them. now everytime he has the ball he carries a legit goal threat and he hardly tries to confuse his marker, he just knocks it past him and runs onto the ball. i just dont think he dominates entire games like he used to. he can pop up with 2 goals in a game and not do much else for 90 minutes.

Red-Indian · 6th October 2008, 07:41

I've noticed it as well. He's best at beating defenders when he's in full flow when he can use his pace and a small trick to leave them for dead. From a standing start, he seems less capable of beating defenders compared to his earlier days. No real complaints though. He's added so much to his game that the loss of his dribbling skills don't hinder his effectiveness for us.

Dippersripper · 6th October 2008, 07:46

He can't consistently beat his man using his dribbling skills like Giggs or Messi, but he uses trickery and acceleration to do that.

Alex · 6th October 2008, 07:48

A lot of times when he used to beat his man, he would do down a blind alley, no when he beats his man it is to set up a genuine scoring chance. He cuts inside more which is to the defenders advantage as it is more dangerous thus the defender is going to play it more effectively usually, as if he just lets Ronaldo run down the wing all he can do to hurt them is put in a cross

FranklyVulgar · 6th October 2008, 08:48

Ronaldo has great skill but his close dribbling is nowhere near the likes of Messi and Iniesta.

What Ronaldo has is pace and power and uses the well tried and trusted push and run. Which works against most people because of how quick he is but put him up against a quick full back like Cashley Cole and Ronaldo rarely gets much out of them if anything.

Scholesy · 6th October 2008, 09:12

What did I say in my Ronaldo thread...

Veron · 6th October 2008, 10:20

He has great pace,determination and really quick feet and uses these to beat his markers,he does tricks more often to taunt defenders than beat them,a quick defender or midfielder can keep him quiet for majority periods,but by god don't compare his dribbling skills to messi or maradona its more i'll kick the ball 10 yards out and beat you for pace dribbling.

x42bn6 · 6th October 2008, 10:31

I think he's still capable of doing close-control dribbling but it's not going to be his best asset as he's so fast and tall. If Crouch could dribble, it would be difficult to see him dribbling through defenses as he's so big - same sort of reasoning for Ronaldo. He's less stable on the ground than Messi due to size. For that reason, he's ironically easier to bump off the ball as his balance is less good than Messi's.

Ronaldo turning into a goalscorer has meant he has had to sacrifice his winger attributes somewhat. While kick-and-run is a trait we typically attribute to Wright-Phillips, Ronaldo can still put the ball where he wants ahead of him.

Messi's greatest asset besides his dribbling is probably his acceleration - Ronaldo's is probably his speed and jerk. While Messi gets up to speed very quickly and then becomes impossible to stop, Ronaldo can do a single dart and skin his marker before his speed gets him away. However, Messi's not really a fast player - if he were any faster, it would be much more difficult for him to control the ball. It's in Messi's interests not to dribble too fast as control is his forte.

FranklyVulgar · 6th October 2008, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by x42bn6

I think he's still capable of doing close-control dribbling but it's not going to be his best asset as he's so fast and tall. If Crouch could dribble, it would be difficult to see him dribbling through defenses as he's so big - same sort of reasoning for Ronaldo. He's less stable on the ground than Messi due to size. For that reason, he's ironically easier to bump off the ball as his balance is less good than Messi's.

Ronaldo turning into a goalscorer has meant he has had to sacrifice his winger attributes somewhat. While kick-and-run is a trait we typically attribute to Wright-Phillips, Ronaldo can still put the ball where he wants ahead of him.

Messi's greatest asset besides his dribbling is probably his acceleration - Ronaldo's is probably his speed and jerk. While Messi gets up to speed very quickly and then becomes impossible to stop, Ronaldo can do a single dart and skin his marker before his speed gets him away. However, Messi's not really a fast player - if he were any faster, it would be much more difficult for him to control the ball. It's in Messi's interests not to dribble too fast as control is his forte.

Messi runs as fast as he can with the ball at his feet under rediculously good control. His dribbling is frightening, he should have scored a cracker against Atletico when he turned their defence inside out at full speed before chipping just wide.

Messi isn't that fast at full speed, he is quick no doubt but Kaka and Ronaldo are much faster at full speed.

As for Ronaldos balance. He has fantastic balance, athletically he is magnificent but he doesn't always use it to it's full potential. He goes to ground far too easy which you never see Messi do.

Messi got a pretty horrible tackle above his knee which drew blood against Atletico and still got up and got on with it.

Ronaldo goes down under a shoulder tackle and waves his hands about. He has the strengh and balance to ride these tackles and i would love to see him learn a little from Messi in that regard. Which is suprising when La Liga is much more known for it's play acting and going to ground than the Premiership.

kouroux · 6th October 2008, 12:31

Please let's not turn this into Messi Vs Ronaldo

It's very hard to expect Ronaldo to consistently beat his man but yes I believe he can do it without relying too much on his pace.
The most important thing is the result it produces however he does

FranklyVulgar · 6th October 2008, 12:35

It's probably to do with defenders learning his game more and more.

Ronaldo is a great dribbler but a good defender will do his homework making it alot easier to combat his attacking moves. He has enough skill to still beat his men but his dribbling style can be countered.

A lesser example would be Aiden McGeady who is another player with no shortage of skill but has struggled more this season with defenders doing a much better job of containing him.

Anyway as people pointed out, Ronaldo isn't fit yet and will get back to his best shortly.

busbysaces · 6th October 2008, 12:38

Im my opinion we see the following pattern from ronnie, which is miles above the average player.

Ronaldo + Man = beat x 0.7

Ronaldo + Man = freekick x 0.2

Ronaldo + Man = loss of possesion x 0.1

Cling Bak · 6th October 2008, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

He can't consistently beat his man using his dribbling skills like Giggs or Messi, but he uses trickery and acceleration to do that.

Completely agree.

Are people practically saying that Ronaldo isn't a good dribbler of the ball here? Or that he's lost what he had? Don't talk nonsense. For years everyone complained that all he wanted to do was dribble past defenders and showboat, now he's delivering in every game with direct, intelligent football and people believe he's lost a part of his game?! Give him the ball on the touchline and if needed, he'll skin almost any defender with whatever means necessary, but with support or the goal in sight, you're more likely to see him push the ball on and cross, or lay it inside and make a run. Much more effective and I'm glad for it.

Eto'odinho · 6th October 2008, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veron

He has great pace,determination and really quick feet and uses these to beat his markers,he does tricks more often to taunt defenders than beat them,a quick defender or midfielder can keep him quiet for majority periods,but by god don't compare his dribbling skills to messi or maradona its more i'll kick the ball 10 yards out and beat you for pace dribbling.

Thats a load of pish. The boy might be pacey but a lot of his trickery is down to his quick feet and turning. Time and time again he has beaten his markers without kick and run. FFS, we are talking about Ronaldo and NOT bleedin' Downing or Lennon!

FranklyVulgar · 6th October 2008, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eto'odinho

Thats a load of pish. The boy might be pacey but a lot of his trickery is down to his quick feet and turning. Time and time again he has beaten his markers without kick and run. FFS, we are talking about Ronaldo and NOT bleedin' Downing or Lennon!

Ronaldo has better dribbling than Downing or Lennon but he doesn't have the glue feet of Messi, Iniesta or Hleb for that matter.

He can always beat his man but the point was "consistently" and the answer is not for a while.

Cling Bak · 6th October 2008, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

Ronaldo has better dribbling than Downing or Lennon but he doesn't have the glue feet of Messi, Iniesta or Hleb for that matter.

He can always beat his man but the point was "consistently" and the answer is not for a while.

Ok, but he's more Ronaldinho than anything close to a kick and run merchant like Lennon or SWP. It's a flick, drop of the shoulder, step over or turn that deceives the defender before his electric pace has even come into it. I don't even slightly question his dribbling or ability to consistently beat his man, he does it every game he plays in.

KingEric7 · 6th October 2008, 13:09

He's a good dribbler, but not exceptional. He's incredible in an open game where he can utilise his acceleration and power.

uae · 6th October 2008, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

Ok, but he's more Ronaldinho than anything close to a kick and run merchant like Lennon or SWP. It's a flick, drop of the shoulder, step over or turn that deceives the defender before his electric pace has even come into it. I don't even slightly question his dribbling or ability to consistently beat his man, he does it every game he plays in.

Yep agree with that

Brad · 6th October 2008, 13:35

I'm not sure anything has changed this season yet, he had a tough time beating his man on Saturday - the assist for Rooney was one of the exceptions, and a great sign of a player not scared to keep trying when it isn't going for him - you have to give the lad chance to get back up to match sharpness. Everyone else has had a full pre season, he hasn't

Ronaldo is more of a Kanchelskis dribbler than say a Messi. He relies mostly on speed of acceleration to beat his man. What marks him out as one of the best at what he does is his rapid ability to change direction when running at pace, but also his foot speed. He can usually touch and move the ball a couple of times before the defender can react once. The thing that makes him arguably (right now the best player on form is

6th October 2008, 04:46	#1 (permalink)
krazyrobus Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, USA Posts: 1,133	Can Ronaldo consistently beat his man? I picked this up towards the end of last season, he changed his game to be more of an inside forward than a touchline hugging winger, as a result he didn't use his dribbling skills as much, now watching Blackburn and Aalborg, forgetting that he is still not match sharp he should be able to skin the odd defender regularly.

6th October 2008, 04:48	#2 (permalink)
Alex Spam Alert! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Californication Posts: 21,224	Yes, he is nowhere near truly fit

6th October 2008, 04:49	#3 (permalink)
Alex Spam Alert! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Californication Posts: 21,224	He skinned his defender to set up the goal for Rooney, and then again for Tevez

6th October 2008, 05:14	#6 (permalink)
kiristao Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Goa, India Posts: 1,108	I think he gets past his defenders more often then most other players expect for Messi so i wouldnt worry much about it.

6th October 2008, 06:19	#8 (permalink)
VII Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ______________________________________ Posts: 1,228,168 Posts: 1,396	If by skinning you mean toe poke the ball in front and outsprinting the defender in a let's see who gets there first situation then yes. If by skinning you mean using skills to dribble past defenders gracefully ala Maradona, Best or even a young Giggs then no.

6th October 2008, 06:24	#9 (permalink)
Scholesgoals Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: THE BULLSHIT AND TYRANNY MUST END, PROMOTE KEPEK! Posts: 1,800	i think it has alot to do with his physique, he's bulked up so much in thelast few years it might have something to do with his agility.

6th October 2008, 07:41	#13 (permalink)
Red-Indian Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Supposedly working in office Posts: 1,147	I've noticed it as well. He's best at beating defenders when he's in full flow when he can use his pace and a small trick to leave them for dead. From a standing start, he seems less capable of beating defenders compared to his earlier days. No real complaints though. He's added so much to his game that the loss of his dribbling skills don't hinder his effectiveness for us.

6th October 2008, 07:46	#14 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,228	He can't consistently beat his man using his dribbling skills like Giggs or Messi, but he uses trickery and acceleration to do that.

6th October 2008, 07:48	#15 (permalink)
Alex Spam Alert! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Californication Posts: 21,224	A lot of times when he used to beat his man, he would do down a blind alley, no when he beats his man it is to set up a genuine scoring chance. He cuts inside more which is to the defenders advantage as it is more dangerous thus the defender is going to play it more effectively usually, as if he just lets Ronaldo run down the wing all he can do to hurt them is put in a cross

6th October 2008, 08:48	#16 (permalink)
FranklyVulgar Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In amoungst the pigs raising hell Posts: 2,644	Ronaldo has great skill but his close dribbling is nowhere near the likes of Messi and Iniesta. What Ronaldo has is pace and power and uses the well tried and trusted push and run. Which works against most people because of how quick he is but put him up against a quick full back like Cashley Cole and Ronaldo rarely gets much out of them if anything.

6th October 2008, 09:12	#17 (permalink)
Scholesy biggest idiotic gay in the village Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Village Posts: 4,003	What did I say in my Ronaldo thread...

6th October 2008, 10:20	#18 (permalink)
Veron Varun Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,110	He has great pace,determination and really quick feet and uses these to beat his markers,he does tricks more often to taunt defenders than beat them,a quick defender or midfielder can keep him quiet for majority periods,but by god don't compare his dribbling skills to messi or maradona its more i'll kick the ball 10 yards out and beat you for pace dribbling.

6th October 2008, 10:31	#19 (permalink)
x42bn6 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: PMing people with maths homework answers - feel free to ask Posts: 3,731	I think he's still capable of doing close-control dribbling but it's not going to be his best asset as he's so fast and tall. If Crouch could dribble, it would be difficult to see him dribbling through defenses as he's so big - same sort of reasoning for Ronaldo. He's less stable on the ground than Messi due to size. For that reason, he's ironically easier to bump off the ball as his balance is less good than Messi's. Ronaldo turning into a goalscorer has meant he has had to sacrifice his winger attributes somewhat. While kick-and-run is a trait we typically attribute to Wright-Phillips, Ronaldo can still put the ball where he wants ahead of him. Messi's greatest asset besides his dribbling is probably his acceleration - Ronaldo's is probably his speed and jerk. While Messi gets up to speed very quickly and then becomes impossible to stop, Ronaldo can do a single dart and skin his marker before his speed gets him away. However, Messi's not really a fast player - if he were any faster, it would be much more difficult for him to control the ball. It's in Messi's interests not to dribble too fast as control is his forte.

6th October 2008, 12:31	#21 (permalink)
kouroux Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Poitiers (France) Posts: 4,797	Please let's not turn this into Messi Vs Ronaldo It's very hard to expect Ronaldo to consistently beat his man but yes I believe he can do it without relying too much on his pace. The most important thing is the result it produces however he does

6th October 2008, 12:35	#22 (permalink)
FranklyVulgar Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In amoungst the pigs raising hell Posts: 2,644	It's probably to do with defenders learning his game more and more. Ronaldo is a great dribbler but a good defender will do his homework making it alot easier to combat his attacking moves. He has enough skill to still beat his men but his dribbling style can be countered. A lesser example would be Aiden McGeady who is another player with no shortage of skill but has struggled more this season with defenders doing a much better job of containing him. Anyway as people pointed out, Ronaldo isn't fit yet and will get back to his best shortly.

6th October 2008, 12:38	#23 (permalink)
busbysaces Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,129	Im my opinion we see the following pattern from ronnie, which is miles above the average player. Ronaldo + Man = beat x 0.7 Ronaldo + Man = freekick x 0.2 Ronaldo + Man = loss of possesion x 0.1

6th October 2008, 13:09	#28 (permalink)
KingEric7 Winner of the Tabata bet Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Patrice Evra is that which no greater can be conceived. Posts: 13,558	He's a good dribbler, but not exceptional. He's incredible in an open game where he can utilise his acceleration and power.