Darren f*cking Fletcher

RedRonaldo

I've always defend him here. All credits to me.

Suedesi

Don't see what the fuss is all about.

Ferguson

I have defended Fletcher from the beginning.

I rate Darren highly as a complete footballer as well.

However in my opinion we were still missing Carrick.

ralphie88

I find this to be a bizarre thread.

United have had a very, very mediocre start to the season, and Fletcher has been played in all bar one game.

The last time he was so integral to the team was pre-Carrick and I think our results spoke for themselves.

He's a great squad player but, like Park, you don't win Champions Leagues and Premierships with them being anywhere near your first choice XI.

e.cantona

Bizarre argument

Wes

I'd love to see the two of those given a go as a partnership, add Anderson to that, and that's a crackin' 3 man midfield.

These lads virtually destroyed Roma's courage at OT.

He's been the best player so far this season getting into dangerous areas, and probably the form player of the season so far (along with Evra lately).

Its a troubled existance you lead, right enough

ralphie88

What, that when Fletch is a starter for us we win fuck all but when he's a bit part player we bags Premierships and European Cups? I thought it was pretty basic to be honest.

But IQ levels in the Cafe have been dropping sharply in recent years. I blame global warming and fast food.

esmufc12

I think that is a fair summary to be honest.

I admire Fletcher for his hard work and for staying here despite not playing as much as he would have liked. He very rarely lets us down in the big games (Roma, Milan, Chelsea) and is a valuable squad player to have, but like Ralphie said, I don't think he should be a regular starter for us, especially when the likes of Scholes, Carrick, Anderson etc. are fit.

Great squad player to have, nothing more.

e.cantona

Still dont get it. Ronaldo was part of our first choice XI while we won fuck all.

ralphie88

Yes, but he didn't get dropped when we got someone better in. This is pretty basic stuff mate.

Q: When Ronaldo was a first choice starter have we won Premierships and European Cups?

A: Yes.

Q: When Fletcher was a first choice starter did we win the Premiership/EC?

A: No. We only won those trophies after Carrick/Scholes replaced him.

e.cantona

We didnt get anyone better in, or did I miss that one

Ekeke

Fletch wasnt the same player 2 years ago. Just like Ronaldo wasnt the same player 2 years ago.

gaffs

Someone once said "you dont win anything with kids". Could this be your Hansen moment Ralphie?

Ppl may have said the same about Carrick a few years back.

This could be Fletchers break through season.

wancolos

Fletcher has certainly come along way in the last couple of season.

When that is said, he's not, nor will he ever be good enough to hold down a regular spot in the midfield but now he's reached a level where I don't cringe if I see him in the line-up against one of the top teams.

KingEric7

Fletcher's becoming a hell of a squad player to have. Glad for him really, considering all the stick he's got in the past.

wancolos

He seems to be able to contribute with a couple of goals as well, which is handy.

ralphie88

You are spot on. The next question you need to ask yourself is why we didn't get anyone better in for Ronaldo but did get someone better in for Fletcher. Then you'l be ready to confront the uncomfortable truth.

United will not win the Premier League with Fletcher as first choice centre midfield.

You heard it here first and you can bttt this as and when (I certainly will).

e.cantona

That may well be considering we've got quite a few centre midfielders these days. But based on what he's done the last couple of years it's kind of strange to write him off like that, and then call it 'basic stuff'

surf

Fletcher has been one of our better players this season, along with Ferdinand and Evra. I think he might continue to improve for another couple of years. He'll get regular games as Scholes isn't up to 2 games a week and Hargreaves (and, it seems, Carrick) are injured much of the time. Other than Fletcher, all our centre midfielders are goal shy.

Ekeke

We got players in because Fletcher - as a young player - wasnt deemed good enough to start week after week. Another reason we got players in was because we needed a larger squad to battle on all fronts.

Or did we get Hargreaves in because Carrick isnt and never will be good enough?

ralphie88

Bingo.

And it's easy enough to test out my hypothesis, let's wait and see.

ralphie88

Carrick.

Talk Geordie bloke, reads the game well, breaks up opposition attacks, plays a good ball, took over the No.16 shirt. He arrived.... er, ell when we started winning stuff again.

e.cantona

For Ronaldo. You've already answered that one mate

ralphie88

There wasn't a replacement. That was my point!

e.cantona

For who, Ronaldo?

ralphie88

*bangs head against wall*

Goodnight.

e.cantona

Good night

Ekeke

You conveniently missed the other part of my post.

Tell me, did we sign Owen Hargreaves because Michael Carrick was deemed not good enough?

Or were we padding out our squad with quality aquisitions, just as with the players brought in to compete with Fletcher in the middle?

The Hairdryer

You have nerve about going on about other posters IQ levels when you are using a ridiculously specious argument.

The only time Fletch was first choice, when we were winning nothing, is when he is job was nothing more than being the legs for Roy Keane in a three-man midfield.

A system that did not suit Fletch or the team.

Besides, he's improved. People with high IQs don't usually hold three year old prejudices against people. They realise that players can improve, sometimes in leaps in bounds, which is what Fletch has done really.

Keep throwing strawman arguments around though Ralphie. At least you'll have your scapegoat at the end of the season, should we win nothing.

Suedesi

Decent squad player, should not be a starter, end of.

hotshot2004

Fletcher has come leaps and bounds, He has proved a lot of people wrong with his performances. a quality player, who always gives 100% to the team. Good work lad. Glad that he was not sold.

The Hairdryer

This is a rather childish argument. You can't just label people as "squad players" and "starters". If his performances are better than his peers then he should be in the team.

hotshot2004

i agree, its not the contract or salary that decide who will play, if rooney or roanldo or ferdinand is not playing well, he/they should be dropped from the team to someone who is scoring goal or is in form and thats was SAF did against Bolton.

Wembley Red

Its the squad that wins you the pls and cls. And its squad players like fletch that are so important to the team! (i.e. squad players that are good enough to destroy the top teams!!!)

giggs-beckham

Fletcher's not world class.

giggs-beckham

Good player though and seems to be the most fasionable player on here at the moment thats for sure.

Alex

My what a few years difference it makes

Cold_Boy

Sadly,Spot on.

Logan!

Players like Fletcher are vital to us. In my opinion he'll never be ahead of
Carrick in terms of footballing ability, but he's a valuable squad player who
isn't interested in personal glory. He does tend to play very well in the big
games and it would be good if e could play consistently well instead of just
impressing every once in a while.

Tribec

What an odd thread this is!!

So many people defending Fletcher when he's been scapegoat numbers 1 through to 5, for so many in here. I'll openly admit that I've used him as a scapegoat before now, but then I'll also respond to that by always at least attempting to defend him.

My defence has always tended to be 2 fold, in that he's been played out wide and he clearly isn't a "winger", which has always led to major criticism from everyone in here. My other complaint with Fletcher, was/is the fact he tries to play too many killer balls from impossible positions. Look back at my responses and you'll constantly find that I've said he's a little like Beckham, a little like Keane, but no where near as good as either. So far Fletcher has been compared to Scholes, Butt and Beckham by others in this thread so far. Perhaps there is something about this, in that Fletcher isn't a unique talent, but a bit of everything which is what a midfielder should be.

I would point out also that when Fletcher has played well in the middle of the midfield against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Roma etc. we've all called for Fergie to leave him in the middle and so far this year apart from a couple of games he's been in the middle and doing well. I think it's clear that playing him wide in a midfield 4 isn't conductive to a good performance from Fletcher, however for the team he'll do a job, and whilst we moan about him when there, let us not forget that we've seen Rooney play out of position for quite some time and it's only in the last month or so that we have started to perhaps moan about him, and again the complaints are more about position than playing ability.

Would I have let Fletcher go during the summer? Yes, I think I would have, we've got talent coming through and for me he'd been around the first team for a while and yet really hadn't stamped any sort of consistent authority on it. However he's just starting to do that now, let's see how this season unfolds and what he does. He's got talent for sure, it's putting it to use consistently which is now important for him, and this year is his biggest test to date.