Eagles, Martin and Gibson

Brad · 22nd July 2008, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNome

On the first point, I'm not so convinced, I used to think he had great potential, not so sure now, and how old is he btw? I forget.

On the second point, not sure bar maybe Rossi we've had players of the ilk of your Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles etc since that period. This can be blamed largely with the end of the reserve league as we knew it and the whole loan thing in our experience hasn't really worked out that well for us either since Beckham went to Preston, which leaves me thinking, what's the answer?

A player needs to be at a cetain level before you can take the gamble of putting them straight into the first team of United, and at the moment they are just not getting the game time at a good enough level to get there.

Gibson is twenty

He's getting game time in the first team now. Question is will that continue, assuming he isn't loaned out, come the new season? He tried it with Eagles early last season, but he didn't look up to it and he didn't feature again. I think he's onto a loser with Eagles, just don't see it happening. Now Gibson doesn't look a world beater for his age, but he looks capable and assured. You won't find out if he can cope for sure unless you throw him in there. I can guarentee if you don't, he won't!

It's a matter for Fergie to decice

VoetbalWizard · 22nd July 2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNome

On the first point, I'm not so convinced, I used to think he had great potential, not so sure now, and how old is he btw? I forget.

On the second point, not sure bar maybe Rossi we've had players of the ilk of your Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles etc since that period. This can be blamed largely with the end of the reserve league as we knew it and the whole loan thing in our experience hasn't really worked out that well for us either since Beckham went to Preston, which leaves me thinking, what's the answer?

A player needs to be at a cetain level before you can take the gamble of putting them straight into the first team of United, and at the moment they are just not getting the game time at a good enough level to get there.

the answer is, unless you are willing to stick around and don't care about playing much and is content just to put the red shirt on, if you aren't shit hot prodigy, its better to develop away from ot.

if gaz or phizza were coming up now, they would've never broken in at united. the bar has been raised by chelsea. even becks i think would've been 50/50. giggs is the only 100% garuntee from that class of 92 that would've played consistently in this side at the age of 17-21. i'd peg scholes at 80-85% of making it in this united side if he were coming up. we cannot afford to give games other than the carling cup to the young lads.

the 7 man bench will help somewhat though. but unless the player is british/true home grown, if you are semi-good (pique) to even at the cusp of youth greatness (rossi), you'll demand a move away to get games and develop.

VoetbalWizard · 22nd July 2008, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Gibson is twenty

He's getting game time in the first team now. Question is will that continue, assuming he isn't loaned out, come the new season? He tried it with Eagles early last season, but he didn't look up to it and he didn't feature again. I think he's onto a loser with Eagles, just don't see it happening. Now Gibson doesn't look a world beater for his age, but he looks capable and assured. You won't find out if he can cope for sure unless you throw him in there. I can guarentee if you don't, he won't!

It's a matter for Fergie to decice

will gibson's lack of mobility and pace hurt him though? i mean the prem is quicker than ever before. atleast fletch has got a brilliant engine on him.

Razwan000 · 22nd July 2008, 23:34

simpson was given couple of chances and impressed....
but when was the last time sir alex put in a youngster from the academy into the first team until the lad was about 22-23..

(since the class of 92)

samabachan · 22nd July 2008, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMarcello

You're missing a certain Giuseppe Rossi who has more first team appearances than Campbell and Evans. Technically he made it in the first team during the 2005/06 season making 5 league appearances, 3 league cup appearances, 2 FA Cup appearances and a single CL appearance. He was listed on the subs sheet many times as well as being included in the traveling squad. He never established himself at the club and I'd be surprised if Campbell does. But Rossi is clearly the best youth product since Brown and/or Scholes.

I do think Evans has the best odds of the current group of youngsters.

a) Rossi didn't technically come from the youth team.
b) I think Evans is better for his age and position and has more potential too. That's not to take away from Rossi's talent but I really rate Evans very highly.

Brad · 22nd July 2008, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by samabachan

a) Rossi didn't technically come from the youth team

Woah there, If Arsenal are getting the credit for all their 'youth products', we can damn well do the same!

Actually, it's disgraceful either of us are getting any of them. Hopefully Platini will do some good and sort that issue out. I fancy it would give Arsenal a greater headache than us mind

Mozza · 23rd July 2008, 00:24

Bar a dozen injuries they are never going to get a chance here, neither is Campbell. I don't have much hope for either of the wingers but given time I reckon Gibson would prove to be atleast as competent as Fletcher, unfortunately for him we've already got a Fletch.

Evans will have a tougher time making the first 18 then Pique, last season we didn't have Mickey or Gazza available

brophs · 23rd July 2008, 01:38

Sadly, IMHO none of those three players are good enough for United. None of them are likely to be good enough in the future. That being the case, we should cash in.

Eagles is so far out of his depth at this club, it isn't even funny. I honestly can't imagine why he is still here, it's quite obvious he won't get a look in unless we have an injury crisis. He's at the age that he should have quite a few seasons of first team football at a good level under his belt, and he is rotting in our reserves. While his fans would rightly say he is a decent footballer; well, he should be. He's at Manchester United, and he's almost 23. It isn't going to happen for him here from what I've seen.

Martin is much the same, but younger. He has nothing to offer that half a dozen other players at the club don't. He'll find his level in the championship most likely.

Gibson I haven't seen a huge amount of, but I know that people in the Ireland set-up seem to have been massively underwhelmed by him. Looking at him at Wolves last season, I struggled to see any signs that he is improving in any real way. Added to that, he is pretty one-paced, so it will be even harder for him to play in a Premier League midfield.

anything about now · 23rd July 2008, 04:51

Gibson was one of our highest rated youngsters in the Reserves in I think, 03/04, along with Simpson, Evans, Pique, Rossi. People were comparing him to Roy Keane because of his tough (accurate) tackling, passing range and bossing of the midfield. Then he was shipped off to Antwerp where he started off promisingly, but faded after a series of niggling injuries. It appears the lad doesn't not have the right mentality, he started becoming very lazy and careless in his game. He was then recalled and thrown off to the Wolves, where he failed to impress yet again. I think he's done.

Eagles and Martin have both looked promising but very inconsistent, the latter is far far far too lightweight and it's no wonder his progress has been stagnated by serious injuries, mostly to his knee. He'd be lucky if he can make it at Championship level, he really needs to toughen up. Eagles *might* scrape it as a squad player but he'd be behind Park, and would only have chances if two or more of our wingers get injured. Any bid higher than 3m for him , we should take it.

KeyserSoze · 23rd July 2008, 05:16

Evans and Campbell are the only ones which have a chance to stick around for me, especially if we dont buy another forward in the case of Campbell. Ferguson has already said Evans will be taking up the role Pique played in the squad last year.

Simpson, Martin, and Eagles are not good enough in my opinion. Eagles does have quite a lot of technical ability but as others have eluded to he is still too weak on the ball and gives the ball away too much for me as well. I think he has the quality to play for a small premiership club though or a Championship team which plays football the correct way. Could see him improving as he gets more games, he cant waste another year of his career in our reserves.

Cold_Boy · 23rd July 2008, 08:11

There is now way Martins and Eagles will make it at United.Eagles physique lets him down big time.

Gibson is a central mid fielder and could become a handy player for us but not a first team player.

Simpson is shit.

Dippersripper · 23rd July 2008, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold_Boy

There is now way Martins and Eagles will make it at United.Eagles physique lets him down big time.

Gibson is a central mid fielder and could become a handy player for us but not a first team player.

Simpson is shit.

jojojo · 23rd July 2008, 09:08

I'm still hopeful about Simpson (who just looks very new to me) and it's a shame Welbeck was injured because I'd like to have seen him on the tour. I'd like to see a couple of the local lads make it.

RedPhil1957 · 23rd July 2008, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlenefan

Piss off you know fuck all

It is good to see someone who argues his case with intelligence.

FranklyVulgar · 23rd July 2008, 10:59

I can't see any of them making it to be honest. Campbell has an outside chance but he wont progress if he isn't given games and he is still a long way off challenging the likes of Rooney and Tevez for a starting place.

Gibson has a bit of genuine quality, infact they all do but it takes more to make it at a club like United. I think the likes of Gibson, Eagles and Martin would all benifit from leaving Old Trafford and getting into a lower prem or a decent championship team.

I seen enough of Martins at Rangers to think he isn't going to be anything in particular.

samabachan · 23rd July 2008, 11:10

Ginson has masses and masses of talent - he was regularly getting compared to Steven Gerrard 2-3 years ago - but he seems to have an absolutely SHITE attitude, doesn't impose himself (which is vital for a midfielder) and doesn't even bother working hard

Bilbo · 23rd July 2008, 11:56

Nowadays, Our youth set-up is little more than another way of generating funds for the club.

Once every few years we might find one player that is extra-special, but on the whole all of these players will be developed and then sold on. Evans is the only player with half a chance at the moment.

BaldwinLegend · 23rd July 2008, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Gibson I'd give some more time too. He looks like he could be a handy player, good build, and has that much needed composure. Thing is, is he seriously going to be given a chance in the first team United midfield? You don't develop in the reserves for me, so he's probably got a decision to make unless we agree a loan with another Premiership side for the season. Personally I'd rather see him take Fletchers squad place, he's had his chances and not done enough for me, give it up to a lad who might yet make the grade

Great points, but you are surely overlooking the fact that Fletcher is invaluable to the squad for the fact that he combines not only decent enough quality and potential, but also the required character to sit on the bench and be perfectly happy to make 5 starts all season.

Fergie knows what Fletcher offers, doesn't expect more, and he gets that - a great team man, who adds to the team morale and is always ready when called upon, however sparingly.

SAF isn't employed just to create a team with 11 stars who play gorgeous football - he needs a squad diverse and deep enough to carry United on several fronts, at home and abroad.

Players such as Fletcher are absolutely vital to that - say we're playing Milan in the CL semi final and an injury crisis means we're down to the bare bones in midfield - I'd be quite happy to call upon Fletcher in that situation whereas I would be nervous as hell to play Gibson under such circumstances.

Flamini went from being a Fletcher-esque squad player to a 1st team regular at Arsenal to a Milan player in the space of a season and a half. These guys are easily overlooked but do have a purpose and should be valued accordingly.

Razwan000 · 23rd July 2008, 19:34

although fletcher had his moments last season...he could be replaced by a better player id say give gibson his chance....
fletcher for me is not reliable enough...

Raven_Blade · 23rd July 2008, 22:50

This really is make or break time for them. They have got talent but now is the time for consistency. If they are not pushing hard enough to get into the first team then they never will. Only the best of the best will get through these days. I would like more homegrown players in the team but if they dont get there on merit, then they do not deserve to.

R.Nilsson7 · 24th July 2008, 06:59

After United's 1-0 win over Orlando Pirates on Tuesday, ManUtd.com journalist Nick Coppack asked Sir Alex to assess the contributions of the team's younger players. Here's what he had to say:

"Chris Eagles and Lee Martin haven’t played enough football over the last two or three years and they’ve come to an important time in their careers.

"Lee, in particular, has been very unfortunate in the loan spells he’s had. He’s picked up a couple of long-term injuries. Of course, at that age these kids want to play football all the time.

"Meanwhile, Chris Eagles had the opportunity to go on loan last season and didn’t want to. Because of that, and the form of the team, he was dependent on Reserves football, which, at his age and the progress he’s got to make, isn’t enough for him.

"I have to find out more about those players and that’s why I bring them on tour and it’s why I played them [against Orlando Pirates].

"As for Jonny Evans, he went to Sunderland in January and did very well. In fact, I think he was very instrumental in them staying up. Jonny's a very good footballer, who reads the game well and has good composure. He’s got a career in football – there’s no question about that.

"Darron Gibson went to Wolves last season and injuries, as well as a family bereavement, derailed his time there. He needs to get football – he’s a big, powerful lad with good feet and he has a chance.

"Then there's Fraizer Campbell, who spent time at Hull City last season and had an incredible season. He has to improve in certain aspects of his game, but he has a chance as well.

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6614415&page=2

Drifter · 24th July 2008, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Nilsson7

After United's 1-0 win over Orlando Pirates on Tuesday, ManUtd.com journalist Nick Coppack asked Sir Alex to assess the contributions of the team's younger players. Here's what he had to say:

"Chris Eagles and Lee Martin haven’t played enough football over the last two or three years and they’ve come to an important time in their careers.

"Lee, in particular, has been very unfortunate in the loan spells he’s had. He’s picked up a couple of long-term injuries. Of course, at that age these kids want to play football all the time.

"Meanwhile, Chris Eagles had the opportunity to go on loan last season and didn’t want to. Because of that, and the form of the team, he was dependent on Reserves football, which, at his age and the progress he’s got to make, isn’t enough for him.

"I have to find out more about those players and that’s why I bring them on tour and it’s why I played them [against Orlando Pirates].

"As for Jonny Evans, he went to Sunderland in January and did very well. In fact, I think he was very instrumental in them staying up. Jonny's a very good footballer, who reads the game well and has good composure. He’s got a career in football – there’s no question about that.

"Darron Gibson went to Wolves last season and injuries, as well as a family bereavement, derailed his time there. He needs to get football – he’s a big, powerful lad with good feet and he has a chance.

"Then there's Fraizer Campbell, who spent time at Hull City last season and had an incredible season. He has to improve in certain aspects of his game, but he has a chance as well.

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6614415&page=2

Judging from that article i would say Lee,Chris and Jonny Evans have no future at United and Gibson and Campbell may have made the grade.

Name Changed · 24th July 2008, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleysurf

I give Gibson a chance. But Eagles and Martin need to move permanently for their own sakes.

Gibson has enough talent to become a good PL quality central midfielder. But it takes a good bit of experience to reach that level for a central midfielder usually.

Another loan move would be good for him.

Evans certainly should be a long-term United player. He could be the best central defender in the PL if he keeps developing as he has. Fergie must keep him away from Sunderland.

Campbell will certainly be a good PL quality striker. He's quick, works hard, does well in build up play and he has a top attitude. Obviously it's always going to be hard for him to be a first-choice striker at United as that's an incredibly high standard to reach. He will certainly be a big asset to United though. With a 7 man bench he's always going to be a great option to have.
Maybe another loan deal, to a PL side, would be the best thing to happen to him this season though? We probably need him around until at least August 31st though as we need his pace when Nani and Ronaldo are out.

Danny Simpson might be a good option this season with lingering doubts about Gary Neville's fitness. A loan deal to a PL club like Villa would probably be ideal for his development though.

I'd agree with the majority of this. I don't believe that either Simpson or Gibson have the quality to make it at United though, although they could develop into decent PL players at some stage, but for Sunderland or Wigan, someone like that.

R.Nilsson7 · 24th July 2008, 09:42

I think they need Premier League experience. Evans benifited from his Sunderland spell as did Richardson with West Brom in 2005.

Werewolf · 24th July 2008, 10:10

From all these players, Martin is the one with the most wasted talent. The injuries he picked really blocked his development. Still, i think he has a bright future !

Name Changed · 24th July 2008, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Nilsson7

I think they need Premier League experience. Evans benifited from his Sunderland spell as did Richardson with West Brom in 2005.

Evans is a very good player and he'd be my first choice replacement right across the back four if any of them got injured/suspended. He is better than John O'Shea in my opinion. He is the 3rd best centre back at the club (counting Wes as a rb).

22nd July 2008, 23:34	#44 (permalink)
Razwan000 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Keighley Posts: 1,220	simpson was given couple of chances and impressed.... but when was the last time sir alex put in a youngster from the academy into the first team until the lad was about 22-23.. (since the class of 92)

23rd July 2008, 00:24	#47 (permalink)
Mozza "Geek" Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Let Rooney be Rooney Posts: 16,745	Bar a dozen injuries they are never going to get a chance here, neither is Campbell. I don't have much hope for either of the wingers but given time I reckon Gibson would prove to be atleast as competent as Fletcher, unfortunately for him we've already got a Fletch. Evans will have a tougher time making the first 18 then Pique, last season we didn't have Mickey or Gazza available

23rd July 2008, 01:38	#48 (permalink)
brophs Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dublin. Posts: 4,552	Sadly, IMHO none of those three players are good enough for United. None of them are likely to be good enough in the future. That being the case, we should cash in. Eagles is so far out of his depth at this club, it isn't even funny. I honestly can't imagine why he is still here, it's quite obvious he won't get a look in unless we have an injury crisis. He's at the age that he should have quite a few seasons of first team football at a good level under his belt, and he is rotting in our reserves. While his fans would rightly say he is a decent footballer; well, he should be. He's at Manchester United, and he's almost 23. It isn't going to happen for him here from what I've seen. Martin is much the same, but younger. He has nothing to offer that half a dozen other players at the club don't. He'll find his level in the championship most likely. Gibson I haven't seen a huge amount of, but I know that people in the Ireland set-up seem to have been massively underwhelmed by him. Looking at him at Wolves last season, I struggled to see any signs that he is improving in any real way. Added to that, he is pretty one-paced, so it will be even harder for him to play in a Premier League midfield.

23rd July 2008, 04:51	#49 (permalink)
anything about now MUFC lad living in a matriel world Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The captain, the heart and soul of Chelsea Football Club, with one kick of the ball to give them the trophy.... Ohh he's missed it! Posts: 2,810	Gibson was one of our highest rated youngsters in the Reserves in I think, 03/04, along with Simpson, Evans, Pique, Rossi. People were comparing him to Roy Keane because of his tough (accurate) tackling, passing range and bossing of the midfield. Then he was shipped off to Antwerp where he started off promisingly, but faded after a series of niggling injuries. It appears the lad doesn't not have the right mentality, he started becoming very lazy and careless in his game. He was then recalled and thrown off to the Wolves, where he failed to impress yet again. I think he's done. Eagles and Martin have both looked promising but very inconsistent, the latter is far far far too lightweight and it's no wonder his progress has been stagnated by serious injuries, mostly to his knee. He'd be lucky if he can make it at Championship level, he really needs to toughen up. Eagles might scrape it as a squad player but he'd be behind Park, and would only have chances if two or more of our wingers get injured. Any bid higher than 3m for him , we should take it.

23rd July 2008, 05:16	#50 (permalink)
KeyserSoze First Team Sub Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Batigol Posts: 7,121	Evans and Campbell are the only ones which have a chance to stick around for me, especially if we dont buy another forward in the case of Campbell. Ferguson has already said Evans will be taking up the role Pique played in the squad last year. Simpson, Martin, and Eagles are not good enough in my opinion. Eagles does have quite a lot of technical ability but as others have eluded to he is still too weak on the ball and gives the ball away too much for me as well. I think he has the quality to play for a small premiership club though or a Championship team which plays football the correct way. Could see him improving as he gets more games, he cant waste another year of his career in our reserves.

23rd July 2008, 08:11	#51 (permalink)
Cold_Boy Amit Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: somewhere i hate to live Posts: 9,830	There is now way Martins and Eagles will make it at United.Eagles physique lets him down big time. Gibson is a central mid fielder and could become a handy player for us but not a first team player. Simpson is shit.

23rd July 2008, 09:08	#53 (permalink)
jojojo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: It was a life before - it'll be a life after Posts: 1,699	I'm still hopeful about Simpson (who just looks very new to me) and it's a shame Welbeck was injured because I'd like to have seen him on the tour. I'd like to see a couple of the local lads make it.

23rd July 2008, 10:59	#55 (permalink)
FranklyVulgar Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In amoungst the pigs raising hell Posts: 2,644	I can't see any of them making it to be honest. Campbell has an outside chance but he wont progress if he isn't given games and he is still a long way off challenging the likes of Rooney and Tevez for a starting place. Gibson has a bit of genuine quality, infact they all do but it takes more to make it at a club like United. I think the likes of Gibson, Eagles and Martin would all benifit from leaving Old Trafford and getting into a lower prem or a decent championship team. I seen enough of Martins at Rangers to think he isn't going to be anything in particular.

23rd July 2008, 11:10	#56 (permalink)
samabachan Cockface McSticklebrick Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: He plays on the left, he plays on the riiiiiiiight, our boy Ronaldo made you look shite. Posts: 4,252	Ginson has masses and masses of talent - he was regularly getting compared to Steven Gerrard 2-3 years ago - but he seems to have an absolutely SHITE attitude, doesn't impose himself (which is vital for a midfielder) and doesn't even bother working hard

23rd July 2008, 11:56	#57 (permalink)
Bilbo First Team Sub Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,777	Nowadays, Our youth set-up is little more than another way of generating funds for the club. Once every few years we might find one player that is extra-special, but on the whole all of these players will be developed and then sold on. Evans is the only player with half a chance at the moment.

23rd July 2008, 19:34	#59 (permalink)
Razwan000 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Keighley Posts: 1,220	although fletcher had his moments last season...he could be replaced by a better player id say give gibson his chance.... fletcher for me is not reliable enough...

23rd July 2008, 22:50	#60 (permalink)
Raven_Blade Attention Whoring Common Crow Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In Man Utd's Defence. Posts: 18,234	This really is make or break time for them. They have got talent but now is the time for consistency. If they are not pushing hard enough to get into the first team then they never will. Only the best of the best will get through these days. I would like more homegrown players in the team but if they dont get there on merit, then they do not deserve to.

24th July 2008, 06:59	#61 (permalink)
R.Nilsson7 First Team Sub Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dimitar Berbatov's balcony Posts: 6,313	After United's 1-0 win over Orlando Pirates on Tuesday, ManUtd.com journalist Nick Coppack asked Sir Alex to assess the contributions of the team's younger players. Here's what he had to say: "Chris Eagles and Lee Martin haven’t played enough football over the last two or three years and they’ve come to an important time in their careers. "Lee, in particular, has been very unfortunate in the loan spells he’s had. He’s picked up a couple of long-term injuries. Of course, at that age these kids want to play football all the time. "Meanwhile, Chris Eagles had the opportunity to go on loan last season and didn’t want to. Because of that, and the form of the team, he was dependent on Reserves football, which, at his age and the progress he’s got to make, isn’t enough for him. "I have to find out more about those players and that’s why I bring them on tour and it’s why I played them [against Orlando Pirates]. "As for Jonny Evans, he went to Sunderland in January and did very well. In fact, I think he was very instrumental in them staying up. Jonny's a very good footballer, who reads the game well and has good composure. He’s got a career in football – there’s no question about that. "Darron Gibson went to Wolves last season and injuries, as well as a family bereavement, derailed his time there. He needs to get football – he’s a big, powerful lad with good feet and he has a chance. "Then there's Fraizer Campbell, who spent time at Hull City last season and had an incredible season. He has to improve in certain aspects of his game, but he has a chance as well. http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6614415&page=2

24th July 2008, 09:42	#64 (permalink)
R.Nilsson7 First Team Sub Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dimitar Berbatov's balcony Posts: 6,313	I think they need Premier League experience. Evans benifited from his Sunderland spell as did Richardson with West Brom in 2005.

24th July 2008, 10:10	#65 (permalink)
Werewolf Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Secret Conspiracy... Posts: 1,108	From all these players, Martin is the one with the most wasted talent. The injuries he picked really blocked his development. Still, i think he has a bright future !