Evans

Originally Posted by Elliott

1. Wallwork was a CB for England u21s and he mainly played there for our academy teams too. His situation could be compared to that of Matty James these days.

2. Curtis is 3 and a half years younger than Gaz and made his debut 4 years after the Neviller.

Originally Posted by Ivor Ballokov

Stop being such a party pooper. Most people on this site are intelligent enough to understand that potential is only the basis of a brilliant player but it is part of the fun of football that we get excited when players with great potential come around. It's like not getting excited when United attack instead waiting until the ball is in the back of the net.

Originally Posted by devilish

Overrating a player does not only contribute in damaging the player (big star syndrome) but tend in making us look ridiculous. The Carragher 'best defender in the world' syndrome is a classic case.

Originally Posted by Ivor Ballokov

Big star syndrome hasn't exactly done Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs any harm has it?

Every fan shows bias towards their own players but we're hardly getting carried away by saying that the kid has great potential.

Originally Posted by devilish

Youre already putting Evans at Giggsie's, Rooney's and Ronaldo's level? If our homegrown talent have such attitude then no wonder why we havent been able to produce 1 first teamer since the Fergie babes.

Evans is just a young defender with potential, nothing more, nothing less. He will have to work HARD to remain with Manchester United, let alone win a first team place. If he doesnt put that FACT in mind he may well end up like the other Irish player in the team who did well at first and yet he never matured enough (talent wise) to be able to become a first team player.

Originally Posted by devilish

If Evans had half the talent Maldini has than he would have won his place already. Gaz (whose nowhere near Maldini) was only 20 yrs old and still raw but he won his place, despite having to compete with England's right back Paul Parker.

What Im trying to say is that we should wait and see what this player do at the highest level, to determine whether he is a truly great talent or not. There is a big difference between doing well at Sunderland/Westbrom/Celtic level and doing it at top EPL level.

Now if Pique and Evans want to wait for their chance then well and good, if not then they should go. One thing is certian, football is not an easy ride, whether youre playing with Manchester United or not and former 'great talent' like the new Bruce Ronnie Wallwork and the new Gaz John Curtis knows that pretty well.

Originally Posted by Ivor Ballokov

Yes that is clearly what i'm saying. Evans>Ronaldo

To be a player at United you have to cope with expectation, if Evans can't cope with being thought of our most promising defender and a future first team player then it is very unlikely that he will have the mental strength to suceed at the club regardless of talent.

John O'Shea is his name if you were wondering and he has made nearly 200 appearances for United, not exactly a bad career.

Originally Posted by OldRed1

What do you mean by the 'highest level'? If you mean playing in the Premiereship then Evans has done that, If you mean playing Internationals against top opposition (eg Spain) then Evans has done that, if you mean playing for United then he's little chance of doing that if he's not at OT. Maybe we should let him go for 5mil then if he proves to be the terrific player a lot think he'll be buy him back for 20mil.

Originally Posted by devilish

There is a big difference between small EPL sides and big EPL sides. Richardson is the classic example of that. He saved West brom arse, he also had the international debut anyone would dream of having, and yet.....he was pretty shite with us. Taibi is another example. The classic case of a player who was capable of playing incredibly well at small team's level and yet he kept on bottling it when playing with bigger teams.

As stated before Evans is just a young defender with potential, nothing more nothing less. He will have to work hard to remain in the team (expecially since we are already well stocked up of 'potential greats' who werent able to develop to the next level) let alone win a first team place. As stated before, this 'you're destined for greatness' attitude will only damage the player. We are already well stocked up with such talent on the bench not to forget the countless number of new Bruce's and Gary Neville's we have shown the door in the past few years.

Originally Posted by Fortitude

Your comparisons in this thread don't make sense - none of them match the situation for Evans or Pique and you're also tending to go back almost a decade and a half to give examples. The game and the pressure to deliver now is nothing like how it was back then so comparing anything Neville did in breaking into the team to what the youngsters have to do now to break in is like the difference between night and day.

As for Richardson. He played in central midfield for West Brom. He did not play there for us, so drawing up a direct comparison and then attaching bottle, or the lack of, to it, is pointless. Maybe he would have been just as shite on the wing for them as he was for us, we have no evidence either way.

Comparing anyone to the Maldini influence over Milan is also rather pointless. The exploits of Cesare and his hand at that club bought Paolo the time others would not get. Young defenders are not trusted in Italy even if they are exceptional, for the most part. There is no question that Maldini's foot could get in the door because he was connected, well before his talent could be scrutinized. The same will go for his son should he go on to prove himself a player anything close to his dad or grandad.

You'd be best off judging Evans off the back of his own exploits to date. All your examples of other players can be strongly argued against for various reasons. If Evans is good enough he should get his chances. Full stop. He is his own man and there's no need for this 'next insert former legend' stuff you're spouting.

Originally Posted by devilish

He is still miles away from being considered a first teamer let alone a world class article like Ronaldo. What Evans has is potential. Its nowhere near to what Maldini or other legends in that position had, but its enough to enable him a chance in our team, where he will be able to train, learn from the best, get few games here and there and develop that talent. Let us not get carried away because the chances of him failing are high.

The worse thing that it may happen to him now is that he starts believing some of the crap being thrown to him, (ie that he had made it). Once they get that attitude, they rarely keep on developing and that can be clearly seen by some of our once 'great' talent which ended up, either warming the bench or being sold on cheap.

Originally Posted by devilish

Yeah it was all thanks to Cesare that Paulo Maldini became a great player.....

Originally Posted by Fortitude

If that's what you took from what I said, you're a mong of the highest order.

Originally Posted by Ivor Ballokov

Right so you don't understand sarcasm.

He has premiership and international experience, both of which he has been getting positive reports from. He seems to be highly rated by any coach or manager that comes near him. We all know development can be a bitch but that isn't going to stop me becoming excited by a young prospect with the world at their feet maturing into a first team player.

You have no idea what kind of person johnny evans is yet you speculate away if that makes you feel better about your argument. What you don't see is that we're all speculating but you're a cup half empty guy and i'm a cup half full guy, which i'd rather be any day of the week.

Originally Posted by devilish

Youve been twisting and turning my posts ad infinitum, so I thought to cut what had been repeated and just concentrate on what was new. Relax...

Originally Posted by Fortitude

I haven't twisted anything. If a player is a legend at a club, of course his kid will be given every open door possible to get his chance to make it as well. Obviously Paolo was exceptional so didn't look out of place.

Originally Posted by devilish

As I said he is good (altough both Wes and OShea showed greater promise at his age)

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

Dev, first of all Ronnie Wallwork plays midfield, so how can he be the next Steve Bruce? Secondly, John Curtis was on the scene before Gary Neville..so how can he be the new Gaz?

anyway, back to the thread. Evans is a die-hard United fan, all the family are. There is no way he would say that he wants to go to Sunderland. What he did say was that if United chose to let him go, then he would be open to the idea of staying at Sunderland. Big difference.

I've watched Evans since he broke on the scene. I've seen him put lots of big name forwards in his pocket. He has immense potential, which i hope is developed at United. This whole debate about who we should keep out of him and Pique is nonsense. We should keep both if they want to stay and fight for a place. For one of those 2 kids to learn alongside Rio would be an education they could not buy. For me, Rio is now the best CB in the world. Who wouldn't want to play alongside him if possible?

Originally Posted by devilish

I mean do you remember the next 'Steve Bruce' , Ronnie Wallwork?

Originally Posted by devilish

IC.....where is Darren Ferguson?

Maldini was a gem at the same level Ryan Giggs was. At 17 he made his debut and never looked back. Now Ive mentioned him not to discredit Evans in anyway. First of all because I do rate the irish man, secondly because players like Maldini are not rare but unique. I mentioned Maldini to highlight the fact that if Evans is as good as you are potraying him to be (the world at his feet and similar BS) then he would have won his place long ago. Maldini did it, Baresi did it, Buffon did it and they never looked back.

Therefore let us be realistic, work on the facts and conclude that while he has potential and he had done pretty well with Ireland and Sunderland, it is still too early to say whether he will make it or not. FFS we are looking more ridiculous then the Scousers with their Carragher is the best defender in the world brigade. At least they talk in that way about an experienced defender who had lead them to the CL and not some youngster who got ridiculed by a 1st division striker.

Originally Posted by devilish

And ive been watching Evans with both Sunderland and our reserves long enough to build an opinion. As I said he is good (altough both Wes and OShea showed greater promise at his age)



Don't know where you came up with that statement, but even if true it means nothing Phil was much higher rated than Garry!

Originally Posted by Fortitude

You are more than missing the point, but nevermind.

You're basically not giving Evans a chance and citing all kinds of bizarre examples to back your statements up.

How about judging the player on his own merits, accepting that this era is the most ruthless for debutants to get a break and understanding that the method into a team like Manchester United in the current climate is nothing at all like Buffon breaking into Parma's xi almost a decade and a half ago?

All your examples are out of date by years.

And no CB is debuting in the Prem until they are fully grown. At 17 Evans was far too weak to play in the Prem.