Evans and Pique.

Pogue Mahone

Brown had one season where he had a shot at the first-team, when SAF went back to square one in his seek for the next Jaap Stam. By the time this opportunity came round, he was already several years older than Pique or Evans is now.

O'Shea has played shit-loads of football, I agree. And he is the text-book exxample of a player who has been outside the first XI throughout his career (apart from, maybe, a season or two a few years ago) but can still have a great career at United. Which should be very encouraging to Pique and Evans.

Bilbo

That O'Shea stat is surprising. Is that starts?

BTW, where do you get these wonderful stats of yours? I lose patience trying to find the feckin league table.

CnutOfAllCnuts

Not only that, even if Rio had to pack it in when he is 31-32, Pique is not the right player to replace Rio to partner Vidic. Due to his lack of pace.

CnutOfAllCnuts

No, included subs appareances.

It's all in my head

CnutOfAllCnuts

Brown usually played when he was fit from the 2000/2001 season onwards, when he returned from his one year injury absence.

O'Shea came through at the right time. No one had grabbed the left back spot after Irwin's departure, we had quite a few seasons without a settled partner for Rio, and then our centre midfield just disappeared.

The situation for Pique and Evans is very different.

Instant Karma

Of late, our youth team and academy is just to identify squad players. We'll end up paying 30 million for Micah Richards or someone else if we want a first team player.

CnutOfAllCnuts

True, a youngster must be of the Rooney/Ronaldo/Giggs type of talent to properly make it at OT now. The same with the other top clubs.

The likes of Nevilles and Butt would not have made it today.

MrMarcello

Wes Brown (all comps)-
97-98: 1 start, 1 sub
98-99: 16 starts, 5 subs
99-00: Injured in preseason training, out entire season
00-01: 36 starts, 4 subs
01-02: 20 starts, 4 subs (missed 4 months with injury)
02-03: 34 starts, 1 sub (Injured in CL qualifier, returned in November and became starter until injury in May)
03-04: 22 starts, 3 sub (Injury from prior season cost him for 4 months but eventually moved into starting XI with Ferdinand's suspension)
04-05: 33 starts, 4 sub
05-06: 29 starts, 2 sub
06-07: 32 starts, 5 sub

MrMarcello

See the start/sub stats on Brown. He's had a great run of matches at times.

O'Shea is simply this era's version of Phil Neville.

Scholesy

Evans is better. Pique is too slow.

Eto'odinho

Aaah the great nationality debate. Both players look promising and will undoubtedly make good careers in football, injuries and Collymore-Gazza syndrome permitting.
Evans has benefitted from playing with regularity BUT I still think Pique is better than him and hence the reason why Fergie hung onto him in the January transfer window.

Both are however raw and prone to ill judgement and reading of the game at times. They both need to improve big time if they are to make it at United especially as centre backs where the margin of error is minimal.

MrMarcello

Figure Pique would bring in o/a 10m... just enough for the Glazers to write-off the purchase of a new RB.

CnutOfAllCnuts

Looked at United appearances for the last 5 seasons (since 2002/03).

Top ten are:

O'Shea: 265
Giggs: 263
Rio: 255
Scholes: 237
Ronaldo: 228
Silvestre: 222
Brown: 205
Gary Neville: 191
Rooney: 179
Ruud: 170

Ekeke

In all the honesty the way I see it is, if Pique leaves the club he'll find another club where he could be first choice CB in spain or italy. In a year's time he'll be one of the most highly rated players in his position in that league and he'll end up back at Barcelona or one of the other top clubs in Spain.

With Evans, if we let him go this summer, he'd end up at Spurs or Everton in a few years time at best.

Both are good players. And while I'm not sure they'll be our next CB pairing, its probably in the best interests of the club (not the players) to keep them here for another 2 years until one of them gets the chance to pair up with Vidic and fight for Ferdinand's place.

a_devil_inside

Pique is probably more advanced than Evans at the minute.
Evans may be more patient to wait for a chance seeing as he's a United fan but if Sunderland put a bid in he might go.
Pique is at that stage where he needs games, If Brown does leave then we'll still buy another right back

marcus agrippa

i agree with you about Pique. the boy needs games to sharpen his defensive instincts. he has always looked several orders of magnitude better than his own peers when i've seen him play at youth tournaments. we've seen how well his time in Spain served him. i would've loved for him to go out on loan to a Prem side, but we needed the cover.

i can't agree about Evans, though. there's something about him that i just like, and i feel he will do very well with us. perhaps he is not a footballer in the Rio or Pique mould, but he is a damn fine defender (looks as well - god, that was gay! - ahem!!). i hope i'm not proven wrong.

the tricky thing is both these players need experience. at the moment, only Evans is getting top-flight action.

golden_blunder

Pique is the better footballer, Evans is the better defender

I have a huge question over Pique at CB due to his lack of pace

Evans has never failed to impress me as a defender. He's a pretty good man marker, good tackler and good header

BUT Vidic and Rio are still young, so its going to be difficult for either of them.

If it was me, I'd pack both out on season long loans next year and see how they develop. But, if Wes were to leave, I'd keep Evans.

Chris H

Players like Brown and O'Shea (and maybe Evans) are willing to wait that long, since they came up with the club, and playing in another league isn't really an option they'd consider.

But not Pique. He was a starter for Zaragoza last year, and they finished 6th in La Liga. They'd love to have him back and so would some other Spanish clubs. Why would he want to wait around for five years before being "given a chance"?

If he doesn't start soon he'll be off. This summer, next at the latest.

Pogue Mahone

We'll see. It all depends on the extent of his ambition. The opportunity to play for Manchester United doesn't come round all that often and it's a much, much more prestigious club than Zaragoza to play for, even if you're Spanish. At the end of the day, Pique knew exactly how limited his opportunities would be when he snubbed Zaragoza to come back here in the summer.

This season he's had a few games, a couple of Champion's League goals and seems to be enjoying himself. And that's in a season where Rio and Vida have been very lucky with injuries (thank feck!) I don't see why he would turn his back on this in a hurry, no matter what nationality he is. But time will tell, I guess.

CnutOfAllCnuts

How long would you wait around for, if you were him?

December_16

Question is whether we want to let him go or not

Pogue Mahone

As long as it takes. But I'm massively biased

No harm at all giving it another year or two though. He's only 20 years old and that is incredibly young for a central defender. How many other 20 year-old central defenders are getting regular football at a club that gives them a chance to play in the Champion's League?

CnutOfAllCnuts

Point is, he is not getting regular football, and the prospect of him getting regular football for Manchester United over the next 3-4 years is slim.

Pogue Mahone

Which is what people were saying to Wes Brown when he was 20 years old and we'd just signed Jap Staam. Things can change very quickly in football though.

CnutOfAllCnuts

No, people were not saying that about Wes Brown, because:

1) He was having a lengthy spell in the team as a 18 year old, in the first half of the trebble season

2) The squad was smaller, i.e. more opportunities for Brown than there is for Pique at the moment.

Pogue Mahone

Let's wait and see, eh? I reckon Fergie will convince both of 'em to stay. A season out on loan might be a good idea but he may think that this can turn a young kid's head, like Rossi. Be interesting to see what happens in the summer.

Chris H

He knew he wouldn't be first choice with Vida and Rio healthy, but I think he assumed he'd play more than this. 9 total appearances, 3 of those as a sub, and only the recent match against Bolton since the New Year. Has to be a disappointment for him.

You're right in saying that Zaragoza is certainly less prestigious than United, but at age 20 he started for them in a season in which they qualified for the UEFA Cup. If he goes back there, and continues to improve, it probably wouldn't be long before one of the more prestigious clubs in Spain (or elsewhere) were interested. Perhaps they were even interested last summer - we don't really know which clubs were inquiring about him before this season, but by most accounts he impressed at Zaragoza.

Also, as has already been mentioned, there is the possibility that perhaps he's not best suited to the Premiership because of his lack of pace. Some think he'd be better suited to La Liga for that reason. He certainly hasn't won the hearts of United fans (or Ferguson) with his performances here. He did score two goals in Europe, but his defending has been far less effective.

I think he'll ask to leave this summer unless the club promise a lot more football than he's had this year. Playing in the Reserves is not doing him any good at all.

samabachan

I would say Pique's a good footballer and an okay defender whereas Evans is a very good defender and an okay footballer. I know what I'd rather see in a defender.