Fergie on Fletcher...

Instant Karma · 11th May 2008, 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Do you see Rooney played in central midfield or defence to fill a gap? No, because he's too good and too important playing a role up front.

Rooney has filled gaps on the left or right wing while the likes of Giggs or Anderson have played behind in the main striker. Fergie even tried Rooney and Rio in central midfield a couple of seasons ago but we got hammered.

The likes of Keane and Essien have filled gaps in defence. Essien, Gerrard have played in many different positions on the pitch. They must be mediocre players too who will only get a start at Newcastle

Filling a gap at a different position requires ability too. Not everyone can do it and definitely not well enough for a top club.

Chris H · 11th May 2008, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I want what is best for United, and that means a squad of players competiting for a starting place. Fletcher isn't. If he plays, we are a weaker team than if someone else was starting in his place

Sounds like you're saying Fletcher has no place at the club, or at least that his continued presence isn't "what is best for United". I would strongly disagree with that.

You bring up the notion of competing for starting jobs at every position, but I think you're overstating it. In some positions there's competition in that you know that if you slack off or are have a poor run of form, someone will come in and do your job - someone like Fletcher. But we have a clear cut first choice in many positions, which is exactly the way Ferguson wants it. He's not going to bring in another CB the caliber of Rio/Vidic, a left back as talented as Evra, or a goalie as experienced or well-regarded as Van der Sar. We also wouldn't look to bring in Leo Messi so that we can choose one from Messi/Ronaldo, depending on who's competing better for that position.

There's competition within our squad, but there are also clear-cut first choices, which is as I believe it should be. Chelsea tried the "bring in two to internationals at every position" approach, but that's something no club with any fiscal discipline can even attempt.

SittingBull · 11th May 2008, 07:34

To me, Fletcher is like Valdes. The only reason why they are where they are, is simply because they are homegrown players. Otherwise, they would be struggling in mediocrity in the lower divisions. I really mean it. Anybody who label Fletcher as a prodigy when he was much younger, hasn't really watch a lot of football. He is now a backup squad player at best, and wouldn't be a starter for the top 10 clubs in the Premier League.

UnitedRoadRed · 11th May 2008, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I heard all this 'works hard, great engine, fantastic desire' nonsense with Alan Smith. Fact is, he simply wasn't good enough to play for United. That's why he was shifted around positions. Do you see Rooney played in central midfield or defence to fill a gap? No, because he's too good and too important playing a role up front. Smith now isn't even good enough to start for Newcastle. Loyalty to club colours blinds some people. I want what is best for United, and that means a squad of players competiting for a starting place. Fletcher isn't. If he plays, we are a weaker team than if someone else was starting in his place

Agreed. Fletch hasn't developed into the player that at 16 he was expected to. If he was Welsh, would he still be in the squad?

Brad - if Smith isn't good enough, is Johnny Spark?

Chris H · 11th May 2008, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingBull

He is now a backup squad player at best, and wouldn't be a starter for the top 10 clubs in the Premier League.

Teams 5-10 would love to have him. At 5th place Everton for example, Phil Jagielka has made 26 league starts, Lee Carsley 32, and Phil Neville 36.

Best not to even look at West Ham's roster.

mjdj · 11th May 2008, 09:35

I like Fletch and think he does a great job for us in the big games.

He will usually play to the occasion. Bit of a problem when we are playing Bolton or Fulham but great against Arsenal/Liverpool/Roma/Milan.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 11th May 2008, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingBull

To me, Fletcher is like Valdes. The only reason why they are where they are, is simply because they are homegrown players. Otherwise, they would be struggling in mediocrity in the lower divisions. I really mean it. Anybody who label Fletcher as a prodigy when he was much younger, hasn't really watch a lot of football. He is now a backup squad player at best, and wouldn't be a starter for the top 10 clubs in the Premier League.

That is bullshit. Seriously

Rooney gr8 · 11th May 2008, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I heard all this 'works hard, great engine, fantastic desire' nonsense with Alan Smith. Fact is, he simply wasn't good enough to play for United. That's why he was shifted around positions. Do you see Rooney played in central midfield or defence to fill a gap? No, because he's too good and too important playing a role up front. Smith now isn't even good enough to start for Newcastle. Loyalty to club colours blinds some people. I want what is best for United, and that means a squad of players competiting for a starting place. Fletcher isn't. If he plays, we are a weaker team than if someone else was starting in his place

hypothetically speaking..
if we had 5 or 6 world class strikers and an injury crissis in defence and fergie thought rooney would be the best man for the job, then we verywell could see that.
in fairness the comparison is not fair..
flecther has a lot to his game, he is versatile in the positions he can fulfil as is oshea.. he should not be maligned for it.IMHO

giggsyflying · 11th May 2008, 15:52

well fletcher is a good squard player but too many better than him
it depends on whether he is willing to be a squard player

Ekeke · 11th May 2008, 15:59

Essien is played out of position
Hargreaves is played out of position
Rooney has been played out of position

They are all shite then?

Fletcher is a quality player - the best backup to the first team we're going to get. Anyone who cant see that is off his rocker.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 12th May 2008, 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Essien is played out of position
Hargreaves is played out of position
Rooney has been played out of position

They are all shite then?

Fletcher is a quality player - the best backup to the first team we're going to get. Anyone who cant see that is off his rocker.

Beyond marvelously put. Seriously

Chapster · 12th May 2008, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Beyond marvelously put. Seriously

chief do you work for channel 10 in Aussieland? seriously!

but on a serious note, I agree with this. Fletcher is a fantastic player. He has played extremely well in the last two seasons and really shown why he hsa been kept around. Maybe he hasn't turned into the next becks but does that matter? he's playing an extremely important role for the side anyway.

hope he is still playing for us for a long time to come

fatboy · 12th May 2008, 07:49

He's had some really good games, and shown real quality. I'd have no qualms having him play in the biggest games.

Hopefully he accepts his role as a squad player.

Chapster · 12th May 2008, 09:49

I think he does
he knows he's not the star of the team. He just goes on and does his job as required with no complaints.
Very professional

UnitedRoadRed · 12th May 2008, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Essien is played out of position
Hargreaves is played out of position
Rooney has been played out of position

They are all shite then?

Fletcher is a quality player - the best backup to the first team we're going to get. Anyone who cant see that is off his rocker.

Absolute bullshit.

Fletcher was played out of position on the right a couple of years ago and was absolute shite. That's where all this has come from. If he'd have been played in his preferred position in the centre, we'd have seen that he was decent backup there for Scholes and Carrick. O'Shea and Hargreaves are better options for us because they are more competent when playing out of their preferred position, simple as that.

Chris H · 12th May 2008, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnitedRoadRed

Absolute bullshit.

Fletcher was played out of position on the right a couple of years ago and was absolute shite. That's where all this has come from. If he'd have been played in his preferred position in the centre, we'd have seen that he was decent backup there for Scholes and Carrick. O'Shea and Hargreaves are better options for us because they are more competent when playing out of their preferred position, simple as that.

I believe Fletcher contributes more than O'Shea at this point in their careers. O'Shea pitches in here and there, and is a valuable member of the squad, but Fletcher has been tremendous in some very big games for us. O'Shea can't say the same this season.

Ekeke · 12th May 2008, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnitedRoadRed

Absolute bullshit.

Fletcher was played out of position on the right a couple of years ago and was absolute shite. That's where all this has come from. If he'd have been played in his preferred position in the centre, we'd have seen that he was decent backup there for Scholes and Carrick. O'Shea and Hargreaves are better options for us because they are more competent when playing out of their preferred position, simple as that.

So where exactly do I disagree with that? My post was quite clearly pro-Fletcher, Gingertits.

With 7 subs next season we simply wont need utility players. We'll be much better off playing specialised players. Fletcher is a very good central midfielder. O'Shea will find that he only plays in defence. Hargreaves will likely play right back at times but with SAF's faith in Neville and Brown needing games, they may be few and far between. The majority of games he plays will be in midfield.

From our current squad:

7 subs

Giggs/Nani
Fletcher
PIG/Foster
O'Shea
Brown
Anderson/Scholes
Hargreaves

With those options, how exactly is O'Shea going to end up in midfield? Giggs, Hargreaves, Anderson/Scholes and Fletcher all ahead of him. Brown and Hargreaves ahead of him for right back. I've not included Silvestre as there was no space, but we'll likely find that Silvestre is picked ahead of O'Shea when Evra cant play. So how is O'Shea a better option for us?

UnitedRoadRed · 12th May 2008, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

So where exactly do I disagree with that? My post was quite clearly pro-Fletcher, Gingertits.

With 7 subs next season we simply wont need utility players. We'll be much better off playing specialised players. Fletcher is a very good central midfielder. O'Shea will find that he only plays in defence. Hargreaves will likely play right back at times but with SAF's faith in Neville and Brown needing games, they may be few and far between. The majority of games he plays will be in midfield.

From our current squad:

7 subs

Giggs/Nani
Fletcher
PIG/Foster
O'Shea
Brown
Anderson/Scholes
Hargreaves

With those options, how exactly is O'Shea going to end up in midfield? Giggs, Hargreaves, Anderson/Scholes and Fletcher all ahead of him. Brown and Hargreaves ahead of him for right back. I've not included Silvestre as there was no space, but we'll likely find that Silvestre is picked ahead of O'Shea when Evra cant play. So how is O'Shea a better option for us?

Fletcher's shite out of position. Essien's clearly competent out of position, that's where your point falls on its arse dickbrain. My post isn't pro-Fletcher; he's ok where he is, but he's crap out of position. With a 5-man bench, he's not a player who can provide cover for two positions.

UnitedRoadRed · 12th May 2008, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris H

I believe Fletcher contributes more than O'Shea at this point in their careers. O'Shea pitches in here and there, and is a valuable member of the squad, but Fletcher has been tremendous in some very big games for us. O'Shea can't say the same this season.

O'Shea's never going to have a chance to shine with playing mostly as a fill-in defender. O'Shea offers a far greater versatility than Fletcher; out of centre mid, Fletch simply isn't good enough for us.

Brad · 12th May 2008, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnitedRoadRed

Agreed. Fletch hasn't developed into the player that at 16 he was expected to. If he was Welsh, would he still be in the squad?

Brad - if Smith isn't good enough, is Johnny Spark?

I think the difference there is that O'Shea can come on and literally play anywhere. That flexibility makes him worth keeping in my mind. Plus his knack of scoring some vital goals for us of course. Smith could play up front, and that was it (anyone who feels the need to say 'but he could play in midfield' ought to have a long hard look at themselves)

The way I see it, Anderson couldn't get into the squad yesterday, for our biggest game of the season so far, to clinch the title. And he is a far better and more important player than Fletcher is. I simply don't see him featuring much at all, and certainly don't think his game merits it.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 12th May 2008, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapster

chief do you work for channel 10 in Aussieland? seriously!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapster

but on a serious note, I agree with this. Fletcher is a fantastic player. He has played extremely well in the last two seasons and really shown why he hsa been kept around. Maybe he hasn't turned into the next becks but does that matter? he's playing an extremely important role for the side anyway.

hope he is still playing for us for a long time to come

Agreed

FranklyVulgar · 12th May 2008, 14:12

Fact is there was a time when Fletcher got alot of stick and he has turned that around, i would honestly say that most United fans now don't cringe and dislike the fact that Darren Fletcher is a part of the United squad. If people cant see the improvments Fletcher has made and that he is a quality player, not just a good back up but a player with alot of genuine quality then i wonder if they see the same Fletcher that i do.

look at the impact Flamini made this season at Arsenal when he was always on the fringe before. Fletcher has gotten better and better and if he keeps inproving who is to say he cant make that impact or push the players ahead of him for a starting place.

golden_blunder · 12th May 2008, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingBull

To me, Fletcher is like Valdes. The only reason why they are where they are, is simply because they are homegrown players. Otherwise, they would be struggling in mediocrity in the lower divisions. I really mean it. Anybody who label Fletcher as a prodigy when he was much younger, hasn't really watch a lot of football. He is now a backup squad player at best, and wouldn't be a starter for the top 10 clubs in the Premier League.

Horseshit

ShittingBull

Dippersripper · 12th May 2008, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

Horseshit

ShittingBull

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 12th May 2008, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

Horseshit

ShittingBull

Exactly

sincher · 12th May 2008, 14:59

Chempions

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 12th May 2008, 15:03

The biggest irony with these Fletch bashers is they can't admit when they are wrong..I mean..before the season begun..they swore signing Anderson, Hargreaves and Nani was the end of him..and that he would get no games and even O'shea would be more key to the squad than him...

Yet now that they've been proved wrong..they want us to believe that next season they will suddenly be right...with the same already proved wrong arguments

11th May 2008, 07:34	#83 (permalink)
SittingBull Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: There's only 2 great teams in Manchester. Manchester United and Manchester United reserves.. Posts: 1,287	To me, Fletcher is like Valdes. The only reason why they are where they are, is simply because they are homegrown players. Otherwise, they would be struggling in mediocrity in the lower divisions. I really mean it. Anybody who label Fletcher as a prodigy when he was much younger, hasn't really watch a lot of football. He is now a backup squad player at best, and wouldn't be a starter for the top 10 clubs in the Premier League.

11th May 2008, 09:35	#86 (permalink)
mjdj Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 790	I like Fletch and think he does a great job for us in the big games. He will usually play to the occasion. Bit of a problem when we are playing Bolton or Fulham but great against Arsenal/Liverpool/Roma/Milan.

11th May 2008, 15:52	#89 (permalink)
giggsyflying Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Football is not life. It is more than life. Posts: 1,428	well fletcher is a good squard player but too many better than him it depends on whether he is willing to be a squard player

11th May 2008, 15:59	#90 (permalink)
Ekeke McFuckwit Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,913	Essien is played out of position Hargreaves is played out of position Rooney has been played out of position They are all shite then? Fletcher is a quality player - the best backup to the first team we're going to get. Anyone who cant see that is off his rocker.

12th May 2008, 07:49	#93 (permalink)
fatboy Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,119	He's had some really good games, and shown real quality. I'd have no qualms having him play in the biggest games. Hopefully he accepts his role as a squad player.

12th May 2008, 09:49	#94 (permalink)
Chapster Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,374	I think he does he knows he's not the star of the team. He just goes on and does his job as required with no complaints. Very professional

12th May 2008, 14:12	#102 (permalink)
FranklyVulgar Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In amoungst the pigs raising hell Posts: 1,605	Fact is there was a time when Fletcher got alot of stick and he has turned that around, i would honestly say that most United fans now don't cringe and dislike the fact that Darren Fletcher is a part of the United squad. If people cant see the improvments Fletcher has made and that he is a quality player, not just a good back up but a player with alot of genuine quality then i wonder if they see the same Fletcher that i do. look at the impact Flamini made this season at Arsenal when he was always on the fringe before. Fletcher has gotten better and better and if he keeps inproving who is to say he cant make that impact or push the players ahead of him for a starting place.

12th May 2008, 14:59	#106 (permalink)
sincher Les jeux sont Fait Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: YSC Posts: 13,491	Chempions

12th May 2008, 15:03	#107 (permalink)
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Football Fanatics Central..new member of the kill Sjarkus club Posts: 18,284	The biggest irony with these Fletch bashers is they can't admit when they are wrong..I mean..before the season begun..they swore signing Anderson, Hargreaves and Nani was the end of him..and that he would get no games and even O'shea would be more key to the squad than him... Yet now that they've been proved wrong..they want us to believe that next season they will suddenly be right...with the same already proved wrong arguments