Fletcher in rated by pundit shocker!

quethenoo · 9th November 2009, 17:20

BBC SPORT | Football | Premier League | Lee Dixon's tactical view

Page last updated at 14:00 GMT, Monday, 9 November 2009
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Lee Dixon's tactical view

Chelsea's victory over Manchester United on Sunday was obviously a fantastic result for the Blues and leaves United five points adrift of the Premier League leaders.

But United manager Sir Alex Ferguson will not be overly perturbed given the quality of his team's performance on the day.

The United players would have been travelling home on the coach wondering how they lost, and Chelsea boss Carlo Ancelotti might reflect that his men got one over on the champions rather fortuitously.

United got their tactics right and it was one of those games in which you don't necessarily get what you deserve.

As the lone striker, Wayne Rooney did a great job of occupying the opposition centre-backs on his own and United stopped Chelsea's full-backs coming forward like we normally see.

Branislav Ivanovic broke clear on the right a couple of times in the first half but, in general, I thought United's five-man midfield, changing to 4-3-3 when they got the ball, was spot on.

606: DEBATE
To go to the Bridge and be the better team is good - I take heart from that

cumbrian-mu-fan

And in the middle of all that was Darren Fletcher who, when you look at the quality and strength of Chelsea's midfield diamond, performed heroics.

In the first half Fletcher was everywhere and it seemed like his name was mentioned every five or 10 seconds, whether United had the ball or not.

Having played so well, he'll be bitterly disappointed not to have emerged on the winning side, or at least with a point.

Fletcher is so important to United because of his ability to break up opposition forays and turn defence into attack.

When you're playing against strikers with the pace of Didier Drogba and Nicolas Anelka, what you don't want to do is give them space in behind you so United held a fairly deep line.

Wes Brown and Jonny Evans, their centre-backs, retreated more or less to the edge of the box when Chelsea had the ball in their half so it was imperative to have someone sweeping up in front of the back four.

In Fletcher and Michael Carrick, United had two players capable of doing that on Sunday and their importance was magnified by the proven potency of Chelsea's midfield.

People have said Fletcher is more suited to the big games but I disagree - maybe when he has not played in the lesser games it's because Sir Alex is saving him for the bigger ones due to his value

Lee Dixon

Both players are great passers so after picking up lots of 'bits-and-pieces' balls and performing a sharp turn, their first thought is, 'Can I get the ball forward?'. It is vital for a team defending so deep to get moving up the pitch as quickly as possible.

But that pass forward has to be accurate and it has to stick because if you're playing one up front away from home and can't hold onto the ball, it'll just keep coming back at you.

And if you do that against a team of Chelsea's quality, eventually they will hurt you.

The importance, therefore, shifts to Rooney and he did a fine job of keeping possession and enabling the likes of Ryan Giggs and Antonio Valencia to arrive in support.

Chelsea were quite fearful of Rooney's pace so stood off him at times - but take nothing away from the way he led United's attack, creating openings for others and shooting when possible.

Fletcher's all-round game has improved significantly, to the point where I find it difficult to find a single weaknesses.

In the past you might have felt that Fletcher wouldn't have played when everyone else was fit. But now it's almost a case of picking the other eight because he is among two or three players who get into the team full stop.
Darren Fletcher challenges Frank Lampard
Fletcher produced a fine display but ended up on the losing side

People have said he is more suited to the so-called big games but I disagree. Maybe sometimes when he has not played in the lesser games it's because Sir Alex is saving him for the bigger ones due to his value.

Chelsea aside, I actually think he would get into most other top teams because he is a real nuisance to the opposition and has an ability to get you out of trouble time and again.

At Stamford Bridge, he dropped into the back four to make headed clearances on countless occasions - you could call him a sweeper for all positions.

I've not played against Fletcher in the modern game but he reminds me of Paul Scholes, even though they are quite different players from a stylistic perspective.

When people think of big players they think of the flair guys like Cristiano Ronaldo, but you ask the players who have played week in week out against Manchester United and they will say Scholes.

And it's the same with Fletcher. A lot of his work goes unnoticed and a lot of his qualities are not always bubbling over the top. But the key thing is that he is not unnoticed by his manager or team-mates and they are the ones who count.

The one criticism I would have of United on Sunday was their lack of quality from set-pieces, especially as full-time approached.

Chelsea didn't have a single corner - how many teams win a game without getting a corner at home? - whereas United had quite a few chances to put the ball in from corners and free-kicks but their service was poor.

They had four corners in the last 10 minutes and I don't think they knocked in one decent ball. Two were taken by the young substitute Gabriel Obertan which baffled me.

In the 84th minute a chance did fall to Valencia on the far side of the box from a Giggs corner but he shot wide. It's times like those that United miss Ronaldo - he probably would have scored from there.

Lee Dixon was talking to BBC Sport's David Ornstein.

I know some people on here dont rate dixon but i think the guy talks mostly sense so its good to see him acknowledging fletchers performance.

Pogue Mahone · 9th November 2009, 17:22

That's a very fair summary IMO.

Simon Adebesi · 9th November 2009, 17:25

Not that shocking, they were kissing his balls on MOTD2, people are starting to realise how good Fletcher is.

Oh yes, this was written by Lee Dixon, the very same man I was talking about....

Xander45 · 9th November 2009, 17:26

Yeah that seems fair enough to me apart from

Quote:

In the 84th minute a chance did fall to Valencia on the far side of the box from a Giggs corner but he shot wide. It's times like those that United miss Ronaldo - he probably would have scored from there.

Ronaldo would have been attacking the near post

FranklyVulgar · 9th November 2009, 17:29

amazing how pundits who never ever even mentioned him are starting to come around to the fact that Darren Fletcher is a football genius yet their are still numpties on this board who still think he is an average footballer or shit even!

green demon · 9th November 2009, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Adebesi

Not that shocking, they were kissing his balls on MOTD2, people are starting to realise how good Fletcher is.

Oh yes, this was written by Lee Dixon, the very same man I was talking about....

Urrrrrrrrgh! Glad I didn't see that.

EdWeatherall · 9th November 2009, 17:39

They were giving him praise post-match on Sky as well

But come off it, it's not as if he doesn't get praise, I'm sure you can find many an article claiming he was the reason we lost to Liverpool, or to Barcelona

People know how important he really he is to our cause, he's in that group of being one of the first names on the teamsheet

AttackingFlair · 9th November 2009, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

amazing how pundits who never ever even mentioned him are starting to come around to the fact that Darren Fletcher is a football genius yet their are still numpties on this board who still think he is an average footballer or shit even!

There are also people going overboard and saying he's world class.

quethenoo · 9th November 2009, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdWeatherall

They were giving him praise post-match on Sky as well

But come off it, it's not as if he doesn't get praise, I'm sure you can find many an article claiming he was the reason we lost to Liverpool, or to Barcelona

People know how important he really he is to our cause, he's in that group of being one of the first names on the teamsheet

Forgive my sensationalist headlines but was meant to be a bit of tongue and cheek there chaps, but i havent seen too many articles tbh. Anyhoo, wasnt really the point just thought it was a good analysis.

KGBhoy · 9th November 2009, 18:06

I read Dixon's tactical views all the time and quite enjoy them. He seems to know what he's talking about.

Raven_Blade · 9th November 2009, 19:47

Lee Dixon is spot on with his analysis there.

Always nice to see Fletcher getting his deserved recognition as well. He continues to deliver on the potential that few of our supporters believed he had.

kietotheworld · 9th November 2009, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

amazing how pundits who never ever even mentioned him are starting to come around to the fact that Darren Fletcher is a football genius yet their are still numpties on this board who still think he is an average footballer or shit even!

Who has said they think he's shit?

Randall Flagg · 9th November 2009, 21:09

He has been getting loads of praise of loads of pundits over the last couple of years. Before that he wasn't because he was only a squad player.

Sunny Jim · 10th November 2009, 08:08

its very good. shocking.

amolbhatia100 · 10th November 2009, 08:51

I actually thought that for the first hour or so Anderson and Carrick were our better midfielders. In Fletcher and Anderson I feel we have two midfielders who can give us the necessary bite and quality against any team, especially in a three man midfield. They both seem to up their level for the bigger games as well, they're both up for a battle.

FranklyVulgar · 10th November 2009, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

Who has said they think he's shit?

look in the fletcher is world class thread. Pretty sure the word shit was used, or rubbish and average.

thoward · 10th November 2009, 12:21

Robbo (the poster) has given him an enormous amount of criticism.

amolbhatia100 · 10th November 2009, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoward

Robbo (the poster) has given him an enormous amount of criticism.

In the past..

Simon Adebesi · 10th November 2009, 12:35

From what I have seen nobody in the Fletcher is world class thread has said he is shit. The debate revolves around whether he is merely very good, or in fact one of the best players in his position in the world.

amolbhatia100 · 10th November 2009, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Adebesi

From what I have seen nobody in the Fletcher is world class thread has said he is shit. The debate revolves around whether he is merely very good, or in fact one of the best players in his position in the world.

See, if those are the two options I'd go for the former. Because Fletcher isn't one of the best in the world. He's nowhere near an Iniesta or Xavi for example. Or Fabregas at his best. But he is top class. He's in the tear below the top midfielders. We've got a player who really eventually should be in the top tier, or even at the top of the top tier.

VivaRonaldo7 · 10th November 2009, 12:42

Read this myself yesterday he seemed to get the majority spot on to be fair.

Simon Adebesi · 10th November 2009, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by amolbhatia100

See, if those are the two options I'd go for the former. Because Fletcher isn't one of the best in the world. He's nowhere near an Iniesta or Xavi for example. Or Fabregas at his best. But he is top class. He's in the tear below the top midfielders. We've got a player who really eventually should be in the top tier, or even at the top of the top tier.

For me those are the options. And I agree. Fletcher is a fantastic player but he isnt one of the best in the world in his position.

9th November 2009, 17:20	#1 (permalink)
quethenoo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Where the sun dont shine. Posts: 3,497	Fletcher in rated by pundit shocker! <a href="http://d.mediadakine.com/ck.php?n=ad232b97&cb=68007" target="_blank"><img src="http://d.mediadakine.com/avw.php?zoneid=81&cb=68007&n=ad232b97" border="0" alt="" /></a> BBC SPORT \| Football \| Premier League \| Lee Dixon's tactical view Page last updated at 14:00 GMT, Monday, 9 November 2009 E-mail this to a friend Printable version Lee Dixon's tactical view Chelsea's victory over Manchester United on Sunday was obviously a fantastic result for the Blues and leaves United five points adrift of the Premier League leaders. But United manager Sir Alex Ferguson will not be overly perturbed given the quality of his team's performance on the day. The United players would have been travelling home on the coach wondering how they lost, and Chelsea boss Carlo Ancelotti might reflect that his men got one over on the champions rather fortuitously. United got their tactics right and it was one of those games in which you don't necessarily get what you deserve. As the lone striker, Wayne Rooney did a great job of occupying the opposition centre-backs on his own and United stopped Chelsea's full-backs coming forward like we normally see. Branislav Ivanovic broke clear on the right a couple of times in the first half but, in general, I thought United's five-man midfield, changing to 4-3-3 when they got the ball, was spot on. 606: DEBATE To go to the Bridge and be the better team is good - I take heart from that cumbrian-mu-fan And in the middle of all that was Darren Fletcher who, when you look at the quality and strength of Chelsea's midfield diamond, performed heroics. In the first half Fletcher was everywhere and it seemed like his name was mentioned every five or 10 seconds, whether United had the ball or not. Having played so well, he'll be bitterly disappointed not to have emerged on the winning side, or at least with a point. Fletcher is so important to United because of his ability to break up opposition forays and turn defence into attack. When you're playing against strikers with the pace of Didier Drogba and Nicolas Anelka, what you don't want to do is give them space in behind you so United held a fairly deep line. Wes Brown and Jonny Evans, their centre-backs, retreated more or less to the edge of the box when Chelsea had the ball in their half so it was imperative to have someone sweeping up in front of the back four. In Fletcher and Michael Carrick, United had two players capable of doing that on Sunday and their importance was magnified by the proven potency of Chelsea's midfield. People have said Fletcher is more suited to the big games but I disagree - maybe when he has not played in the lesser games it's because Sir Alex is saving him for the bigger ones due to his value Lee Dixon Both players are great passers so after picking up lots of 'bits-and-pieces' balls and performing a sharp turn, their first thought is, 'Can I get the ball forward?'. It is vital for a team defending so deep to get moving up the pitch as quickly as possible. But that pass forward has to be accurate and it has to stick because if you're playing one up front away from home and can't hold onto the ball, it'll just keep coming back at you. And if you do that against a team of Chelsea's quality, eventually they will hurt you. The importance, therefore, shifts to Rooney and he did a fine job of keeping possession and enabling the likes of Ryan Giggs and Antonio Valencia to arrive in support. Chelsea were quite fearful of Rooney's pace so stood off him at times - but take nothing away from the way he led United's attack, creating openings for others and shooting when possible. Fletcher's all-round game has improved significantly, to the point where I find it difficult to find a single weaknesses. In the past you might have felt that Fletcher wouldn't have played when everyone else was fit. But now it's almost a case of picking the other eight because he is among two or three players who get into the team full stop. Darren Fletcher challenges Frank Lampard Fletcher produced a fine display but ended up on the losing side People have said he is more suited to the so-called big games but I disagree. Maybe sometimes when he has not played in the lesser games it's because Sir Alex is saving him for the bigger ones due to his value. Chelsea aside, I actually think he would get into most other top teams because he is a real nuisance to the opposition and has an ability to get you out of trouble time and again. At Stamford Bridge, he dropped into the back four to make headed clearances on countless occasions - you could call him a sweeper for all positions. I've not played against Fletcher in the modern game but he reminds me of Paul Scholes, even though they are quite different players from a stylistic perspective. When people think of big players they think of the flair guys like Cristiano Ronaldo, but you ask the players who have played week in week out against Manchester United and they will say Scholes. And it's the same with Fletcher. A lot of his work goes unnoticed and a lot of his qualities are not always bubbling over the top. But the key thing is that he is not unnoticed by his manager or team-mates and they are the ones who count. The one criticism I would have of United on Sunday was their lack of quality from set-pieces, especially as full-time approached. Chelsea didn't have a single corner - how many teams win a game without getting a corner at home? - whereas United had quite a few chances to put the ball in from corners and free-kicks but their service was poor. They had four corners in the last 10 minutes and I don't think they knocked in one decent ball. Two were taken by the young substitute Gabriel Obertan which baffled me. In the 84th minute a chance did fall to Valencia on the far side of the box from a Giggs corner but he shot wide. It's times like those that United miss Ronaldo - he probably would have scored from there. Lee Dixon was talking to BBC Sport's David Ornstein. I know some people on here dont rate dixon but i think the guy talks mostly sense so its good to see him acknowledging fletchers performance.

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9th November 2009, 17:22	#2 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind" Posts: 33,082	That's a very fair summary IMO.

9th November 2009, 17:25	#3 (permalink)
Simon Adebesi Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth. Posts: 4,574	Not that shocking, they were kissing his balls on MOTD2, people are starting to realise how good Fletcher is. Oh yes, this was written by Lee Dixon, the very same man I was talking about....

9th November 2009, 17:29	#5 (permalink)
FranklyVulgar First Team Sub Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: My name is FranklyVulgar, this is not my real name. Posts: 7,629	amazing how pundits who never ever even mentioned him are starting to come around to the fact that Darren Fletcher is a football genius yet their are still numpties on this board who still think he is an average footballer or shit even!

9th November 2009, 17:39	#7 (permalink)
EdWeatherall Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,422	They were giving him praise post-match on Sky as well But come off it, it's not as if he doesn't get praise, I'm sure you can find many an article claiming he was the reason we lost to Liverpool, or to Barcelona People know how important he really he is to our cause, he's in that group of being one of the first names on the teamsheet

9th November 2009, 18:06	#10 (permalink)
KGBhoy Youth Team Player Join Date: May 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 370	I read Dixon's tactical views all the time and quite enjoy them. He seems to know what he's talking about.

9th November 2009, 19:47	#11 (permalink)
Raven_Blade Attention Whoring Common Crow Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: You cant reason with stupidity. Posts: 25,076	Lee Dixon is spot on with his analysis there. Always nice to see Fletcher getting his deserved recognition as well. He continues to deliver on the potential that few of our supporters believed he had.

9th November 2009, 21:09	#13 (permalink)
Randall Flagg Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Co. Wexford Posts: 2,519	He has been getting loads of praise of loads of pundits over the last couple of years. Before that he wasn't because he was only a squad player.

10th November 2009, 08:08	#14 (permalink)
Sunny Jim First Team Sub Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warsaw...that's too far away from Edinburgh... Posts: 7,827	its very good. shocking.

10th November 2009, 08:51	#15 (permalink)
amolbhatia100 Has excellent taste in women Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: india Posts: 13,494	I actually thought that for the first hour or so Anderson and Carrick were our better midfielders. In Fletcher and Anderson I feel we have two midfielders who can give us the necessary bite and quality against any team, especially in a three man midfield. They both seem to up their level for the bigger games as well, they're both up for a battle.

10th November 2009, 12:21	#17 (permalink)
thoward First Team Regular Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The last time Liverpool won the league Federico Macheda hadn't been conceived Posts: 11,764	Robbo (the poster) has given him an enormous amount of criticism.

10th November 2009, 12:35	#19 (permalink)
Simon Adebesi Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth. Posts: 4,574	From what I have seen nobody in the Fletcher is world class thread has said he is shit. The debate revolves around whether he is merely very good, or in fact one of the best players in his position in the world.

10th November 2009, 12:42	#21 (permalink)
VivaRonaldo7 Attention seeker only tolerated because his gf has big baps Join Date: May 2008 Location: Chester Posts: 4,239	Read this myself yesterday he seemed to get the majority spot on to be fair.