George Cohen about Best, Beckham, Greaves and Ronaldo

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 09:29

Quote:

The Fulham and England legend on marking George Best, Greavsie's interest in satanism and Tarby's golfing exploits

Hi George, thanks for talking to Small Talk. How long have you been involved with Cancer Research UK and the Bobby Moore Fund Championship's charity 5-a-side football tournament?
Ever since Bobby's wife Stephanie started it 15 years ago now. They have loads of top events. The best one is the golf at Wentworth – everybody wants to play there. It's just a wonderful day. We get lots of showbiz players too.

Have you ever golfed with Brucie?
No, but I understand he's a very good player.

How about Tarby?
Jimmy Tarbuck, yes. He likes to play very aggressively, Jimmy. Golf brings that out. It's the competitive nature of the entertainment business.

Have you ever spotted any talent out there on the football pitch at the Bobby Moores?
Well… Er. It's hard to go to these things and look for talent. I mean, the top goalscorer this time around, he scored six – I think he toe-punted in five of them. But they're goals however you kick them in. They're all enthusiastic, they wanted to win. It even got a bit out of hand out there at one point. But that's the passion.

On your Wikipedia page you're described as Fulham's second-greatest ever player, behind Johnny Haynes. Is that all right with you?
I feel very comfortable with that. Haynes was without doubt one of this country's greatest ever footballers. I think if you were to draw up a list of all-time world players, he would be on it. He was an absolutely beautiful passer of a ball.

For people who didn't see him play, would you compare him to David Beckham perhaps?
No. Beckham wasn't in his class. Johnny Haynes was playing his crossfield passes with a wet 'T' ball. When you started out with a 'T' ball it was about 16 ounces. When it got wet it put on at least five ounces. But his timing was such he could manoeuvre the thing from one side of the pitch to the other.

George Best said you were the best right-back he ever played against. That must be nice to hear.
Well, yes. Again, you're talking about all-time greatest players.

How did you mark Bestie? Did you try to get close to him?
If you got close to him you could cut down the options he had to pass the ball. Then again he could easily turn or do something to trick you. You just had to make sure you understood what his body position was with the ball in relation to your body position. There were times where you'd think, OK you can have the ball there. But these great wingers, they all have the same thing – great balance. Peter Jones at Tottenham could go either way, either side of you. All these players – you can play against them for 89 minutes and 55 seconds and then they'll do something that costs you the game.

What do you think about the Cristiano Ronaldo comparison with George Best?
I don't think you can compare them. They're two tremendous players. Ronaldo does have that same ability to try things. He might try them and if they don't come off, 'OK, I'll do it next time.' He's got that attitude in his game that says 'I am a winner'. And he's got imagination. It's really refreshing because he's trying things on the pitch.

A famous saying among Fulham fans was that you were the most whole-hearted payer in the team, it was just a shame so many of your crosses ended up in the river Thames? Is that unfair?
Maybe not. But let me just say that I got down there more than anyone else.

You were a new kind of player in your time, a more attacking full-back than people had seen in this country. How did that come about?
We had a tremendous player at Fulham, Roy Bentley. And he suggested that we do this overlap. He said it's in the last third of the pitch where the real devastation is. And Bentley said to me you can go past your man and I'll be covering. He was always there. And that's what it was about, developing that understanding. So it was all Roy Bentley's idea.

Who would you pick to play at right back for England now?
Well, unfortunately, the incumbent has been injured for a long time. Gary Neville has won plenty of caps and has done very well. I hope he gets back in the team.

What about Micah Richards? Any good?
Well, yes. He's done quite well. He's a fit, strong boy. But for me he needs to be more aware. Positional play is very important at full-back. The problem with Micah Richards is I think he'll be a centre back and not a full-back. I think they've tried to push him too hard. It could have been more useful to spend time in the under-21s.

Many people say today's players are paid too much. You were involved in the players' strike that abolished the maximum wage. Are you responsible?
I was right in all that with Jimmy Hill at Fulham. At first Jimmy came back from meeting the Football League and said 'I think they'll agree to £50 a week', which was a lot more than what we were earning. Then a few days later they capitulated entirely.

Did you celebrate? Was there much cheering?
It was quite jubilant. It was mainly, 'Well, what shall we spend the money on?' Paying the mortgage off in most cases.

Did the money go up immediately?
No, we had to negotiate. There was a progression. It was great. And strange too. I remember my father was on £10 a week, a real pittance, for working a 48-hour week. I felt guilty telling him I was getting £20.

We know you like golf. But what was the last book you read?
It was Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out. It's a great book. I really enjoyed it.

Are you interested in Satanism generally?
No. Not really. But I do like Dennis Wheatley. I've read lots of his other books. I started collecting them, in fact. Jimmy Greaves has got the best collection. He told me he's got the whole Dennis Wheatley at home, hardback. The complete set.

Is Greavsie particularly interested in Satanism?
Not as far as I know. He just likes the books.

Interesting interview. Great to see neville rated so highly

Cling Bak · 25th September 2008, 11:47

The idea that Johnny Haynes is one of the all-time greats for me, is laughable. He only seemed to become so great when he died (I know everyone appreciates people more then).

ERICSAGOD · 25th September 2008, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

The idea that Johnny Haynes is one of the all-time greats for me, is laughable. He only seemed to become so great when he died (I know everyone appreciates people more then).

I wouldn't describe him as one of the ''all-time greats'', but he was much better than Beckham.

SmashedHombre · 25th September 2008, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERICSAGOD

I wouldn't describe him as one of the ''all-time greats'', but he was much better than Beckham.

Well, having never seen him play I can't really comment. However if he was 'much better' than Beckham, he would surely have to be close to being an all time great as Beckham was a fantastic player.

Cling Bak · 25th September 2008, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERICSAGOD

I wouldn't describe him as one of the ''all-time greats'', but he was much better than Beckham.

Arguable. He didn't win as many England caps and if ever there is a poll or TV show about England's greatest team/players, why are Beckham and Matthews always in there (for right-midfield or otherwise) and not Haynes?

Haynes played for Fulham and a lot of time in the second tier of English football, Beckham played for Manchester United and Real Madrid. To claim that Beckham isn't in the same class is an insult.

Denis' cuff · 25th September 2008, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

Arguable. He didn't win as many England caps and if ever there is a poll or TV show about England's greatest team/players, why are Beckham and Matthews always in there (for right-midfield or otherwise) and not Haynes?

Haynes played for Fulham and a lot of time in the second tier of English football, Beckham played for Manchester United and Real Madrid. To claim that Beckham isn't in the same class is an insult.

answer: bling - and the fact that he's a current player

Haynes was very stylish but not as consistently influential as some make out and certainly not at the highest level. He also played for a London club, which boosts the hype. Difficult to compare but I wouldn't call either "all-time greats" but both damn good players.

Cling Bak · 25th September 2008, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis' cuff

answer: bling - and the fact that he's a current player

Haynes was very stylish but not as consistently influential as some make out and certainly not at the highest level. He also played for a London club, which boosts the hype. Difficult to compare but I wouldn't call either "all-time greats" but both damn good players.

Very fair points. I wouldn't call Beckham an all-time great either, he's up there with the best of his generation, but not near the top end of an all-time list.

I think Beckham deserves credit and acknowledgement as an England great though, hence why I believe he and Matthews (an old school player, which is why I noted him since people often believe the old greats are forgotten and he rarely is) were given credit and Haynes wasn't. For some reason you get the odd journo or ex player - like Cohen - who believes Haynes is one of the greatest.

The football being heavier always does my head in as well! The full-backs were also a lot crapper back then as well, deal with it!

topper · 25th September 2008, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

Arguable. He didn't win as many England caps and if ever there is a poll or TV show about England's greatest team/players, why are Beckham and Matthews always in there (for right-midfield or otherwise) and not Haynes?

Haynes played for Fulham and a lot of time in the second tier of English football, Beckham played for Manchester United and Real Madrid. To claim that Beckham isn't in the same class is an insult.

it isn´t its a fact

Sonny Feehan · 25th September 2008, 17:54

I think Johnny Haynes is getting a bit short changed on here. He played over 50 games for England in the days when international caps were not that easy to come by and he was the first player to earn 100 pounds a week. Comparisons with Beckham, as with other players of different generations, are difficult. In the fifties there was no such position as a right sided midfielder just as today there is no inside forward position. Both were great cross field passers but I do think Haynes might have the edge in overall ability.

EricaNo7 · 25th September 2008, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

Very fair points. I wouldn't call Beckham an all-time great either, he's up there with the best of his generation, but not near the top end of an all-time list.

I think Beckham deserves credit and acknowledgement as an England great though, hence why I believe he and Matthews (an old school player, which is why I noted him since people often believe the old greats are forgotten and he rarely is) were given credit and Haynes wasn't. For some reason you get the odd journo or ex player - like Cohen - who believes Haynes is one of the greatest.

The football being heavier always does my head in as well! The full-backs were also a lot crapper back then as well, deal with it!

why?

Fitzjames · 25th September 2008, 20:29

johnny Haynes was allegedly Englands first £100 a week player after teh maximum wage was scrapped. Tommy Trinder, Fulhams chairman, "paid" Haynes £100 a week as a publicity stunt........some say Haynes never actually got it.
While its true to say that London teams get a kinda "hype", Fulham in the early 1960s were not exactly hyped......they were always a struggling side always verging on relegation.
The fact is that Haynes did have 50 caps from a struggling team......and was by all contempory accounts a great player.

Interesting though that Cohen talks about how to play George Best. I suppose Cohen would have played against Best more often than most full backs. And I think full backs DID learn the art of how to mark top wingers by playing against them and "reading" them. Although its a bit odd that Cohen picks on Spurs winger "Peter (sic) Jones"...............Surely CLIFF JONES.

But by George Bests own accounts of full backs.......and yes I take the point that nobody can believe a word George Best ever said.......the only full backs who could read him were Shay Brennan and Tony Dunne in practice games.

ERICSAGOD · 25th September 2008, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

Haynes played for Fulham and a lot of time in the second tier of English football, Beckham played for Manchester United and Real Madrid.
To claim that Beckham isn't in the same class is an insult.

Well he'll have to get used to it, I've seen players far better than Beckham.

John White of Spurs and Jimmy McIlroy of Burnley to name but two.

hotshot2004 · 25th September 2008, 23:32

i ahve never seen this guy play, but couple people reckon he could cross the ball better than beckham, i can't comment, it was me i would pick beckham anytime, anyday.

Mr. MUJAC · 26th September 2008, 10:07

So let me get this straight........

An England international who Matt Busby once tried to buy....who won the World Cup......and actually played with Haynes.....is wrong!

But most posters on this cafe who have never seen Haynes play and never played at that level criticise what Cohen is saying?

Right!

Cling Bak · 26th September 2008, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaNo7

why?

Because whilst I realise the football and boots might be heavier, I don't think the overall quality of the players were as good. There are many things to take into account, I really don't think this should be something used heavily in a players favour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. MUJAC

So let me get this straight........

An England international who Matt Busby once tried to buy....who won the World Cup......and actually played with Haynes.....is wrong!

But most posters on this cafe who have never seen Haynes play and never played at that level criticise what Cohen is saying?

Right!

Yes.

Pele won the World Cup 3 times, would you listen and believe all the crap he has to say? No. He's full of shit most of the time. Likewise, if Beckham - 6 time Premier League champion, Champions League winner, over 100 England caps, 50-60 of which were as captain - says that Gary Neville is a better defender than Franz Beckenbauer, it really doesn't mean we should assume it's gospel because of his playing career.

I don't care what Cohen's won or whose tried to sign him, it doesn't make his opinion off the field automatically correct. Nor am I saying my opinion is correct, but it's only my opinion.

EricaNo7 · 26th September 2008, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cling Bak

Because whilst I realise the football and boots might be heavier, I don't think the overall quality of the players were as good. There are many things to take into account, I really don't think this should be something used heavily in a players favour.

Yes.

Pele won the World Cup 3 times, would you listen and believe all the crap he has to say? No. He's full of shit most of the time. Likewise, if Beckham - 6 time Premier League champion, Champions League winner, over 100 England caps, 50-60 of which were as captain - says that Gary Neville is a better defender than Franz Beckenbauer, it really doesn't mean we should assume it's gospel because of his playing career.

I don't care what Cohen's won or whose tried to sign him, it doesn't make his opinion off the field automatically correct. Nor am I saying my opinion is correct, but it's only my opinion.

i think you'll find that practically everything is much better suited to professionals now than it was all those aeons ago.
nutrition, medicine, strips, playing conditions.....
surely it must be easier now?

vijay · 26th September 2008, 20:22

what did he say about Hargreaves then?

ralphie88 · 27th September 2008, 01:22

George Cohen - the man - is a cunt unfortunately.

MadDogg · 27th September 2008, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaNo7

i think you'll find that practically everything is much better suited to professionals now than it was all those aeons ago.
nutrition, medicine, strips, playing conditions.....
surely it must be easier now?

Depends on what you mean by easier. Yes, it's easier to do actual bits of skill and particular things with the ball. However, the opposition team will also be much more professional and better prepared to stop you, so being able to use those skills effectively is harder. All in all it'd pretty much even out.

25th September 2008, 11:47	#2 (permalink)
Cling Bak Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,434	The idea that Johnny Haynes is one of the all-time greats for me, is laughable. He only seemed to become so great when he died (I know everyone appreciates people more then).

25th September 2008, 17:54	#9 (permalink)
Sonny Feehan Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,131	I think Johnny Haynes is getting a bit short changed on here. He played over 50 games for England in the days when international caps were not that easy to come by and he was the first player to earn 100 pounds a week. Comparisons with Beckham, as with other players of different generations, are difficult. In the fifties there was no such position as a right sided midfielder just as today there is no inside forward position. Both were great cross field passers but I do think Haynes might have the edge in overall ability.

25th September 2008, 20:29	#11 (permalink)
Fitzjames Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Co Armagh Ireland Posts: 1,009	johnny Haynes was allegedly Englands first £100 a week player after teh maximum wage was scrapped. Tommy Trinder, Fulhams chairman, "paid" Haynes £100 a week as a publicity stunt........some say Haynes never actually got it. While its true to say that London teams get a kinda "hype", Fulham in the early 1960s were not exactly hyped......they were always a struggling side always verging on relegation. The fact is that Haynes did have 50 caps from a struggling team......and was by all contempory accounts a great player. Interesting though that Cohen talks about how to play George Best. I suppose Cohen would have played against Best more often than most full backs. And I think full backs DID learn the art of how to mark top wingers by playing against them and "reading" them. Although its a bit odd that Cohen picks on Spurs winger "Peter (sic) Jones"...............Surely CLIFF JONES. But by George Bests own accounts of full backs.......and yes I take the point that nobody can believe a word George Best ever said.......the only full backs who could read him were Shay Brennan and Tony Dunne in practice games.

25th September 2008, 23:32	#13 (permalink)
hotshot2004 Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Promise Land Posts: 1,667	i ahve never seen this guy play, but couple people reckon he could cross the ball better than beckham, i can't comment, it was me i would pick beckham anytime, anyday.

26th September 2008, 10:07	#14 (permalink)
Mr. MUJAC Talent spotter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Louis Rocca started it all... Posts: 2,343	So let me get this straight........ An England international who Matt Busby once tried to buy....who won the World Cup......and actually played with Haynes.....is wrong! But most posters on this cafe who have never seen Haynes play and never played at that level criticise what Cohen is saying? Right!

26th September 2008, 20:22	#17 (permalink)
vijay Im rude and disprespectful to the ladies of the forum,though Im happy to cruise Jason and Suresh Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Entertainment Fourm: Winding up the Gaming Gimps Posts: 13,488	what did he say about Hargreaves then?

27th September 2008, 01:22	#18 (permalink)
ralphie88 Bitterer than a bitter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Stretford Posts: 7,190	George Cohen - the man - is a cunt unfortunately.