Green and Gold till the club is Sold!

MiamiSpartan · 19th July 2010, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

I am actually genuinely interested in your answer

There is no sarcasm meant in that post - it is completely serious.

But my point was that you took away the sentences preceding that one, which was in reference to the idea that if the Glazers go, the next person might be worse. As if we'd just accept that worse alternative because the goal was only to get rid of the Glazers. We can fight to get rid of the Glazers. If someone comes in that is worse, we can fight them, as well. It's not just about the Glazers specifically.

MiamiSpartan · 19th July 2010, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

So what you were trying to say then is that you cannot believe that someone can advocate acceptance of 'something'? I'd assume then that you can fully understand the the advocation of acceptance of 'something else'? Shit, man, had i have known you were being that vague and pointless then i'd never have bothered replying to you; that's the limpest, most non-committal bollocks i've ever heard!

As thick as I think you are, I still know that you understand the point. This was fun when we were actually debating the topic at hand, but you've given up talking about anything of substance and now you're just being boring.

ciderman9000000 · 19th July 2010, 23:29

I tire of you too. Leave me now.

Rood · 20th July 2010, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

But my point was that you took away the sentences preceding that one, which was in reference to the idea that if the Glazers go, the next person might be worse. As if we'd just accept that worse alternative because the goal was only to get rid of the Glazers. We can fight to get rid of the Glazers. If someone comes in that is worse, we can fight them, as well. It's not just about the Glazers specifically.

All this fighting sounds like great fun but when does it all end?

In any case there really isn't any viable alternative at the moment anyway which is exactly why it all seems like a bit of a waste of time to me - only 1 party has said they are interested in taking over from the Glazers and they havent raised the money nor worked out how exactly they want to do it yet.

Crerand Legend · 20th July 2010, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

All this fighting sounds like great fun but when does it all end?

In any case there really isn't any viable alternative at the moment anyway which is exactly why it all seems like a bit of a waste of time to me - only 1 party has said they are interested in taking over from the Glazers and they havent raised the money nor worked out how exactly they want to do it yet.

Rood my old mate you are right that there is no alternative to the Glazers at the minute but it is because of their stubborn attitude to sell even though they must realise that the club and their supporters are suffering because they cant afford us.
They need to do the honourable like the Liverpool owners and put the club on the market. They can leave with cash in their pockets

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

All this fighting sounds like great fun but when does it all end?

In any case there really isn't any viable alternative at the moment anyway which is exactly why it all seems like a bit of a waste of time to me - only 1 party has said they are interested in taking over from the Glazers and they havent raised the money nor worked out how exactly they want to do it yet.

So we should only oppose them when there's a bid on the table? You're asking people to hide their feelings? I'd say that this is the time to be even more vocal. Let them see that we aren't going away just because a bid wasn't made.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

So we should only oppose them when there's a bid on the table? You're asking people to hide their feelings? I'd say that this is the time to be even more vocal. Let them see that we aren't going away just because a bid wasn't made.

It's not happening, mate, the Glazers aren't interested in your silly protests.

Shane B · 20th July 2010, 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

The 90's g&g shirt was my third favourite, after the black Sharp Viewcam one and the '95 blue and white vertical striped one. I'd love for United release a re-designed g&g third kit; can't see it happening though

That's a great breakdown of your favourite shirts...

Thanks for that.

Shane B · 20th July 2010, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

No i'm not. There are a few self-declared 'real United fans' having a go at people who want United to be successful on the pitch and value that success. That's all that's happening here; a few self-righteous dick-heads taking the opportunity to top-red everyone out by puffing their chests out and declaring how little they care about footballing success. Fuck off, you nobs. Who's fred and his mates to decide who's a proper United fan and who isn't? Eat shit.

Heh.. I'd like to intervene to anyone from an opposing team forum who is reading this.

I fully understand that jokers like this give you comedy value, however please accept him with a pinch of salt and be aware... his whole criteria of football knowledge comes from this site.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 07:15

I'd too like to intervene for the benefit of Charles Darwin if you're reading this.

Pay no attention to this joker, your theory still stands.

Transfer United Till I Die · 20th July 2010, 07:41

Pwoppa nawty.

CasaStreets · 20th July 2010, 08:10

Never really got the feeling that fred, shane and co. have been trying to assert who is a top red and who isn't. Maybe I missed something a couple pages back? They normally seem like they are just expressing their opinions and garnering support and understanding for their cause. Anyways, if you've interpreted this as an agressive action, so be it.

To be honest, there is just such a fundementally different perspective on how each side values the club that there is little chance of either side conceding ground to the other. You are literally defining the importance of the club in different terms, and so you are almost viewing it as two seperate entities. One side's main concern is that they want to see the club win and succed, the other side's main concern is that they want to see the club healthy in the long term. Both sides value each others' concerns, but have just rearranged their priorities. Now that I am done stating the obvious, carry on...

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasaStreets

Never really got the feeling that fred, shane and co. have been trying to assert who is a top red and who isn't. Maybe I missed something a couple pages back? They normally seem like they are just expressing their opinions and garnering support and understanding for their cause. Anyways, if you've interpreted this as an agressive action, so be it.

To be honest, there is just such a fundementally different perspective on how each side values the club that there is little chance of either side conceding ground to the other. You are literally defining the importance of the club in different terms, and so you are almost viewing it as two seperate entities. One side's main concern is that they want to see the club win and succed, the other side's main concern is that they want to see the club healthy in the long term. Both sides value each others' concerns, but have just rearranged their priorities. Now that I am done stating the obvious, carry on...

It's posts like the following, directed at myself after asking him if he'd really like to see us relegated if it meant that the Glazers would sell the club, that give me the impression that fred is trying to assert himself as being a topper-red than those who do not share his opinions...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred

Yes absolutely.

Unlike you, I dont support United because I crave trophies and success. In fact, given the events of the last 20 years, I wish we'd never had half the success we have had.

I'd give up every one of the trophies we'd won to take us back to a club where the fans were widely respected as the most passionate supporters in the country.

Now the club is full of glory hunting plebs who only care about trophies. They didnt give a fuck before the trophies came, and they wont give a fuck once the trophies stop coming in. They follow United because its cool, not because they have one iota of a clue what being a United fan is about.

The sooner we can get rid of them people, the better.

And you, you're the epitomy of the type of fan I am talking about. The lowest of the low. Part of me wants United to fail just so bandwagon jumpers like you will fuck off once and for all!

It's just self-righteous bullshit. Obviously fred gets to decide who deserves to support United based upon what little he knows of everyone on here. As we all know, fred is the yardstick by which any others claiming to be fans are measured, and those who do not agree with his views are nothing but charlatans masquerading as United fans in order to appear 'cool'; but there's really no need for him to be so nasty about it all.

Plan M · 20th July 2010, 09:49

I agree with Fred.

Rood · 20th July 2010, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasaStreets

To be honest, there is just such a fundementally different perspective on how each side values the club that there is little chance of either side conceding ground to the other. You are literally defining the importance of the club in different terms, and so you are almost viewing it as two seperate entities. One side's main concern is that they want to see the club win and succed, the other side's main concern is that they want to see the club healthy in the long term. Both sides value each others' concerns, but have just rearranged their priorities. Now that I am done stating the obvious, carry on...

I don't agree with that at all - this is the just the way 'one side' (mostly Fred on his own to be honest) like to portray it. I don't think there is anyone on here for whom the long term health of the club is not the number one priority, likewise there will be very few, if any, who do not seek success - whether they like to admit it or not, all football fans want their team to win but obviously not at the expense of the health of the club itself.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

I don't agree with that at all - this is the just the way 'one side' (mostly Fred on his own to be honest) like to portray it. I don't think there is anyone on here for whom the long term health of the club is not the number one priority, likewise there will be very few, if any, who do not seek success - whether they like to admit it or not, all football fans want their team to win but obviously not at the expense of the health of the club itself.

Exactly, Rood. Except fred prefers to think of it as being proper fans (himself and those who agree with him) against glory-hunters (anyone who doesn't agree with him). It's the old, 'You're not a real United fan if you don't oppose the Glazers!' line that MUST and the like have been bullying everyone with for years.

'Share our views or we'll call you names!'

Big scary threat. Thing is though, fred doesn't get to decide who the proper fans are and what proper fans should be thinking, of course he fucking doesn't, he just likes to think that he does. Fred cannot comprehend other people's philosophies on United, football or life in general, and he covers up this personality defect by convincing himself that, because he cannot himself comprehend how anyone could possibly think any differently to him, then everyone who claims to think differently must be fakers, charlatans, glory-supporters, plastic-fans etc. They can't be real fans because in fred's incomprehending little mind real fans only think exactly like he does. Dumb fuck.

CasaStreets · 20th July 2010, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

It's just self-righteous bullshit. Obviously fred gets to decide who deserves to support United based upon what little he knows of everyone on here. As we all know, fred is the yardstick by which any others claiming to be fans are measured, and those who do not agree with his views are nothing but charlatans masquerading as United fans in order to appear 'cool'; but there's really no need for him to be so nasty about it all.

Fred's post you quoted is cringeworthy. It suggests that their are two ways a modern football club can be

1) Mediocre with great local support or
2) Successful with worldwide support and glory hunters

This approach completely ignores option 3, successfull with worldwide support and great local support.

Fred, the blame for what has happened does not stand with the club's success, its worldwide support, or glory hunters. It stands with the owners who have chosen to outprice local support by taking advantage of the increased prices that traveling fans are willing to pay to see one off matches.

Cidermanm in a way, that post seems a bit out of context for fred (a one off, if you will). His anger normally seems more directed towards the owners (fair enough, IMO) than club or gloryhunters, but maybe I am wrong. It would be hard to not be angry if the owners had outpriced half or more of the friends you had been to matches with your entire life. Hope fred does draw the distinction between owner's decisions and success - I suspect he does, until you rile him up enough at least

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

I don't agree with that at all - this is the just the way 'one side' (mostly Fred on his own to be honest) like to portray it. I don't think there is anyone on here for whom the long term health of the club is not the number one priority, likewise there will be very few, if any, who do not seek success - whether they like to admit it or not, all football fans want their team to win but obviously not at the expense of the health of the club itself.

Yeah, I had trouble articulating what I was trying to get at. So I just posted it, whatever. I was trying to establish that people have different priorities and assign different values to them. This naturally leads people to have a different approach to what the club means to them - and what they value about the club.

Rood · 20th July 2010, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crerand Legend

Rood my old mate you are right that there is no alternative to the Glazers at the minute but it is because of their stubborn attitude to sell even though they must realise that the club and their supporters are suffering because they cant afford us.
They need to do the honourable like the Liverpool owners and put the club on the market. They can leave with cash in their pockets

The Scouse owners have not done anything honourable! They are being forced to sell the club because their business plan has failed - the Glazers of course have no such issues which is why they dont want to and have no need to sell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

So we should only oppose them when there's a bid on the table? You're asking people to hide their feelings? I'd say that this is the time to be even more vocal. Let them see that we aren't going away just because a bid wasn't made.

No and no - you are missing my point.
If people want to protest that is fine by me, I am not going to try and stop them - in fact if you look back in this thread you will see that I have supported certain aspects of the G&G campaign because it has improved the atmosphere at OT.
However, I take issues when things are taken to the next level and people start to boycott. I believe this is counterproductive to the collective aims of all fans and I think the logic that leads people to boycott is flawed.

This basically brings me back to my original question to you which you never answered: what exactly are you fighting for?
I think many people have lost sight of the big picture and are just blinded by propoganda fueled hatred.

UnitedRoadRed · 20th July 2010, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

The Scouse owners have not done anything honourable! They are being forced to sell the club because their business plan has failed - the Glazers of course have no such issues which is why they dont want to and have no need to sell.

No and no - you are missing my point.
If people want to protest that is fine by me, I am not going to try and stop them - in fact if you look back in this thread you will see that I have supported certain aspects of the G&G campaign because it has improved the atmosphere at OT.
However, I take issues when things are taken to the next level and people start to boycott. I believe this is counterproductive to the collective aims of all fans and I think the logic that leads people to boycott is flawed.

This basically brings me back to my original question to you which you never answered: what exactly are you fighting for?
I think many people have lost sight of the big picture and are just blinded by propoganda fueled hatred.

The Glazers have driven many fans out of Old Trafford. Isn't the desire to reciprocate sufficient?

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

No and no - you are missing my point.
If people want to protest that is fine by me, I am not going to try and stop them - in fact if you look back in this thread you will see that I have supported certain aspects of the G&G campaign because it has improved the atmosphere at OT.
However, I take issues when things are taken to the next level and people start to boycott. I believe this is counterproductive to the collective aims of all fans and I think the logic that leads people to boycott is flawed.

This basically brings me back to my original question to you which you never answered: what exactly are you fighting for?
I think many people have lost sight of the big picture and are just blinded by propoganda fueled hatred.

No one has been talking about boycotts, at least not in the last few pages of this thread. I'm not sure why you even bring that up in this discussion?

I didn't answer that question, because I knew that anything I say you'll claim is just being force fed the MUST propaganda. That's already what you're getting at, but in doing so you make assumptions about people without knowing shit about them. I could go down the list of various ideals, such as supporter ownership, a club without debt, etc., but I'm sure you have your arguments all lined up about the propaganda this, and MUST that. If it makes you feel better, have at it. I really see no point in rehashing the same arguments that have been made a thousand times in this thread already.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

No one has been talking about boycotts, at least not in the last few pages of this thread. I'm not sure why you even bring that up in this discussion?

I think we all assumed you were talking about boycotts when you mentioned 'fighting' the Glazers. What else could you have meant?

Dr. Dwayne · 20th July 2010, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

I think we all assumed you were talking about boycotts when you mentioned 'fighting' the Glazers. What else could you have meant?

Straight fisticuffs, beyatch. Old school set trippin'. Word.

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

I think we all assumed you were talking about boycotts when you mentioned 'fighting' the Glazers. What else could you have meant?

Uhh, yeah, because there is no other way to oppose the Glazers than to boycott games.

I have never called for a boycott of games. Such a call would be pretty hollow coming from someone who doesn't have the option to go to games anyway.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

Uhh, yeah, because there is no other way to oppose the Glazers than to boycott games.

I have never called for a boycott of games. Such a call would be pretty hollow coming from someone who doesn't have the option to go to games anyway.

Uhh, yeah, so, like, what are the other options?

Crumpsall Red · 20th July 2010, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

The Scouse owners have not done anything honourable! They are being forced to sell the club because their business plan has failed - the Glazers of course have no such issues which is why they dont want to and have no need to sell.

No and no - you are missing my point.
If people want to protest that is fine by me, I am not going to try and stop them - in fact if you look back in this thread you will see that I have supported certain aspects of the G&G campaign because it has improved the atmosphere at OT.
However, I take issues when things are taken to the next level and people start to boycott. I believe this is counterproductive to the collective aims of all fans and I think the logic that leads people to boycott is flawed.

This basically brings me back to my original question to you which you never answered: what exactly are you fighting for?
I think many people have lost sight of the big picture and are just blinded by propoganda fueled hatred.

What do you see as the collective aim of all fans?
What is the big picture we've lost sight of?

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

Uhh, yeah, so, like, what are the other options?

If you don't know, then you're even dumber than you appear on here.

It's another day, and you're still boring the fuck out of me.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

If you don't know, then you're even dumber than you appear on here.

It's another day, and you're still boring the fuck out of me.

I don't know, just indulge me. Apart from boycotting the Glazers' products, how can we fight them?

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

I don't know, just indulge me. Apart from boycotting the Glazers' products, how can we fight them?

Water balloons.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

Water balloons.

Right, so in the following vague and ambiguous statement...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

If you don't like something, better to just accept it and move on rather than fight for what you believe in? Jesus Christ, I can't believe people advocate that.

What you were actually trying to say was that, not only do you acknowledge that there are situations in which acceptance would be the prefered choice, but also that, specific to the case at hand, you yourself would not even advocate boycotts as a method of fighting, rather, you would only advocate 'fighting' the Glazers using an as yet unspecified method that is so far seemingly only known to yourself?

Just to re-cap then, Miami, what the fuck are you talking about?

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

Right, so in the following vague and ambiguous statement...

What you were actually trying to say was that, not only do you acknowledge that there are situations in which acceptance would be the prefered choice, but also that, specific to the case at hand, you yourself would not even advocate boycotts as a method of fighting, rather, you would only advocate 'fighting' the Glazers using an as yet unspecified method that is so far seemingly only known to yourself?

Just to re-cap then, Miami, what the fuck are you talking about?

Whatever your twisted mind wants to read into it. I'm not going to get sucked into your petty games where you take things out of context and lose the entire discussion in the process. I got bored of that yesterday, and I'm still bored of it. You, on the other hand, said to me yesterday, "I tire of you too. Leave me now." And then here you are back again today picking a fight with me after I responded to someone else.

ciderman9000000 · 20th July 2010, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

Whatever your twisted mind wants to read into it. I'm not going to get sucked into your petty games where you take things out of context and lose the entire discussion in the process. I got bored of that yesterday, and I'm still bored of it. You, on the other hand, said to me yesterday, "I tire of you too. Leave me now." And then here you are back again today picking a fight with me after I responded to someone else.

No, don't mind me. I tired of you yesterday because i needed to sleep is all. What you said was just a great example of the kind of empty-headed, pointless, impotent war-cry that all too often is given on here in order to make the author seem passionate and spirited whilst at the same time making an attempt at belittling those who prefer a more thoughtful or passive approach when analysing the situation. Under scrutiny though your statement meant absolutely nothing, and in trying to explain it you've been backed into the untenable position of weakly claiming that: though you cannot believe anyone could advocate acceptence of 'something' that they do not like (in this case, the Glazers), that one should always fight for what they believe in, you do not actually advocate boycotts, which happen to be the only method available of realisticaly fighting against the Glazer ownership. The contradiction is glaring, which is why i addressed it in my original responding post; you say you are bored, but had you just admitted that you were talking shit in the first place we could have just left it at that. There's enough bullshit in this thread, no need to add to it, you know?

MiamiSpartan · 20th July 2010, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

No, don't mind me. I tired of you yesterday because i needed to sleep is all. What you said was just a great example of the kind of empty-headed, pointless, impotent war-cry that all too often is given on here in order to make the author seem passionate and spirited whilst at the same time making an attempt at belittling those who prefer a more thoughtful or passive approach when analysing the situation. Under scrutiny though your statement meant absolutely nothing, and in trying to explain it you've been backed into the untenable position of weakly claiming that: though you cannot believe anyone could advocate acceptence of 'something' that they do not like (in this case, the Glazers), that one should always fight for what they believe in, you do not actually advocate boycotts, which happen to be the only method available of realisticaly fighting against the Glazer ownership. The contradiction is glaring, which is why i addressed it in my original responding post; you say you are bored, but had you just admitted that you were talking shit in the first place we could have just left it at that. There's enough bullshit in this thread, no need to add to it, you know?

If that's what helps you sleep at night, go with it.

There is nothing contradictory about what I said. I don't advocate the boycotts because as a non-match goer, I don't feel I'm in a position to encourage people to give up their tickets. That is far too sacred of an experience for many. Also, for as major of a commitment as that is, I don't think it will have much impact. I don't think there are 60,000-70,000 people willing to boycott at this point (and 10-20,000 isn't going to have much impact). So I favor continued grass roots efforts. Keep the momentum up, keep talking about it, keep the word out there that the lack of a bid does not equal an end to the Glazer opposition. If this cause is something that one believes in, then no, they should not just give up on it.

But keep up with your straw man arguments, in the hopes that someone almost as thick as you will pop on by and read only the current page and buy into your repeated misrepresentations of what's been said.

peterstorey · 21st July 2010, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciderman9000000

What you said was just a great example of the kind of empty-headed, pointless, impotent war-cry that all too often is given on here in order to make the author seem passionate and spirited whilst at the same time making an attempt at belittling those who prefer a more thoughtful or passive approach when analysing the situation.

Fucking hell, 20 odd years ago there was a war going on in Northern Ireland and apartheid in South Africa. All you want to do is get rid of a few cunts running a football club.

Rood · 21st July 2010, 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan

No one has been talking about boycotts, at least not in the last few pages of this thread. I'm not sure why you even bring that up in this discussion?

I didn't answer that question, because I knew that anything I say you'll claim is just being force fed the MUST propaganda. That's already what you're getting at, but in doing so you make assumptions about people without knowing shit about them. I could go down the list of various ideals, such as supporter ownership, a club without debt, etc., but I'm sure you have your arguments all lined up about the propaganda this, and MUST that. If it makes you feel better, have at it. I really see no point in rehashing the same arguments that have been made a thousand times in this thread already.

Well like Cider, when you started talking about fighting and comparing the situation to a World War, I assumed you were talking about a bit more than having a cup of tea with a few mates and spreading the word. Your subsequent posts seem to suggest not in which case I am quite confused as to what exactly you are on about.

Anyway it seems you prefer to avoid having a discussion with me so I guess we will leave it there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpsall Red

What do you see as the collective aim of all fans?
What is the big picture we've lost sight of?

I actually wanted to say all 'matchgoing' fans because I was getting across the point about things like how we all want an improvement in atmosphere and boycotting is just going to make it worse etc. You just have to look at the boycott from 2005 to see the negative effect it had for all fans of Manchester United - as far as I am concerned it was a mistake back then and it is still a mistake now.

The big picture is explained in more details than you can possible want here - enjoy !
United, the universe and everything ...

Transfer United Till I Die · 21st July 2010, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

Fucking hell, 20 odd years ago there was a war going on in Northern Ireland and apartheid in South Africa. All you want to do is get rid of a few cunts running a football club.

I think there are quite a few who's perspective on their "fight" has been well and truly lost.

Crumpsall Red · 21st July 2010, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

Well like Cider, when you started talking about fighting and comparing the situation to a World War, I assumed you were talking about a bit more than having a cup of tea with a few mates and spreading the word. Your subsequent posts seem to suggest not in which case I am quite confused as to what exactly you are on about.

Anyway it seems you prefer to avoid having a discussion with me so I guess we will leave it there.

I actually wanted to say all 'matchgoing' fans because I was getting across the point about things like how we all want an improvement in atmosphere and boycotting is just going to make it worse etc. You just have to look at the boycott from 2005 to see the negative effect it had for all fans of Manchester United - as far as I am concerned it was a mistake back then and it is still a mistake now.

The big picture is explained in more details than you can possible want here - enjoy !
United, the universe and everything ...

I think the reason that this thread is over 4000 posts long is that there is no collective aim of all matchgoing fans. Clearly we all have different values.

ciderman9000000 · 21st July 2010, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpsall Red

I think the reason that this thread is over 4000 posts long is that there is no collective aim of all matchgoing fans. Clearly we all have different values.

Agreed.

Rood · 21st July 2010, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpsall Red

I think the reason that this thread is over 4000 posts long is that there is no collective aim of all matchgoing fans. Clearly we all have different values.

Well my point is, regardless of our views of the current owners, that there are collective aims that we can all agree on (getting rid of ACS, improving atmosphere, distribution of away/cup ticket etc) - but this type of issues are ignored because the fan groups that I believe should be dealing with these things on behalf of us all are too busy witchhunting.

When the G+G campaign first came about, there was a message about forgetting differences in opinion over ownership issues and uniting the fanbase - it was a good message but it got lost somewhere along the way and it went back to business as usual with the divisions as apparent as ever before.

Ish84045 · 21st July 2010, 12:01

Sorry, started a thread on the topic.

Why I will never forgive SAF - Daniel Harris

fredthered · 21st July 2010, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rood

Well my point is, regardless of our views of the current owners, that there are collective aims that we can all agree on (getting rid of ACS, improving atmosphere, distribution of away/cup ticket etc) - but this type of issues are ignored because the fan groups that I believe should be dealing with these things on behalf of us all are too busy witchhunting.

When the G+G campaign first came about, there was a message about forgetting differences in opinion over ownership issues and uniting the fanbase - it was a good message but it got lost somewhere along the way and it went back to business as usual with the divisions as apparent as ever before.

So getting rid of the ACS, getting a happier atmosphere and getting cup final tickets is more important than removing owners who have cost, and will continue to cost the club millions (heading into billions if they carry on ) in debt repayments which serve no purpose other than to make them richer.

I think you need to get your priorities right here matey...

The thing affecting the club more than anything else is the debts, not whether you happen to enjoy a good day out at OT.

I couldnt give a fuck if you get a cup final ticket or not, I coudln't give a fuck if you have to pay for carling cup tickets. I care that the club I support is paying over £50 million to the banks every single season for absolutely no reason whatsoever...

What you like or don't like comes way way way down the scale of what is important to MUFC in the long run.

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19th July 2010, 23:29	#4003 (permalink)
ciderman9000000 Off his rocker Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Manchester City Posts: 20,398	I tire of you too. Leave me now.

20th July 2010, 07:15	#4010 (permalink)
ciderman9000000 Off his rocker Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Manchester City Posts: 20,398	I'd too like to intervene for the benefit of Charles Darwin if you're reading this. Pay no attention to this joker, your theory still stands.

20th July 2010, 07:41	#4011 (permalink)
Transfer United Till I Die I am totally in the know, honest Join Date: May 2006 Location: pessimismium Posts: 7,651	Pwoppa nawty.

20th July 2010, 08:10	#4012 (permalink)
CasaStreets Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Don't taze me, bro Posts: 1,034	Never really got the feeling that fred, shane and co. have been trying to assert who is a top red and who isn't. Maybe I missed something a couple pages back? They normally seem like they are just expressing their opinions and garnering support and understanding for their cause. Anyways, if you've interpreted this as an agressive action, so be it. To be honest, there is just such a fundementally different perspective on how each side values the club that there is little chance of either side conceding ground to the other. You are literally defining the importance of the club in different terms, and so you are almost viewing it as two seperate entities. One side's main concern is that they want to see the club win and succed, the other side's main concern is that they want to see the club healthy in the long term. Both sides value each others' concerns, but have just rearranged their priorities. Now that I am done stating the obvious, carry on...

20th July 2010, 09:49	#4014 (permalink)
Plan M First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: ★ ★ ★ Posts: 10,062	I agree with Fred.

21st July 2010, 12:01	#4039 (permalink)
Ish84045 raisa84045 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: "WhatF*ckingWhat" Posts: 2,667	Sorry, started a thread on the topic. Why I will never forgive SAF - Daniel Harris