Green and Gold till the club is Sold!

Walrus · 3rd March 2010, 18:29

Quote:

Manchester United owners Glazers get backing from Gill

Manchester United chief executive David Gill has dismissed concerns surrounding the Glazer family, claiming the owners were "running the club the right way".

The club's debt level of £716.5m has prompted much unease among supporters, with one group of wealthy fans - "The Red Knights" - targeting a takeover.

But Mr Gill said: "The Glazers do not want to sell and from our perspective are running the club in the right way.

"The owners are very long-term owners... they are not sellers."

The so-called Red Knights include Goldman Sachs economist Jim O'Neill, acting in a personal capacity, lawyer Mark Rawlinson and financier Keith Harris.

Mr Gill said that the group were "credible people" who had "every right to do what they think is right".

But he added there were questions about how a group of up to 40 wealthy individuals would be able to run the club.

There has been criticism of the Glazer regime because a once-debt free company is now carrying large debts.

Manchester United fans protest against the Glazer family ownership of the club
Manchester United fans have protested against the Glazer's ownership

The amount of debt secured on the club and the Glazers' shareholding in it is more than £700m according to recent accounts.

However Mr Gill said that a recent bond issue which replaced £509m bank debt with a £512m bond provided financial stability going forward.

He added: "Our financial results show that we can live with [our financial] structure, and enjoy the benefits."

Before the emergence of the Red Knights, United's owners were already under fire over their control of the club from the Manchester United Supporters' Trust (Must) - which is running a vocal campaign to bring about a change of ownership.

Chief executive of Must, Duncan Drasdo, said its membership had doubled to about 78,000 people in the past month - with much of that growth coming following the "Red Knights revelation".

"People will see that Manchester United will continue to be a well-run club
David Gill"
Manchester United chief executive David Gill

Mr Gill said that those Manchester United fan groups opposed to the Glazers ownership of the club were intelligent people with ideas about how the Old Trafford outfit should be run.

But he said the issue had perhaps received the wide coverage that it did because United was such a big club.

And he pointed to the cases of clubs like Chelsea, Manchester City, and AC Milan, where it is the owners who make key decisions "not the fans".

Mr Gill told Soccerex delegates: "Unless the owners wish to sell, and they have not given any indication to me, then they can't buy the asset - it is not for sale."

He said that although the Glazer family did not attend every match at Old Trafford they watched them all on television.

"They are passionate about the club, they do understand sport," he added.

He also pointed to the fact that the Glazer family had owned the Tampa Bay Buccaneers American Football team since 1995, demonstrating their long-term interest in sport.

"People will see that Manchester United will continue to be a well-run club," he said.

"The structure we have in place is entirely appropriate."

BBC News - Manchester United owners Glazers get backing from Gill

He actually sounds genuine now, hellbent on alienating himself from the fans? Purely deluded? Towing the company line?

comlag · 3rd March 2010, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walrus

BBC News - Manchester United owners Glazers get backing from Gill

He actually sounds genuine now, hellbent on alienating himself from the fans? Purely deluded? Towing the company line?

He's hoping for a stalemate and then to see if the campaign runs out of steam.

vanrooney · 3rd March 2010, 18:34

I am with SAF in this. All actions that arent affecting the team are welcome but as soon as we arent supporting our team i am against it. We shouldnt take all the talk too serious imo as we all dont know exactly how the accounts look like.

ralphie88 · 3rd March 2010, 21:40

A half-term report from the man that started the whole Green and Gold thing -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatmaster

Six Fucking weeks Since MOST of the members of this site launched the G&G protest, and ran with it like fucking loons.

If I am not mistaken G&G was in the majority at Wembley and people are making their feeling noticed.

We all know there will be / is a certain following of numpties, as there will be to any cause, but lets keep it in perspective. Even excluding these people there are a lot of 'reds' who are making their own stand in their own way.
There have always been twats at united and whether they are wearing red or G&G it won't make them any less twatish.

If nothing else it has attracted a huge amount of media attention, and focused a lot of people on the general state of football as well as our situation as a club, and for that alone it has been a success.

It has also cause a certain amount of division, although some of those people clearly have their own agendas which are not being met whilst the focus is elsewhere, and everything causes division to some extent.

Those decrying it or claiming it has had no effect are clearly unable to see the TV newspapers or internet, and to say it has run it's course after 6 weeks is quite fucking bizarre.

The club have been forced to released 2 statements, first time in 5 years as far as I am aware, and SAF has also chipped in twice, or at least his scriptwriters have.

The silence from many of the former 'legends' has been fucking deafening, perhaps they haven't noticed that fans have taken to dressing slightly differently.

Evra seems to have noticed somehow, perhaps he can explain to Gary what the moustachioed lothario is missing. He could also perhaps mention to Paddy that there might be more than 'a couple of hundred' fans not too happy with Slobbering Malc's reign.

MUST have jumped firmly on the G&G bandwagon and used it to possibly it's best advantage. They are often critisided, particullarly by myself, not necessarily for their commitment but certainly for their execution.

They have however pulled a fucking blinder here by doing exactly what nobody in their right mind thought they could do, and introduce a new element into the equation in the form of 'Red Knights' and what a fucking line up they have got.

We all knew Orville was there or thereabouts but the O'Neil and others is a real coup. Their appointment of Finsbury Group within half an hour of the last meeting also shows they are taking this seriously.

They have affilited themselves with MUST, and also by implication all other fan groups. Their press release to this effect obviously lays down a completely different foundation than the one the Glazers chose, although ultimately a good beginning does not always equate to a good ending.

It is VITAL we now give the instructions as to what WE want out of the deal, and a list needs to be provided by each supporter group, ourselves, the mags, LUHG, IMUSA, FCUM etc and of course MUST. These requirements need to be legal and achievable and if they are feasible then the consortium will agree.

If they want our support, then they will have to give something in return. We are not going to swap one shit owner for another.

Don't expect the consortium to come out fighting the Glazers or Gill from the off, they have got to deal with these people, and we need to let them do this in their own way. It's never going to be possible to negotiate with people you can't talk to, so let them get on with it.

What action we as supporters eventually take will then depend on what situation we are in, and how much the Glazer cunts decide they want to fight.

I don't expect this will be over in the short term, there is too much to do, and too many twists and turns yet to come. We all know the press like to build up and then knock down anything like this, but they are going to have a hard job doing so this time I think.

You should all be extremely proud of yourselves, some of you have really excelled in what you have done in such a short time.

Obviously none of this could have happened without the basis of the original protestors from 2005 and earlier, and it seems a shame so many divisions still exist. I hope some of these divisions will get chance to heal when these parasitic cunts are brought to their knees.

Final word goes to our beloved owners "Manchester United is not for sale" - Where have I heard that before ?

Crumpsall Red · 3rd March 2010, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

A half-term report from the man that started the whole Green and Gold thing -

Thanks Ralphie, beautifully put Chatmaster.

A long way to go but superb progress so far!

Walrus · 3rd March 2010, 23:30

Hypothesize this situation:

At the moment, people dont want to boycott the club or donate to a cause because there is no guarantee of it achieving anything.

If a takeover is completed with say £400m of debt, the Red Knights offer to sell shares in the club to MUST directly. MUST then takes donations from its members each month and buys its stake in the club whilst paying off the debt - and the donaters from MUST will ultimately get a say in how things are done.
By the time the takeover is complete, 100,000 real MUST members capable of donating is a fair target. If each of those donates £10 a month, thats £1m per month that MUST can put into the club. Realistically, when the money is going directly towards shares in the club there would be far higher investment than that, probably closer to £3m per month (might be slightly optimistic, but im putting faith in the fact that there are quite a few well off United fans who could easily put in £50-£250 each money). That is £36m per year - a pretty decent contribution towards the debt from the fans, and enough to start taking ownership of the club in the longer term.

All this has been commented on before - but if people know their money is going straight into United towards the debt and that they will potentially be getting shares back from it, the purse strings would very quickly loosen.

ralphie88 · 4th March 2010, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walrus

Hypothesize this situation:

At the moment, people dont want to boycott the club or donate to a cause because there is no guarantee of it achieving anything.

If a takeover is completed with say £400m of debt, the Red Knights offer to sell shares in the club to MUST directly. MUST then takes donations from its members each month and buys its stake in the club whilst paying off the debt - and the donaters from MUST will ultimately get a say in how things are done.
By the time the takeover is complete, 100,000 real MUST members capable of donating is a fair target. If each of those donates £10 a month, thats £1m per month that MUST can put into the club. Realistically, when the money is going directly towards shares in the club there would be far higher investment than that, probably closer to £3m per month (might be slightly optimistic, but im putting faith in the fact that there are quite a few well off United fans who could easily put in £50-£250 each money). That is £36m per year - a pretty decent contribution towards the debt from the fans, and enough to start taking ownership of the club in the longer term.

All this has been commented on before - but if people know their money is going straight into United towards the debt and that they will potentially be getting shares back from it, the purse strings would very quickly loosen.

My personal view is that your figures for fan contributions are optimistic, but the general theory is spot on. And there are other clever ways to get such a large membership to increase contributions from other sources (sponsorship, affinity marketing etc.).

Crerand Legend · 4th March 2010, 00:24

There was a member of the audience threw out of MUTVs "Redcafe" tonight for wearing a green/gold scarf, they really are gettng paranoid but good publicity for the campaign

Link Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf | Mail Online

ralphie88 · 4th March 2010, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crerand Legend

There was a member of the audience threw out of MUTVs "Redcafe" tonight for wearing a green/gold scarf, they really are gettng paranoid but good publicity for the campaign

Link Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf | Mail Online

That's a really depressing story.

I know Steve well, a truly solid United fan who lives just round the corner from Old Trafford. Very popular lad whose 50th birthday bash a few years ago was frequented by many a red. He always used to go to the MUTV Red Cafe shows despite a fair bit of ribbing for it and provided a bit of colour and entertainment to the show. Shoddy treatment of a loyal fan by the club.

RK · 4th March 2010, 03:36

Gill probably has to come out and say these things, but it's got to the stage where he's trying to convince us that his tie is actually a donkey.

Or something.

zain · 4th March 2010, 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walrus

Hypothesize this situation:

At the moment, people dont want to boycott the club or donate to a cause because there is no guarantee of it achieving anything.

If a takeover is completed with say £400m of debt, the Red Knights offer to sell shares in the club to MUST directly. MUST then takes donations from its members each month and buys its stake in the club whilst paying off the debt - and the donaters from MUST will ultimately get a say in how things are done.
By the time the takeover is complete, 100,000 real MUST members capable of donating is a fair target. If each of those donates £10 a month, thats £1m per month that MUST can put into the club. Realistically, when the money is going directly towards shares in the club there would be far higher investment than that, probably closer to £3m per month (might be slightly optimistic, but im putting faith in the fact that there are quite a few well off United fans who could easily put in £50-£250 each money). That is £36m per year - a pretty decent contribution towards the debt from the fans, and enough to start taking ownership of the club in the longer term.

All this has been commented on before - but if people know their money is going straight into United towards the debt and that they will potentially be getting shares back from it, the purse strings would very quickly loosen.

Very very optimistic figures there I'll tell you, as I myself have been a member of MUST since way before the takeover and since it was SU and had shares myself..

The problem is, hardly 30,000 or so supporters contributed towards SU or bought shares at that time for a stake in the club when we were a PLC, without debt, and the option for supporters to own part of the club, what makes it any different now that supporters will contribute more?

Julian Denny · 4th March 2010, 06:20

What Gill says is somewhat irrelevant. He's a Glazer employee right now. As I said earlier, the MUST initiative to guage support for the Red Knights should show that there is substantial support world wide for the RK initiative. Hopefully those numbers will be impressive. The Glazers will know then, for sure, that they are not wanted.

It's up to Harris & co to show their credentials and to put down an offer. If rejected a full scale boycott should follow but who knows where that will take us. Driving out the Glazers could be very costly indeed.

fishfingers15 · 4th March 2010, 07:18

Posted by Corinthian11 in the Guardian Forum. Not an United fan, so leaving the piss taking aside, raises some valid and silly points.

4 Mar 2010, 6:15AM

My three American cousins are all fervent supporters of a team called 'Maaaan Yoooou'; despite their Glasgow/Liverpool heritage. They cross the pond twice a year to attend a game, spend about £500 each in the club shop; back home they are subscribers to various TV packages to enable them to follow their team through thick and thick. They are what modern football is all about - the digital Stretford Enders... the remote supporter as cash cow, as projected advertising revenue, as willing dupes to their own enslavement - because as real supporters - no price is too much.

They are why the carpetbaggers and hedge fund spivs find the top tier of English football such an attractive investment prospect because in the global market place my American cousins represent big advertising dollars. In a very real sense my they kill the thing they are supposed to love a little bit more every time they switch on their TV sets.

Let's not forget that we're talking about the most successful team since Sky invented football - Man Utd as a perfect metaphor for our fucked up country - all whistles and bells when it comes to marching on, on... on - but scratch beneath the surface of the whited sepulcher and you've the stench of decay...

Marching on, on, on to the club shop and buying some green and gold tat ain't going to change this scenario any time soon.

I wish you well in your quest and (spit) the Kopites who join you in your protest - but say you get everything that you wish for and still dominate the game in a ruling three or four team oligarchy with the rest of us just there to make up the numbers?

What will you have achieved?

Walrus · 4th March 2010, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

My personal view is that your figures for fan contributions are optimistic, but the general theory is spot on. And there are other clever ways to get such a large membership to increase contributions from other sources (sponsorship, affinity marketing etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by zain

Very very optimistic figures there I'll tell you, as I myself have been a member of MUST since way before the takeover and since it was SU and had shares myself..

The problem is, hardly 30,000 or so supporters contributed towards SU or bought shares at that time for a stake in the club when we were a PLC, without debt, and the option for supporters to own part of the club, what makes it any different now that supporters will contribute more?

Probably a little optimistic, but dont underestimate the power of the fans - when they know their money is actually doing something. People wont want to donate/boycott when all there is at the moment is speculation and rumour. If the groundwork and all is actually put into place to allow the fans to buy back the club whilst paying off the debt, I daresay that quite a lot of people will be willing to open up their wallets...I certainly would.

kf · 4th March 2010, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazalini

£230 a game times 9000 punters is £2.07m of the Delloittes matchday revenue figure of £3.6m which would mean the remaining 66,000 non corporates are spending an average of £23 a game all in (ticket, beer, pies... etc) which sounds too low to me. That would actually be pretty good value!

OK - Granted that figure looks bad.... How much does a season ticket cost for 18 games a season?

I seem to remember being told before the Glazers took over that the corporate match day revenue was about a third of the total which would put it at £1.2m today. Are there 9000 corporate tickets Baz?

OT has I think 12,000 seats which can be allocated as corporate.... Whether these are all used on Matchday as corporate I doubt it

This season for 19 league games my ST is £37 a game. The Delloitte figures are 08/09 so for comparison last season was I think a couple of quid cheaper at £35. I still think there's mileage in attacking the non ticket match day revenue but it would be interesting to know exactly how much it is. We don't need to empty the ground to affect the Glazers' precarious position, reducing revenue by 10% can be done with a full ground I would think just by not buying anything else but tickets. Maybe the Megawhore would start selling green and gold scarves....

zain · 4th March 2010, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walrus

Probably a little optimistic, but dont underestimate the power of the fans - when they know their money is actually doing something. People wont want to donate/boycott when all there is at the moment is speculation and rumour. If the groundwork and all is actually put into place to allow the fans to buy back the club whilst paying off the debt, I daresay that quite a lot of people will be willing to open up their wallets...I certainly would.

But groundwork and certainty was there for the fans before the takeover!
If fans bought shares pre Glazer, there would have been no stopping fans having a stake in the club!

Only a few supporters chipped in though at the time?!

Inigo Montoya · 4th March 2010, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by zain

But groundwork and certainty was there for the fans before the takeover!
If fans bought shares pre Glazer, there would have been no stopping fans having a stake in the club!

Only a few supporters chipped in though at the time?!

That's the sad reality of that situation... too little too late.
I recall trying to get people to buy shares when travelling to games and it was futile to say the least. So many just buried their heads in the sand

UnitedRoadRed · 4th March 2010, 12:00

The players should not lose our support as a way of getting these c*nts out. Because Stone Cold says so.

bazalini · 4th March 2010, 12:57

Amazes me when their is so much admiration towards MUST and their G&G campaign - that they have not set about making money from their exercise - which can be used in their ultimate pursuit.

Instead we have all the hackers outside stadium selling the Scarves, hats - etc making a fortune. A case where they had a good idea - but went with it before giving it much thought.

UnitedRoadRed · 4th March 2010, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazalini

Amazes me when their is so much admiration towards MUST and their G&G campaign - that they have not set about making money from their exercise - which can be used in their ultimate pursuit.

Instead we have all the hackers outside stadium selling the Scarves, hats - etc making a fortune. A case where they had a good idea - but went with it before giving it much though.

The irony.

bazalini · 4th March 2010, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnitedRoadRed

The irony.

Aye - That is me being dyslexic again... Your problem with my disability is?

UnitedRoadRed · 4th March 2010, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazalini

Aye - That is me being dyslexic again... Your problem with my disability is?

That you use it every time you fuck up to make people feel shit. Well I don't, so there.

George the Giraffe · 4th March 2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazalini

Amazes me when their is so much admiration towards MUST and their G&G campaign - that they have not set about making money from their exercise - which can be used in their ultimate pursuit.

Instead we have all the hackers outside stadium selling the Scarves, hats - etc making a fortune. A case where they had a good idea - but went with it before giving it much thought.

The idea is to get as many people as we can in Green and Gold, which means selling the scarves at the lowest price possible. We are asking for donations though, most people are paying £5 for the scarves with £2.50 going towards the campaign fund.

The problem is that if you try and get people to spend money they will be but off. The whole point of this campaign is to get everyone on board. MUST are never going to make more than a few thousand from this campaign which in the grand scheme of things isn't going to help get United back. Everyone wearing Green and Gold and being on board will help make a difference. Currently, the number of members is more important than the money donated by those members (unless we are talking a very high figure of course).

It's not ideal that other people are making money from Green and Gold, but from the very start we have accepted that it's better that the scarves etcetera are easily available rather than having limited supplies from MUST.

SirAF · 4th March 2010, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crerand Legend

There was a member of the audience threw out of MUTVs "Redcafe" tonight for wearing a green/gold scarf, they really are gettng paranoid but good publicity for the campaign

Link Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf | Mail Online

That's really a disgrace !

bazalini · 4th March 2010, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by George the Giraffe

The idea is to get as many people as we can in Green and Gold, which means selling the scarves at the lowest price possible. We are asking for donations though, most people are paying £5 for the scarves with £2.50 going towards the campaign fund.

The problem is that if you try and get people to spend money they will be but off. The whole point of this campaign is to get everyone on board. MUST are never going to make more than a few thousand from this campaign which in the grand scheme of things isn't going to help get United back. Everyone wearing Green and Gold and being on board will help make a difference. Currently, the number of members is more important than the money donated by those members (unless we are talking a very high figure of course).

It's not ideal that other people are making money from Green and Gold, but from the very start we have accepted that it's better that the scarves etcetera are easily available rather than having limited supplies from MUST.

George - The Hackers are making a fortune

Nistelrooy10 · 4th March 2010, 19:27

1 Billion pound bid turned down by Glazers

Spoony Youngblood · 4th March 2010, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nistelrooy10

1 Billion pound bid turned down by Glazers

basically 'if you want to buy United it'll cost well over a billion notes'.

They haven't turned down any bid.

Nistelrooy10 · 4th March 2010, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoony Youngblood

basically 'if you want to buy United it'll cost well over a billion notes'.

They haven't turned down any bid.

The soccernet article says they turned down offers they coundn't refuse from an Arab and a Chinese. They would have made profit but turned it down. I can't help but think that I was right and the campaign didn't work. Without boycotting sponsors, tickets, what have you, those types of people simply don't care about people waving scarves. They feel confident the supporters will still pay and watch the team no matter how high they raise prices.

Spoony Youngblood · 4th March 2010, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nistelrooy10

The soccernet article says they turned down offers they coundn't refuse from an Arab and a Chinese. They would have made profit but turned it down. I can't help but think that I was right and the campaign didn't work. Without boycotting sponsors, tickets, what have you, those types of people simply don't care about people waving scarves. They feel confident the supporters will still pay and watch the team no matter how high they raise prices.

'a source says'. As I said smells like bullshit.

Nistelrooy10 · 4th March 2010, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoony Youngblood

'a source says'. As I said smells like bullshit.

I hope so. The only thing is, I don't remember soccernet reporting bullshit before, something to keep in mind

MiamiSpartan · 4th March 2010, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nistelrooy10

I hope so. The only thing is, I don't remember soccernet reporting bullshit before, something to keep in mind

I take it you didn't spend much time in the Ronaldo speculation thread during the summer of 08?

MiamiSpartan · 4th March 2010, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfingers15

Posted by Corinthian11 in the Guardian Forum. Not an United fan, so leaving the piss taking aside, raises some valid and silly points.

4 Mar 2010, 6:15AM

My three American cousins are all fervent supporters of a team called 'Maaaan Yoooou'; despite their Glasgow/Liverpool heritage. They cross the pond twice a year to attend a game, spend about £500 each in the club shop; back home they are subscribers to various TV packages to enable them to follow their team through thick and thick. They are what modern football is all about - the digital Stretford Enders... the remote supporter as cash cow, as projected advertising revenue, as willing dupes to their own enslavement - because as real supporters - no price is too much.

They are why the carpetbaggers and hedge fund spivs find the top tier of English football such an attractive investment prospect because in the global market place my American cousins represent big advertising dollars. In a very real sense my they kill the thing they are supposed to love a little bit more every time they switch on their TV sets.

Let's not forget that we're talking about the most successful team since Sky invented football - Man Utd as a perfect metaphor for our fucked up country - all whistles and bells when it comes to marching on, on... on - but scratch beneath the surface of the whited sepulcher and you've the stench of decay...

Marching on, on, on to the club shop and buying some green and gold tat ain't going to change this scenario any time soon.

I wish you well in your quest and (spit) the Kopites who join you in your protest - but say you get everything that you wish for and still dominate the game in a ruling three or four team oligarchy with the rest of us just there to make up the numbers?

What will you have achieved?

Not all of us American supporters are like that, that's for sure. Of course some are. Probably quite a lot. But there are some of us that live by a higher standard. Funny that he mentions how much they spend in the Megastore. My boycott of official merchandise started long before the Glazers showed up on the scene.

Though to be fair, I see a hell of a lot more people wearing Chelsea shirts the past 5 years than United.

032Devil · 4th March 2010, 22:15

Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf | Mail Online

Manchester United have been accused of behaving like a communist dictatorship after barring a fan wearing a green-and-gold scarf from appearing on the club' s in-house television station.

Lifelong supporter Steve Tilzey was thrown off the show Red Cafe on MUTV when he refused to take off the scarf, a symbol of the protests against the Glazer family's ownership.

He said: 'This is censorship. It's symbolic of what is happening at the club and it is bang out of order. It's like being told to leave by the secret police or the Stasi. But this isn't Tianaman Square, it's a peaceful protest.'
Former United players answer questions from supporters on the programme and Tilzey is often a member of the audience.

He added: 'I have been going on it regularly for about 18 months. About 20 minutes into the programme during an advertising break, suddenly I got a tap on my shoulder and there were two or three security guards saying: "You have to take that off or leave." I said: "I will never take the scarf off but I am prepared to leave."

'I don't blame the producer or the floor manager. They got a call and they were told to get me off. Another man was wearing a green-and-gold scarf but he chose to take his off. He must have felt intimidated.

'I went to the bar and people, the crew, the security guards, were coming up to me and saying: "That is so, so wrong".

"I don't wear it to wind people up. I wear it because it's my club. I have been wearing it for the last five or six weeks. I wore it at work and in town and I didn't even think about it when I went to the show with it on. I wore it on the Red Cafe about three weeks ago and no one said a thing. This is the first time the club has gone into press censorship. It's not acceptable.'
And Tilzey said the club's heavy-handed treatment was needless – because he wasn't using the show to ask awkward questions.

He added: 'I had put my name down to ask a question. I wanted to ask Lee Martin, one of the ex-players, about the 1991 European campaign. It wasn't a political statement.'

ralphie88 · 4th March 2010, 22:17

Rumour has it that the lovely Hayley McQueen was kicking off about this afterwards with the cunts who decided to chuck him off.

Wibble · 4th March 2010, 22:26

I'm not convinced that there have been serious offers before since we only seem to be hearing about them now. More likely this is a way of trying to jack the price up by the Glazers. I'm guessing that they have done their sums and they would happily walk away for a billion or a bit more but know that if the offer is much below the billion figures that they have the leeway provided by the bond to keep ownership for a few years and make a large profit then. Obviously I am guestimating how much they would and wouldn't take as is anyone who makes an estimate, even those who know far more than I do about the available detail regarding United's and the Glazer's finances.

What I am fairly convinced of is that for the first time since the takeover there is a real point to focus on for opponents of Glazer (which when it comes down to it is just about every United fan) to try to encourage him to sell now that there may be a credible offer on the table that may well improve things for United.

A takeover might not make things better but on the face of it you would hope it would. Worth the risk I suspect.

peterstorey · 4th March 2010, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

I'm guessing that they have done their sums and they would happily walk away for a billion or a bit more but know that if the offer is much below the billion figures that they have the leeway provided by the bond to keep ownership for a few years and make a large profit then.

Why sell out now for £1Bn, which is about break even when 7-10 years time you'll very likely be sitting on a very large profit? Glazers were in the shit 3 months ago post-bond they're not and can afford to play the long game.

B Cantona · 4th March 2010, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

when 7-10 years time you'll very likely be sitting on a very large profit?

Where's the evidence of that?

Crerand Legend · 4th March 2010, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

Why sell out now for £1Bn, which is about break even when 7-10 years time you'll very likely be sitting on a very large profit? Glazers were in the shit 3 months ago post-bond they're not and can afford to play the long game.

Yes providing the fans continue to buy season tickets etc. They dont and the Americans have a problem. It could finish up messy. that will no doubt please the supporters of clubs like your own

KingMinger22 · 4th March 2010, 22:44

how are they going to keep up with the interest payments without Ronaldo-sized sales?

And they can't do that because other than Rooney, no one in this team would fetch much more than 20 mil!

And we'd be out of the CL etc...

peterstorey · 4th March 2010, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Cantona

Where's the evidence of that?

They've got enough cash to pay down most if not all of the PIKS in the summer. That will leave them with a bond @ £42M interest (and a revolving credit facility interest say £8M) on operating profit of about £80M. Ie going forward they only need to service the bond once they've sorted the short term credit and any residual PIKS

4th March 2010, 22:15	#2033 (permalink)
032Devil First Team Regular Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 19,325	Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf \| Mail Online Manchester United have been accused of behaving like a communist dictatorship after barring a fan wearing a green-and-gold scarf from appearing on the club' s in-house television station. Lifelong supporter Steve Tilzey was thrown off the show Red Cafe on MUTV when he refused to take off the scarf, a symbol of the protests against the Glazer family's ownership. He said: 'This is censorship. It's symbolic of what is happening at the club and it is bang out of order. It's like being told to leave by the secret police or the Stasi. But this isn't Tianaman Square, it's a peaceful protest.' Former United players answer questions from supporters on the programme and Tilzey is often a member of the audience. He added: 'I have been going on it regularly for about 18 months. About 20 minutes into the programme during an advertising break, suddenly I got a tap on my shoulder and there were two or three security guards saying: "You have to take that off or leave." I said: "I will never take the scarf off but I am prepared to leave." 'I don't blame the producer or the floor manager. They got a call and they were told to get me off. Another man was wearing a green-and-gold scarf but he chose to take his off. He must have felt intimidated. 'I went to the bar and people, the crew, the security guards, were coming up to me and saying: "That is so, so wrong". "I don't wear it to wind people up. I wear it because it's my club. I have been wearing it for the last five or six weeks. I wore it at work and in town and I didn't even think about it when I went to the show with it on. I wore it on the Red Cafe about three weeks ago and no one said a thing. This is the first time the club has gone into press censorship. It's not acceptable.' And Tilzey said the club's heavy-handed treatment was needless – because he wasn't using the show to ask awkward questions. He added: 'I had put my name down to ask a question. I wanted to ask Lee Martin, one of the ex-players, about the 1991 European campaign. It wasn't a political statement.'

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3rd March 2010, 18:34	#2003 (permalink)
vanrooney Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Austria Posts: 1,258	I am with SAF in this. All actions that arent affecting the team are welcome but as soon as we arent supporting our team i am against it. We shouldnt take all the talk too serious imo as we all dont know exactly how the accounts look like.

3rd March 2010, 23:30	#2006 (permalink)
Walrus Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,195	Hypothesize this situation: At the moment, people dont want to boycott the club or donate to a cause because there is no guarantee of it achieving anything. If a takeover is completed with say £400m of debt, the Red Knights offer to sell shares in the club to MUST directly. MUST then takes donations from its members each month and buys its stake in the club whilst paying off the debt - and the donaters from MUST will ultimately get a say in how things are done. By the time the takeover is complete, 100,000 real MUST members capable of donating is a fair target. If each of those donates £10 a month, thats £1m per month that MUST can put into the club. Realistically, when the money is going directly towards shares in the club there would be far higher investment than that, probably closer to £3m per month (might be slightly optimistic, but im putting faith in the fact that there are quite a few well off United fans who could easily put in £50-£250 each money). That is £36m per year - a pretty decent contribution towards the debt from the fans, and enough to start taking ownership of the club in the longer term. All this has been commented on before - but if people know their money is going straight into United towards the debt and that they will potentially be getting shares back from it, the purse strings would very quickly loosen.

4th March 2010, 00:24	#2008 (permalink)
Crerand Legend Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7,865	There was a member of the audience threw out of MUTVs "Redcafe" tonight for wearing a green/gold scarf, they really are gettng paranoid but good publicity for the campaign Link Manchester United fan thrown off MUTV for wearing green-and-gold scarf \| Mail Online

4th March 2010, 03:36	#2010 (permalink)
RK First Team Regular Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,933	Gill probably has to come out and say these things, but it's got to the stage where he's trying to convince us that his tie is actually a donkey. Or something.

4th March 2010, 06:20	#2012 (permalink)
Julian Denny Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Africa Posts: 4,073	What Gill says is somewhat irrelevant. He's a Glazer employee right now. As I said earlier, the MUST initiative to guage support for the Red Knights should show that there is substantial support world wide for the RK initiative. Hopefully those numbers will be impressive. The Glazers will know then, for sure, that they are not wanted. It's up to Harris & co to show their credentials and to put down an offer. If rejected a full scale boycott should follow but who knows where that will take us. Driving out the Glazers could be very costly indeed.

4th March 2010, 07:18	#2013 (permalink)
fishfingers15 First Team Sub Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Nani Are you ok? Are you ok? Are you ok Nani? Posts: 5,101	Posted by Corinthian11 in the Guardian Forum. Not an United fan, so leaving the piss taking aside, raises some valid and silly points. 4 Mar 2010, 6:15AM My three American cousins are all fervent supporters of a team called 'Maaaan Yoooou'; despite their Glasgow/Liverpool heritage. They cross the pond twice a year to attend a game, spend about £500 each in the club shop; back home they are subscribers to various TV packages to enable them to follow their team through thick and thick. They are what modern football is all about - the digital Stretford Enders... the remote supporter as cash cow, as projected advertising revenue, as willing dupes to their own enslavement - because as real supporters - no price is too much. They are why the carpetbaggers and hedge fund spivs find the top tier of English football such an attractive investment prospect because in the global market place my American cousins represent big advertising dollars. In a very real sense my they kill the thing they are supposed to love a little bit more every time they switch on their TV sets. Let's not forget that we're talking about the most successful team since Sky invented football - Man Utd as a perfect metaphor for our fucked up country - all whistles and bells when it comes to marching on, on... on - but scratch beneath the surface of the whited sepulcher and you've the stench of decay... Marching on, on, on to the club shop and buying some green and gold tat ain't going to change this scenario any time soon. I wish you well in your quest and (spit) the Kopites who join you in your protest - but say you get everything that you wish for and still dominate the game in a ruling three or four team oligarchy with the rest of us just there to make up the numbers? What will you have achieved?

4th March 2010, 12:00	#2018 (permalink)
UnitedRoadRed First Team Sub Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 5,619	The players should not lose our support as a way of getting these c*nts out. Because Stone Cold says so.

4th March 2010, 12:57	#2019 (permalink)
bazalini Join Date: May 2000 Location: RIP "The General" Posts: 21,874	Amazes me when their is so much admiration towards MUST and their G&G campaign - that they have not set about making money from their exercise - which can be used in their ultimate pursuit. Instead we have all the hackers outside stadium selling the Scarves, hats - etc making a fortune. A case where they had a good idea - but went with it before giving it much thought.

4th March 2010, 19:27	#2026 (permalink)
Nistelrooy10 Tin Foil Hatter Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 6,194	1 Billion pound bid turned down by Glazers

4th March 2010, 22:17	#2034 (permalink)
ralphie88 First Team Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Stretford Posts: 14,336	Rumour has it that the lovely Hayley McQueen was kicking off about this afterwards with the cunts who decided to chuck him off.

4th March 2010, 22:26	#2035 (permalink)
Wibble Ingadus Speramus Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Centre Back Posts: 49,870	I'm not convinced that there have been serious offers before since we only seem to be hearing about them now. More likely this is a way of trying to jack the price up by the Glazers. I'm guessing that they have done their sums and they would happily walk away for a billion or a bit more but know that if the offer is much below the billion figures that they have the leeway provided by the bond to keep ownership for a few years and make a large profit then. Obviously I am guestimating how much they would and wouldn't take as is anyone who makes an estimate, even those who know far more than I do about the available detail regarding United's and the Glazer's finances. What I am fairly convinced of is that for the first time since the takeover there is a real point to focus on for opponents of Glazer (which when it comes down to it is just about every United fan) to try to encourage him to sell now that there may be a credible offer on the table that may well improve things for United. A takeover might not make things better but on the face of it you would hope it would. Worth the risk I suspect.

4th March 2010, 22:44	#2039 (permalink)
KingMinger22 City >>> United Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Banbury Posts: 2,883	how are they going to keep up with the interest payments without Ronaldo-sized sales? And they can't do that because other than Rooney, no one in this team would fetch much more than 20 mil! And we'd be out of the CL etc...