Hargreaves - one signing too many?

Ekeke · 23rd January 2008, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

go support liverpool. sick of all these people slagging our own players and praising one from a rival team. support hargreaves and mascherano can suck owen's dick.

It's called being objective. Things would be very boring if there werent a few people capable of doing that.

choiboyx012 · 23rd January 2008, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

It's called being objective. Things would be very boring if there werent a few people capable of doing that.

that is not being objective. it's wanking over a rival player. i say things like fabregas is an excellent player, or cashley cole is a great LB, or torres is a good striker.. that's being objective. saying you want to see these guys in a united shirt and dump one of our own is pathetic and disgusting.

Wes · 23rd January 2008, 01:03

I really don't see Mascherano as better than Hargreaves.

Ekeke · 23rd January 2008, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

that is not being objective. it's wanking over a rival player. i say things like fabregas is an excellent player, or cashley cole is a great LB, or torres is a good striker.. that's being objective. saying you want to see these guys in a united shirt and dump one of our own is pathetic and disgusting.

See now, here's your problem. You're seeing things.

Someone said they wished we had gone in for him instead of Hargreaves. Nobody is saying "lets dump him and replace him with the guy playing for the dippers"

They just feel he is a better player and would have been the better signing.

Ekeke · 23rd January 2008, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

I really don't see Mascherano as better than Hargreaves.

I see him as a better defensive cover, better tackler, more accurate passer but less energetic and less mobile. However those things arent needed so much with so little ground to cover to do his job effectively.

Hargreaves is faster, has more stamina, has a better freekick (though that wasnt needed) and... Gets injured a lot more. Things would be far more equal without that part.

Lady In Red · 23rd January 2008, 01:11

Cant believe this thread is still going on

choiboyx012 · 23rd January 2008, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

See now, here's your problem. You're seeing things.

Someone said they wished we had gone in for him instead of Hargreaves. Nobody is saying "lets dump him and replace him with the guy playing for the dippers"

They just feel he is a better player and would have been the better signing.

i never said anything about replacing. fact is, hargreaves is at united now, mascherano went to liverpooh so stop creaming over our rivals' players. you could say the same thing for (almost) all of our players, and how so and so is a better player and would have been a better signing.

Johnno · 23rd January 2008, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by John the Writer

I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I really do get the feeling that Hargreaves has been a completely unnecessary signing. Obviously we all knew the need to sign an additional midfielder over the summer, and none of us could have expected Anderson to bed into the side in the manner he has. I get the feeling that ferguson persisted with this transfer due to the song and dance made about the lad the previous summer, but I also get the feeling he may well be re-evaluating Hargreaves' status in our squad. I think there might be something about the Veloso rumours, and if this move was to become a reality, I think Owen could well be the player to make way.

Now I realise that scholes won't play forever and Fletcher might not have Hargreaves' quality, but he's clearly injury prone, and he seems to be somewhat of a liability.

I didn't envisage Anderson being the player he is, and his ability to dominate a midfield and make crunching tackles renders what Hargreaves offers to the team almost redundant.

So what say you, was Hargreaves one signing too many?

You will change your tune after we play the upcoming Champions League matches, and if we beat Lyon like I expect we should do with a fair amount of difficulty let it be said, and we meet an Italian side or God forbid, Chelsea, you shall see the role Hargreaves will play for us.

REd FUn DevIl · 23rd January 2008, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

I really don't see Mascherano as better than Hargreaves.

Obviously cause he isnt better than Hargreaves. The only thing i can see Mascherano does have better is the fitness that is the real problem of Hargreaves. On every other aspect Hargreaves is way better than Mascherano and not to mention his experience.

Ekeke · 23rd January 2008, 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

i never said anything about replacing. fact is, hargreaves is at united now, mascherano went to liverpooh so stop creaming over our rivals' players. you could say the same thing for (almost) all of our players, and how so and so is a better player and would have been a better signing.

Indeed.

But the reason they are saying it now, about these two players is because he went to a rival club and in their opinion was/is the better player.

If Ronaldinho had gone to Liverpool and we had signed Quaresma instead of Ronaldo, there would have been similar threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by REd FUn DevIl

Obviously cause he isnt better than Hargreaves. The only thing i can see Mascherano does have better is the fitness that is the real problem of Hargreaves. On every other aspect Hargreaves is way better than Mascherano and not to mention his experience.

Yes... Hargreaves' experience is much better... It's not like Mascherano has won tournaments playing an important role for his country.

AttackingFlair · 23rd January 2008, 02:16

Mascherano kept Kaka quiet, that's good enough for me. In fact, we could've used someone like that. I'm hoping Hargreaves will have a similar effect.

fredthered · 23rd January 2008, 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

I really don't see Mascherano as better than Hargreaves.

The way hes been playing lately I dont see Mascherano being any better than Fletcher let alone Hargreaves..

Brad · 23rd January 2008, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttackingFlair

Mascherano kept Kaka quiet, that's good enough for me. In fact, we could've used someone like that. I'm hoping Hargreaves will have a similar effect.

Most of Seria A has kept Kaka quiet this season

I'm proud that we've signed one of the best defensive midfielders in the world, and that he's 'English'

fredthered · 23rd January 2008, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

go support liverpool. sick of all these people slagging our own players and praising one from a rival team. support hargreaves and mascherano can suck owen's dick.

Less than 18 months ago people were wanking themselves off that United may be in with a shout for Mascherano.. Now look. Suddenly hes shite and not fit to play for United.

If we'd signed him instead of Hargreaves then we'd be reversing the argument and Hargreaves would be shite and Mascherano would be god in human form.

The loyalty aspect doesnt come into it. Hargreaves hasnt been an unmitigated success story and theres still a lot he has to do to prove he was worth Uniteds prolonged interest. So far he's not done that. The fact hes been injured makes no odds. He was bought to do a job and so far he hasnt done that job to the standard that I would expect for a player of that value.

Thats not saying he wont, or he isnt capable, its just saying that he hasnt been value for money since we bought him. Only he can change that.

The fact he is a United player isnt going to make me suddenly bow down and say "fuck, he wears a United shirt so he must be god". If hes crap I'll say hes crap and if I see a player from another team whom I think is better then I'll say so...

fredthered · 23rd January 2008, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Cantona

Most of Seria A has kept Kaka quiet this season

I'm proud that we've signed one of the best defensive midfielders in the world, and that he's 'English'

canadian...

Johnno · 23rd January 2008, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttackingFlair

Mascherano kept Kaka quiet, that's good enough for me. In fact, we could've used someone like that. I'm hoping Hargreaves will have a similar effect.

Hargreaves is so comfortable on the ball it’s not funny and he passes beautifully, he hasn’t given the ball away once that I know of, certainly not when it matters, but his main contribution is his presence and tackling ability. OK, Fabregas scored in that match, but aside from that, Hargreaves kept him very quiet really in the 2-2 draw back in November, and he hasn’t really come up against anyone further to really test himself due to injuries or lack of quality opposition (so far).
As I said earlier, the Champions League is where he’ll really shine for us, and I have no doubt he will.

reddevilcanada · 23rd January 2008, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttackingFlair

Mascherano kept Kaka quiet, that's good enough for me. In fact, we could've used someone like that. I'm hoping Hargreaves will have a similar effect.

I hope so too, but if you watched Bayern's second leg game against Milan in Germany last season, he was aboslutely non-existant in that game, one in which a draw would've seen us play Bayern in the semi-finals...

choiboyx012 · 23rd January 2008, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredthered

Less than 18 months ago people were wanking themselves off that United may be in with a shout for Mascherano.. Now look. Suddenly hes shite and not fit to play for United.

If we'd signed him instead of Hargreaves then we'd be reversing the argument and Hargreaves would be shite and Mascherano would be god in human form.

The loyalty aspect doesnt come into it. Hargreaves hasnt been an unmitigated success story and theres still a lot he has to do to prove he was worth Uniteds prolonged interest. So far he's not done that. The fact hes been injured makes no odds. He was bought to do a job and so far he hasnt done that job to the standard that I would expect for a player of that value.

Thats not saying he wont, or he isnt capable, its just saying that he hasnt been value for money since we bought him. Only he can change that.

The fact he is a United player isnt going to make me suddenly bow down and say "fuck, he wears a United shirt so he must be god". If hes crap I'll say hes crap and if I see a player from another team whom I think is better then I'll say so...

i never rated mascherano even when he was a united prospect.
he's only had half a season, but i think he has proved his worth in almost every game he's played. he has done his job very well and will continue to do so. fair enough, you don't have to bow down to him. so i dont have to bow down to carrick. for 17m or whatever he cost, he's crap. and uh... gerrard, lampard, fabregas, guti, snjeider are better.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 23rd January 2008, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozza

Mascherano is also a rubbish footballer

you are hopeless..

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 23rd January 2008, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by REd FUn DevIl

Obviously cause he isnt better than Hargreaves. The only thing i can see Mascherano does have better is the fitness that is the real problem of Hargreaves. On every other aspect Hargreaves is way better than Mascherano and not to mention his experience.

Spot on

jasonrh · 23rd January 2008, 10:30

Can those of you acting like cretins please cease and desist?

Thanks,
The Management.

PS. The idea that a player who is excellent on the pitch, but perhaps unnecessary, is a 'liability' makes no sense.

Mozza · 23rd January 2008, 10:32

Excellent, which game was that then?

Escobar · 23rd January 2008, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

Hargreaves is so comfortable on the ball it’s not funny and he passes beautifully, he hasn’t given the ball away once that I know of, certainly not when it matters, but his main contribution is his presence and tackling ability. OK, Fabregas scored in that match, but aside from that, Hargreaves kept him very quiet really in the 2-2 draw back in November, and he hasn’t really come up against anyone further to really test himself due to injuries or lack of quality opposition (so far).
As I said earlier, the Champions League is where he’ll really shine for us, and I have no doubt he will.

You're not serious though, are you?

Alex · 23rd January 2008, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

You will change your tune after we play the upcoming Champions League matches, and if we beat Lyon like I expect we should do with a fair amount of difficulty let it be said, and we meet an Italian side or God forbid, Chelsea, you shall see the role Hargreaves will play for us.

Sam#1 · 23rd January 2008, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredthered

Less than 18 months ago people were wanking themselves off that United may be in with a shout for Mascherano.. Now look. Suddenly hes shite and not fit to play for United.

If we'd signed him instead of Hargreaves then we'd be reversing the argument and Hargreaves would be shite and Mascherano would be god in human form.

The loyalty aspect doesnt come into it. Hargreaves hasnt been an unmitigated success story and theres still a lot he has to do to prove he was worth Uniteds prolonged interest. So far he's not done that. The fact hes been injured makes no odds. He was bought to do a job and so far he hasnt done that job to the standard that I would expect for a player of that value.

Thats not saying he wont, or he isnt capable, its just saying that he hasnt been value for money since we bought him. Only he can change that.

The fact he is a United player isnt going to make me suddenly bow down and say "fuck, he wears a United shirt so he must be god". If hes crap I'll say hes crap and if I see a player from another team whom I think is better then I'll say so...

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

Hargreaves is so comfortable on the ball it’s not funny and he passes beautifully, he hasn’t given the ball away once that I know of, certainly not when it matters, but his main contribution is his presence and tackling ability. OK, Fabregas scored in that match, but aside from that, Hargreaves kept him very quiet really in the 2-2 draw back in November, and he hasn’t really come up against anyone further to really test himself due to injuries or lack of quality opposition (so far).
As I said earlier, the Champions League is where he’ll really shine for us, and I have no doubt he will.

Please say your one of the following:

A) Joking
B) Drunk
c) Being sarcastic

Julian Denny · 23rd January 2008, 15:29

Its extraordinary how this debate just goes on and on. OH can hardly be described as "one signing too many" when we really haven't seen him play yet. He hasn't yet been employed in a system which suits him against really tough opposition. Injuries haven't helped of course. The fundamental issue is that he was bought to beef up our midfield. He wasn't bought as a sort of stand in or replacement for Carrick or Scholes and now Anderson. He's a totally different type of player. He's there to add steel to the midfield, to break up attacks and close down key opponents with his positional sense, speed and mobility as well as ability to actually win the ball. His ability to crerate things is limited but, once again, that's not what he's there for. He needs to play with Carrick and Scholes or Anderson. They are the creators. They are the ones who can produce that telling pass and score the odd goal too. They may have more ability than OH in those spheres but they don't have his ability as previously outlined.

It won't be long before we face major opposition in Europe and at home in crucial matches when, I hope, Fergie will deploy OH to best advantage. All will then become apparent.

nightcrawler · 23rd January 2008, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

Hargreaves is so comfortable on the ball it’s not funny and he passes beautifully, he hasn’t given the ball away once that I know of, certainly not when it matters, but his main contribution is his presence and tackling ability. OK, Fabregas scored in that match, but aside from that, Hargreaves kept him very quiet really in the 2-2 draw back in November, and he hasn’t really come up against anyone further to really test himself due

23rd January 2008, 01:03	#523 (permalink)
Wes Brown is no God Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, in the Irish Republic Posts: 8,192	I really don't see Mascherano as better than Hargreaves.

23rd January 2008, 01:11	#526 (permalink)
Lady In Red Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,052	Cant believe this thread is still going on

23rd January 2008, 02:16	#531 (permalink)
AttackingFlair Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Location Location Location ;) Posts: 2,928	Mascherano kept Kaka quiet, that's good enough for me. In fact, we could've used someone like that. I'm hoping Hargreaves will have a similar effect.

23rd January 2008, 10:30	#541 (permalink)
jasonrh Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: "You sir, are the syphilitic cockbiscuit son of a hamster rimmer."; "Sir Alex Ferguson, trainer of the English champions, wants to start the spoon fruits since early." Posts: 58,976	Can those of you acting like cretins please cease and desist? Thanks, The Management. PS. The idea that a player who is excellent on the pitch, but perhaps unnecessary, is a 'liability' makes no sense.

23rd January 2008, 10:32	#542 (permalink)
Mozza "Geek" Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Let Rooney be Rooney Posts: 16,745	Excellent, which game was that then?

23rd January 2008, 15:29	#546 (permalink)
Julian Denny Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,457	Its extraordinary how this debate just goes on and on. OH can hardly be described as "one signing too many" when we really haven't seen him play yet. He hasn't yet been employed in a system which suits him against really tough opposition. Injuries haven't helped of course. The fundamental issue is that he was bought to beef up our midfield. He wasn't bought as a sort of stand in or replacement for Carrick or Scholes and now Anderson. He's a totally different type of player. He's there to add steel to the midfield, to break up attacks and close down key opponents with his positional sense, speed and mobility as well as ability to actually win the ball. His ability to crerate things is limited but, once again, that's not what he's there for. He needs to play with Carrick and Scholes or Anderson. They are the creators. They are the ones who can produce that telling pass and score the odd goal too. They may have more ability than OH in those spheres but they don't have his ability as previously outlined. It won't be long before we face major opposition in Europe and at home in crucial matches when, I hope, Fergie will deploy OH to best advantage. All will then become apparent.