Hargreaves - one signing too many?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 24th January 2008, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

I actually stole it from you, I've been reading your emails again mate, sorry...

no worries

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 24th January 2008, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

As I said earlier Chief, they’re just needing a scapegoat for their ‘we must slag off one of our players because we’re not happy being top of the league, still in the FA Cup and still in Europe’ tendencies….

Very true

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 24th January 2008, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDevilCanuck

In order for players to "piss" on a holding midfielder I think they have to score, set up a goal, or make great through balls and intelligent runs. THEY DIDNT DO ANY OF THAT. It was a tight game and Reading defended well and their midfield stopped our creative flow in the middle. Yea they "pissed" on us all right.

Such clear and simple logic is alien to the Hargreaves hate brigade. Trust me.

Sam#1 · 24th January 2008, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Very true. You've pretty much called him shit. Which is far worse. As result basically calling all the managers who rate him from Hitzfeld, to Eriksson, to SAF clueless buffoons.

I haven't said that either.

Van Piorsing · 24th January 2008, 16:29

Jesus Christ, this thread still on...

Ekeke · 24th January 2008, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

carrick was bought at a shocking fee. don't matter. yes they were overpriced but thats the reality of the transfer market especially for english clubs and english players. we got both of them so be happy.

When you consider that playing Carrick allows us to play the flowing football we have for the past year, it wasn't a shocking fee. It's not just about his individual ability but what he brings to the team. Without him we cannot play the same way. Without him we wouldnt have won the league.

Hargreaves on the other hand... May be useful for tough european games (if and when he finds some form) and IF we win the champions league with him playing a major role, then we can compare those price tags.

And Hargreaves is Canadian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

Hargreaves is so comfortable on the ball it’s not funny and he passes beautifully, he hasn’t given the ball away once that I know of

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

Sorry boss, neither one of the three, Hargreaves is all those that I state, can you please show me video evidence of him giving the ball away or making a bad pass to a team-mate? Because all I ever see from him is sheer solidness in the middle of the park, he never puts a foot wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

i can count the number of times he's lost possession or passed it to an opposing player on 1 hand. not a great passer, but he's been solid especially the 1st half of the season, rarely makes mistakes.

=

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

Hargreaves defenders are just pure liars.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 24th January 2008, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

...................
And Hargreaves is Canadian.
=

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

Hargreaves defenders are just pure liars.

Feedingseagulls · 24th January 2008, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Hargreaves on the other hand... May be useful for tough european games (if and when he finds some form) and IF we win the champions league with him playing a major role, then we can compare those price tags.

And Hargreaves is Canadian.

=

As an established Hargreaves defender (and non-liar) I think I should point out that both Johnno and Choiboy have overstated their case.

I've seen Hargreaves lose the ball, both by being tackled and having passes blocked or intercepted. However, he isn't doing this to a greater extent than anyone else in a similar position (Carrick's had loads of shaky games in this regard) - he often shows that he is comfortable on the ball as well.

Unfortunately he hasn't regained the form he showed in pre-season even in the games in which he has performed best.

When he's played a few games on the trot I'll come back to point out some of the unusual and intelligent things I've noticed in his play before.

Ekeke · 24th January 2008, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feedingseagulls

As an established Hargreaves defender (and non-liar) I think I should point out that both Johnno and Choiboy have overstated their case.

As has Mozza in the anti-Hargreaves camp.

Quote:

I've seen Hargreaves lose the ball, both by being tackled and having passes blocked or intercepted. However, he isn't doing this to a greater extent than anyone else in a similar position (Carrick's had loads od shaky games in this regard) - he often shows that he is comfortable on the ball as well.

Unfortunately he hasn't regained the form he showed in pre-season even in the games in which he has performed best.

When he's played a few games on the trot I'll come back to point out some of the unusual and intelligent things I've noticed in his play before.

Brilliant. Thanks. And I do agree about Carrick in the early part of the season, he wasn't doing himself any favours either. But in the last 2 or 3 matches he's been very good which is something I've yet to see from Hargreaves in a United shirt without playing 5 in the middle against inferior teams.

I'm sure I will though, eventually.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 24th January 2008, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

I haven't said that either.

Oh really? So I suppose these statements below constitute high praise in your opinion eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

His passing is poor at best. And you'd need about 100 hands to count the amount of times he gets the ball, and just runs, and then runs a bit more, then runs a little more, before getting tackled or running out of pitch. ..........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

once called Hargreaves world class, and got a lot of abuse. I now see why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

so far he has proved he is certainly not world class, and most definatly not worth £18 million. .

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Originally Posted by Sam#1

...I find it laughable to think he will be able to stop players like Kaka, when, so far this season, he's been unable to control average Premiership players...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

I don't have to, I was at the Reading game, Harper, Hunt and Convey pissed all over him.

Yep. I'm wrong and you're right. the above statements of your's don't equate to basically calling Hargreaves shit and managers who pick him, fools. .

Sam#1 · 24th January 2008, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Oh really? So I suppose these statements below constitute high praise in your opinion eh?

Yep. I'm wrong and you're right. the above statements of your's don't equate to basically calling Hargreaves shit and managers who pick him, fools. .

I think you'll find that all I've said is that he's not world class, not worth £18 million, and hasn't performed to the level I would have expected him to do, so far this season . Not once have a said he is shit, and your now blatantly lying and making things up by saying I have called the managers who pick him, fools. I can categorically say that I have NEVER said that. I'm quite happy to have a debate, but their really is no point if you are just going to bare face lie.

As I've already said, I don't have a problem with Hargreaves, hopefully he'll do a job for us in Europe, but when casting an opinion on him, I have to take into consideration what I've seen whilst he's been at OT, and I'm afraid to say, he's not been very good, you can deny that, but again, you would be lying. On the whole, his performances have been poor, and this is when playing against average Premiership players, which, is why I question how effective he'll be against world class players, such as Kaka, if he has, so far, been unable to handle players, whom have far less ability. And it doesn't really reassure me when I see that many Bayern fans never really rated him, and weren't to bothered when he left. And the reason I haven't given him high praise, is simple, he hasn't warranted it, thus far. But hey, hopefully he steps it up a gear or 3 come the big CL matches and proves me wrong.

Scholesy · 24th January 2008, 19:55

Its very difficult for me to say Hargreaves hasnt been good. Hes a DM. Hes done the defensive side excellently, the best player we have in making tackles, and tracking runs etc etc. Its just his attacking/passing/creating side that has been not good. But this is not his job. Its like saying Rooney has been crap because he hasnt won any tackles, or Rio for not scoring enough.

Hargreaves job is to defend in a midfield, and has done this exceptionally well.

Bape · 24th January 2008, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feedingseagulls

As an established Hargreaves defender (and non-liar) I think I should point out that both Johnno and Choiboy have overstated their case.

I've seen Hargreaves lose the ball, both by being tackled and having passes blocked or intercepted. However, he isn't doing this to a greater extent than anyone else in a similar position (Carrick's had loads of shaky games in this regard) - he often shows that he is comfortable on the ball as well.

Unfortunately he hasn't regained the form he showed in pre-season even in the games in which he has performed best.

When he's played a few games on the trot I'll come back to point out some of the unusual and intelligent things I've noticed in his play before.

Great post.

jasonrh · 24th January 2008, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Cantona

Most of Seria A has kept Kaka quiet this season

I'm proud that we've signed one of the best defensive midfielders in the world, and that he's 'English'

It might have something to do with Kaka being staggeringly overrated.

AC in the last few years have been like Liverpool. They're out of the title race early, so they focus on Europe. By saving it all for a dozen high profile games, Kaka netted himself a player of the year award.

Ronaldo's domestic performances were largely because the rest of Europe still overrates continental leagues and underrates the Premier League. Kaka's appear to be swept under the rug.

jasonrh · 24th January 2008, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

As has Mozza in the anti-Hargreaves camp.

Brilliant. Thanks. And I do agree about Carrick in the early part of the season, he wasn't doing himself any favours either. But in the last 2 or 3 matches he's been very good which is something I've yet to see from Hargreaves in a United shirt without playing 5 in the middle against inferior teams.

I'm sure I will though, eventually.

Mozza worships Carrick, therefore he's not too fond of someone directly competing for his slot.

choiboyx012 · 24th January 2008, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

When you consider that playing Carrick allows us to play the flowing football we have for the past year, it wasn't a shocking fee. It's not just about his individual ability but what he brings to the team. Without him we cannot play the same way. Without him we wouldnt have won the league.

Hargreaves on the other hand... May be useful for tough european games (if and when he finds some form) and IF we win the champions league with him playing a major role, then we can compare those price tags.

And Hargreaves is Canadian.

=

you can say that about every player last season. we wouldn't have won without scholes. we wouldn't have won without saha, rooney, ronaldo, evra, vidic, rio, vds, giggs.... even john freakin o'shea and park ji sung.. even judas. everyone had a role to play last season.. scoring important goals, making important stops, of the starting 11, carrick was the least important imo in winning the league.

choiboyx012 · 24th January 2008, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

I think you'll find that all I've said is that he's not world class, not worth £18 million, and hasn't performed to the level I would have expected him to do, so far this season . Not once have a said he is shit, and your now blatantly lying and making things up by saying I have called the managers who pick him, fools. I can categorically say that I have NEVER said that. I'm quite happy to have a debate, but their really is no point if you are just going to bare face lie.

As I've already said, I don't have a problem with Hargreaves, hopefully he'll do a job for us in Europe, but when casting an opinion on him, I have to take into consideration what I've seen whilst he's been at OT, and I'm afraid to say, he's not been very good, you can deny that, but again, you would be lying. On the whole, his performances have been poor, and this is when playing against average Premiership players, which, is why I question how effective he'll be against world class players, such as Kaka, if he has, so far, been unable to handle players, whom have far less ability. And it doesn't really reassure me when I see that many Bayern fans never really rated him, and weren't to bothered when he left. And the reason I haven't given him high praise, is simple, he hasn't warranted it, thus far. But hey, hopefully he steps it up a gear or 3 come the big CL matches and proves me wrong.

his performances have been poor? that's why he had 6 or however many MoM ratings as someone said (which i do remember). who exactly was he "unable" to handle?? he has handled pretty much every midfield opponent so far. you're right that he doesn't warrant "high praise" but he has not been poor, only off-form for the past 2-3 games.

Sjarkus · 24th January 2008, 20:34

I think he'll become useful for us, he's shown that against Liverpool and Arsenal(at times).

What he need is to regain his full fitness, then stay fit for a while and compete with Carrick for that midfield slot alongside Anderson(or Scholes when he returns.)

He's been very good for 5 or 6 matches, brilliant against Liverpool, and quite shit against West Ham. Average against Reading.

That's not sounding like a shite player.

As for his passing, both camps are overdoing it I feel. He's not a perfect passer, but he's more than good enough to find other, more creative players. I reckon he can be as valuable to the squad as Carrick, he needs to stay fit for a while though.

choiboyx012 · 24th January 2008, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

When you consider that playing Carrick allows us to play the flowing football we have for the past year, it wasn't a shocking fee. It's not just about his individual ability but what he brings to the team. Without him we cannot play the same way. Without him we wouldnt have won the league.

Hargreaves on the other hand... May be useful for tough european games (if and when he finds some form) and IF we win the champions league with him playing a major role, then we can compare those price tags.

And Hargreaves is Canadian.

=

also, it's not like we've struggled to score with hargreaves in the side. he allows our attackers to attack gung-ho, he even allowed carrick to attack last game so yes hargreaves brings something to the team.. defensive cover and a person who turns the ball over for counterattacks.

as for the champions league.. what if we lose the CL with carrick on the side? will you call him overpriced then? no, you and everyone else will probably jump on the sell-hargreaves bandwagon if we don't win the CL and all the blame will be put on him.

choiboyx012 · 24th January 2008, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjarkus

I think he'll become useless for us, he's shown that against Liverpool and Arsenal(at times).

What he need is to regain his full fitness, then stay fit for a while and compete with Carrick for that midfield slot alongside Anderson(or Scholes when he returns.)

He's been very good for 5 or 6 matches, brilliant against Liverpool, and quite shit against West Ham. Average against Reading.

That's not sounding like a shite player.

As for his passing, both camps are overdoing it I feel. He's not a perfect passer, but he's more than good enough to find other, more creative players. I reckon he can be as valuable to the squad as Carrick, he needs to stay fit for a while though.

who wasn't trash against westham? how many games has carrick been poor or mediocre? the last 2 games and chelsea at home are the only decent performances that stand out so far.

sincher · 24th January 2008, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjarkus

I think he'll become useless for us

Sjarkus · 24th January 2008, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by sincher

Oh, crap. Now I look like a right tit.

To be fair, I was thinking about you Sincher when writing that.

Wes · 24th January 2008, 20:51

I see it rages on and on.

Hargreaves defenders just cannot seem to tell the truth, that he has been ridiculously inconsistent this season. I'd have more respect if they did.

Red Indian with his usual multiquoting bollocks, did you see last night game by any chance RITCR? When Makelele played brilliant passes consistently?

Your posts really lack credibilty and no-one takes any notice of what you say. Please change OR go somewhere else.

Stop bringing it back to Carrick aswell, he has proved himself to anyone with any brains. If anyone thinks I don't think Hargreaves is a decent player with a first team future at this club, read my posts, he does.

choiboyx012 · 24th January 2008, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

I see it rages on and on.

Hargreaves defenders just cannot seem to tell the truth, that he has been ridiculously inconsistent this season. I'd have more respect if they did.

Red Indian with his usual multiquoting bollocks, did you see last night game by any chance RITCR? When Makelele played brilliant passes consistently?

Your posts really lack credibilty and no-one takes any notice of what you say. Please change OR go somewhere else.

Stop bringing it back to Carrick aswell, he has proved himself to anyone with any brains. If anyone thinks I don't think Hargreaves is a decent player with a first team future at this club, read my posts, he does.

he's been no more inconsistent than carrick, both have been off-form.. carrick in the beginning, hargreaves recently.. it's more down to injuries and not having a run of games.

24th January 2008, 16:29	#645 (permalink)
Van Piorsing Lost his light sabre Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Polska Posts: 10,019	Jesus Christ, this thread still on...

24th January 2008, 19:55	#652 (permalink)
Scholesy biggest idiotic gay in the village Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Village Posts: 4,004	Its very difficult for me to say Hargreaves hasnt been good. Hes a DM. Hes done the defensive side excellently, the best player we have in making tackles, and tracking runs etc etc. Its just his attacking/passing/creating side that has been not good. But this is not his job. Its like saying Rooney has been crap because he hasnt won any tackles, or Rio for not scoring enough. Hargreaves job is to defend in a midfield, and has done this exceptionally well.

24th January 2008, 20:34	#658 (permalink)
Sjarkus Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Administrating Spoony's PM inbox. Posts: 2,164	I think he'll become useful for us, he's shown that against Liverpool and Arsenal(at times). What he need is to regain his full fitness, then stay fit for a while and compete with Carrick for that midfield slot alongside Anderson(or Scholes when he returns.) He's been very good for 5 or 6 matches, brilliant against Liverpool, and quite shit against West Ham. Average against Reading. That's not sounding like a shite player. As for his passing, both camps are overdoing it I feel. He's not a perfect passer, but he's more than good enough to find other, more creative players. I reckon he can be as valuable to the squad as Carrick, he needs to stay fit for a while though.

24th January 2008, 20:51	#663 (permalink)
Wes Brown is no God Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, in the Irish Republic Posts: 8,192	I see it rages on and on. Hargreaves defenders just cannot seem to tell the truth, that he has been ridiculously inconsistent this season. I'd have more respect if they did. Red Indian with his usual multiquoting bollocks, did you see last night game by any chance RITCR? When Makelele played brilliant passes consistently? Your posts really lack credibilty and no-one takes any notice of what you say. Please change OR go somewhere else. Stop bringing it back to Carrick aswell, he has proved himself to anyone with any brains. If anyone thinks I don't think Hargreaves is a decent player with a first team future at this club, read my posts, he does.