Hargreaves - one signing too many?

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

I stopped reading as soon as i saw that.

Originally Posted by djemba's arse

It isn't the sole responsibility of Hargreaves that Jenas was clean through three times. However, when you consider the fact that Jenas DID in fact have three clear cut goal scoring opportunities (all of which Kaka would have buried), would it be fair to say that whatever defensive bonus there might be in playing Hargreaves isn't great enough to cancel out his offensive shortcomings?

He's a good player, he was decent today, but he isn't THAT much better defensively than Scholes, Anderson, Carrick. But he is clearly inferior to all of them when we have the ball. Some say that doesn't matter 'cos "it's not his job". I don't care what his job description is - bottom line is if he doesn't improve us then he shouldn't be first choice. The scousers have invented the 'defensive striker' job description for Kuyt, so that they can argue that he's actually very good. I see some of the same in the arguments people use when they say that Hargreaves has had an excellent game (note: does not necessarily apply to todays game).

Once he settles in more, I think he'll improve the offensive parts of his game, and he certainly brings something to the table that we don't already have. But to me, he doesn't seem to make a good case for being first choice in central midfield at the moment.

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Don't worry about the length, feel the quality! Good post.

And you've made one point that nobody else seems to have taken into account. Hargreaves job is to basically follow the ball around midfield, harrying the opposition and denying them any time on the ball (the main reason Berbatov was almost completely anonymous).

Originally Posted by Plechazunga

I thought Hargreaves played very well today, won a hell of a lot of ball and used it decently

Originally Posted by Alex

I really can't believe people are slagging him he was great today, yeah he made a mistake or two, but it didnt cost United a goal, get over it.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

So we bought a much more expensive but much less fit Darren Fletcher for our £17 million that is going to get shown up in europe.

Brilliant.

If that's the truly the plan, why is it the plan? Fletcher has been brilliant in europe the past year and in almost all of our games against the bigger teams he does a harassing job very, very well.

For £17 million you expect a player with some positional awareness. Which usually, I think he has. Today he did not and if he's going to "Fletcher" then he obviously doesn't have it.

How about we have our defensive midfielder do his defensive midfield duty and screen the defence and passing the ball accurately to a team mate before we worry about anything else. When he can complete the basics we can move on to do or die tackles on the half way line that will either stop an attack or leave us completely 100% exposed.

He had 1 player to track and that was the central player bombing forward. Tainio held and Jenas bombed forwards. The wide players are the responsibility of the full backs and when need be, the wingers.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

So we bought a much more expensive but much less fit Darren Fletcher for our £17 million that is going to get shown up in europe.

Brilliant.

If that's the truly the plan, why is it the plan? Fletcher has been brilliant in europe the past year and in almost all of our games against the bigger teams he does a harassing job very, very well.

For £17 million you expect a player with some positional awareness. Which usually, I think he has. Today he did not and if he's going to "Fletcher" then he obviously doesn't have it.

How about we have our defensive midfielder do his defensive midfield duty and screen the defence and passing the ball accurately to a team mate before we worry about anything else. When he can complete the basics we can move on to do or die tackles on the half way line that will either stop an attack or leave us completely 100% exposed.

He had 1 player to track and that was the central player bombing forward. Tainio held and Jenas bombed forwards. The wide players are the responsibility of the full backs and when need be, the wingers.

Originally Posted by redender

Ekeke clearly has issues with him.

Originally Posted by Shotgun raisin

United have played 23 games in the PL this season (2070 minutes), scoring 46 goals and conceding 11. Of that playing time, Hargreaves has been involved for 935 minutes.

During the time that Hargreaves has been on the pitch we've scored 13 goals and conceded 6 - an average of 72 minutes per goal scored and 156 minutes per goal conceded.

When Hargreaves hasn't been playing, (the remaining 1135 minutes) we've scored 33 goals and conceded 5 - an average of 34 minutes per goal scored and 227 minutes per goal conceded.

We score more and concede fewer when he's not in the team. In fact, we score shitloads more when he's not playing.

Originally Posted by Shotgun raisin

United have played 23 games in the PL this season (2070 minutes), scoring 46 goals and conceding 11. Of that playing time, Hargreaves has been involved for 935 minutes.

During the time that Hargreaves has been on the pitch we've scored 13 goals and conceded 6 - an average of 72 minutes per goal scored and 156 minutes per goal conceded.

When Hargreaves hasn't been playing, (the remaining 1135 minutes) we've scored 33 goals and conceded 5 - an average of 34 minutes per goal scored and 227 minutes per goal conceded.

We score more and concede fewer when he's not in the team. In fact, we score shitloads more when he's not playing.

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

I think some people won't be happy unless we win games 6 nil, without conceding a single attempt on our goal.

It's arrogant attitudes like that which give United fans a bad game. How's about giving Spurs some fucking credit, you spackers?

They humped Arsenal mid-week, in case you hadn't noticed. A game which was characterised by Jenas and Malbranque surging forward from midfield' leaving a quick and extremely talented footballer like Fabregas chasing shadows.

Just because Jenas lost Hargreaves twice this is seen as some reason why he didn't have a good game or is going to be our Achilles heel in Europe. Sorry, but that is grade A muppetry. Jenas is an athletic, talented footballer who is quick as fuck and ran his fecking legs off today. He deserves at least some credit for making some great runs from deep and losing his marker.

Hargreaves has had a stop-start season and needs a few games to get fully match-fit. Just because he lost his man, a couple of times, is no reason to get on his fucking back. These things happen in football matches. When you play against a good team, you will concede chances. And Spurs, under Ramos, are a good team. No need for a fucking CSI-style post-mortem on ever single opportunity they created.

Wouldn't it be nice, just for once, if you caftards could praise the opposition and give credit to players from the other team, instead of this constant fucking obession with scape-goating our own players? I won't hold my breath.

Originally Posted by Shotgun raisin

United have played 23 games in the PL this season (2070 minutes), scoring 46 goals and conceding 11. Of that playing time, Hargreaves has been involved for 935 minutes.

During the time that Hargreaves has been on the pitch we've scored 13 goals and conceded 6 - an average of 72 minutes per goal scored and 156 minutes per goal conceded.

When Hargreaves hasn't been playing, (the remaining 1135 minutes) we've scored 33 goals and conceded 5 - an average of 34 minutes per goal scored and 227 minutes per goal conceded.

We score more and concede fewer when he's not in the team. In fact, we score shitloads more when he's not playing.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Gattuso ran riot?

Bollocks, you're just back to lying again. You said Kaka ran riot and if he had played against Hargreaves today he'd have had a hat trick.

Originally Posted by Shotgun raisin

United have played 23 games in the PL this season (2070 minutes), scoring 46 goals and conceding 11. Of that playing time, Hargreaves has been involved for 935 minutes.

During the time that Hargreaves has been on the pitch we've scored 13 goals and conceded 6 - an average of 72 minutes per goal scored and 156 minutes per goal conceded.

When Hargreaves hasn't been playing, (the remaining 1135 minutes) we've scored 33 goals and conceded 5 - an average of 34 minutes per goal scored and 227 minutes per goal conceded.

We score more and concede fewer when he's not in the team. In fact, we score shitloads more when he's not playing.

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

You're really clueless. Anyone who watched the Milan games knows what Gatusso did to us. Without him would Milan would have done little to us. The first leg alone proved that,. To claim I said Kaka run riot shows what a moron you really a re.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

It wasnt me who said it, it was many of those who are calling Hargreaves' performance "great" today, including a certain Red Chief of Indians person.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Fact is, Gattuso didn't do it alone.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

........Gattuso made more intimidating noises and scowly faces though. Contributing factors included our extremely weak defence and Milan's constrictive formation.

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Gattuso did his job well on the day.

Originally Posted by choiboyx012

retarded stats

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Utter bullshit

Originally Posted by Shotgun raisin

FFS, now you're arguing against maths.

Originally Posted by Iron Stove

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Anyhow, Looking at todays game I think it's silly to only blame Hargreaves for the times when an attacking Tottenham player was given too much space coming through the centre as I believe Carrick was sharing an equal amount of defensive responsibility. Carrick wasn't (or wasn't supposed to be) floating around in some free Zidanesque offensive role leaving Owen to defend, he played where he always does and let's not forget that he was the 'main' defending midfielder last season. The midfield today wasn't supposed to be one defending and one attacking midfielder, it was supposed to work as an entity consisting of two players sharing responsibilities.
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Originally Posted by Sultan

Brilliant stats - you've proved my reservations.

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Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Yes. Mere figures without any relevant data behind them are just that. Mere figures.