If Rooney..

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Ridiculous comment. First of all, are you seriously saying he can't improve this area of his game? Second of all, he's already proved he is a quality finisher, in his first two seasons at the club. Absolutely no reason he can't start scoring for fun again.

Your favourite player, Torres, had a dreadful record in one on ones, for Atletico and for Spain, would you have said he would never be a quality finisher?

Childish. Torres is not my favourite player, but hey, lets just say so so that you can demean another poster.

Rooney misses far too many chances to be classed as a quality finisher. I am not saying he cannot improve, but it is not a natural part of his game. We have had natural finishers at United down the years - in the Solskjaer/van Nistelrooy mould.

Rooney is not in the same bracket. Jeez, some of you take a perfectly reasonable constructive criticism and assume it means I hate the bloke!

With Torres - I never made any speculations about his abilities (current or potential) before I saw him regularly in the PL. So I can't really comment...

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojojo

The game's also about the other 89 minutes.

It's also about:
Zidane - 95 goals in 500 games (31 in 108 for France)
Ronaldinho - 126 in 301, 24 in his best season (32 in 80 for Brasil)
Charlton - 279 in 828 (49 in 106 for England)

Different players, different styles but every one of them a match turner.

The top scorer in the PL in 98/99 was Hasselbank but it was Yorke, Cole, OJS and Sheringham who have the memories. We've had the PL's top scorer once since its inception (RvN in 2003) For the fourth season in succession Rooney will score about 20 goals - and some of them will be crucial.

Sure I'd like to see him score more (because I'm greedy and I think he likes scoring) and maybe next season he'll do the Henry-esque leap and become a 30ish a year player instead of a 20ish. But if he doesn't it might be down to the kind of player he's "meant" to be rather than how many hours he spends practising finishing.

You make perfectly good points. They would be wholly applicable if Rooney were playing a withdrawn role. But he is deployed as a centre forward now and as such his main priority must be sticking chances away.

We have been fortunate that Ronaldo's goal getting form has been incessant this season. Because if he wereto stop scoring from here on in, Rooney is not doing enough to make up the short fall. None of the team is really. That is why we need a proper striker, and then move Rooney to his natural position on the field IMO.

Dippersripper · 26th March 2008, 11:16

My answer to OPs question is NO. Rooney's problem is not finishing, its his consistently. He will be atleast as good as Ronaldo if he consistently delivers Liverpool like performances.

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Childish. Torres is not my favourite player, but hey, lets just say so so that you can demean another poster.

Rooney misses far too many chances to be classed as a quality finisher. I am not saying he cannot improve, but it is not a natural part of his game. We have had natural finishers at United down the years - in the Solskjaer/van Nistelrooy mould.

Rooney is not in the same bracket. Jeez, some of you take a perfectly reasonable constructive criticism and assume it means I hate the bloke!

With Torres - I never made any speculations about his abilities (current or potential) before I saw him regularly in the PL. So I can't really comment...

The point is, Torres used to be a shit finisher, now look at him.

So if he can improve, then surely Rooney can too ?

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

The point is, Torres used to be a shit finisher, now look at him.

So if he can improve, then surely Rooney can too ?

Absolutely. But I don't understand how it has come to me fielding this question.

I never made any statement about Rooney's ability to improve himself. I merely asserted he is not a natural finisher.

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Absolutely. But I don't understand how it has come to me fielding this question.

I never made any statement about Rooney's ability to improve himself. I merely asserted he is not a natural finisher.

I don't know either. I was originally replying to Bape.

Colly · 26th March 2008, 11:41

I think Rooney is a good finisher - I actually think he's been a tad complacent with some of his chances this season. There've been a few where he just should have put his laces thru the ball but tried a clever dink or chip instead. He'll get it right again, no doubt. The kid's a superstar !!

cw1984 · 26th March 2008, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colly

I think Rooney is a good finisher - I actually think he's been a tad complacent with some of his chances this season. There've been a few where he just should have put his laces thru the ball but tried a clever dink or chip instead. He'll get it right again, no doubt. The kid's a superstar !!

He isnt a natural goalscorer. He wasnt when we bought him and i dont expect him to ever become one.

He once said in an interview "If i dont know where the ball is going to go then how does the 'keeper?"

Draw your own conclusions from that.....

Pogue Mahone · 26th March 2008, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Rooney is never going to be in the quality finisher category. He clearly fannies around too much with an assortment of ridiculous chipped efforts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Absolutely. But I don't understand how it has come to me fielding this question.

I never made any statement about Rooney's ability to improve himself

...

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

...

Fair enough. Point I am trying to get at is that he is not a natural finisher. He never will be. You either are or you aren't.

He may improve, but it won't be a strength of his.

Pogue Mahone · 26th March 2008, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw1984

He isnt a natural goalscorer. He wasnt when we bought him and i dont expect him to ever become one.

He was a natural goal-scorer when we brought him. Remember him giving that keeper "the eyes" when he scored for England?

And he was lethal in one on ones when he first hit form at United. There was a time when you just knew he was going to score, every time he went through on goal. It has become a bit of an issue for him recently, to be fair but I still think the caftards are making much ado about nothing.

When you think back on the season as a whole, I can think of maybe 4 or 5 occasions when he's been clean through on goal and fluffed his opportunity. Obviously, that's not what you would expect from a player of his quality but it;s far too early to decide that this is an aspect of his game that will always be a problem, especially when we've already seen how lethal he can be in front of goal.

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 12:10

1:44 - He's got the ability...

RedDevilCanuck · 26th March 2008, 14:17

Play him in a Bergkamp role or the role that Scholes used to play and he will be top five in the world.

Coca Cola · 26th March 2008, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDevilCanuck

Play him in a Bergkamp role or the role that Scholes used to play and he will be top five in the world.

but would it make his finishing better? he´s already playing terrific football, that´s not the issue. his finishing is.

I think Rooney has it in him to be a top class finisher and he showed it early on in the season when he scored something like 8 in 8. I think he´ll come good. Against Liverpool his movement was excellent, he was making all the right runs, if he continues to do that the goals will come. he´s looking fitter, hungrier and more confident than he has for a while and I truly think it´s only a matter of time before he starts banging them in.

CapeTownRed · 26th March 2008, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Oh for fuck's sake. Another thread about Rooney's "poor finishing". He is a quality finisher who's having an iffy season, which means he is missing chances he would usually finish in his sleep.

He doesn't need to fecking work on his finishing. He just needs to regain some form and play a decent run of games. Then the goals will start to flow again. I reckon he's still only at about 80% of what he could be.

But I think the signs are there that he's about to burst into life and score a shit-load of goals. And then all these doubts about his finishing will seem ridiculous.

He really isn't. At best he's an amazing player and good finisher. His finishing has never been top drawer but he's scored as many goals as he has so far because his movement, positioning and the service he receives are all exceptional and his finishing on average is probably just above average.

He's young though, so this doesn't bother me much. Would be nice if his finishing matched the rest of his game sooner rather than later though...

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

1:44 - He's got the ability...

No one denies he has the ability. His failure to consistently apply his ability is disconcerting.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th March 2008, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by amolbhatia100

improved his finishing the way Ronaldo has, how good can he be?

....?

As good as Ronaldo

kanchelskis14 · 26th March 2008, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashedHombre

Whats your opinion on Tevez then...?

He's another one i haven't made my mind up on to be honest. He can be very good, i used to think he was actually better than Rooney, not so sure now though. Tevez scored a lot of goals in South America, and has scored well at international level too. His un for West Ham at the end of the season enhanced his reputation in my view, although the close analysis this season has made me a bit more unsure. He was great in the first part of the season, never gave the ball away, it seemed to be glued to his feet.

At the moment, i'd say neither he or Rooney are worth the money we paid for them, Rooney doesn't look like he should have cost £27m in my view, and Tevez doesn't look worth the reported £25m or whatever it may be. However, my view could change over time, and as i said, i'm reserving judgement on the pair for now.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th March 2008, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapeTownRed

He really isn't. At best he's an amazing player and good finisher. His finishing has never been top drawer but he's scored as many goals as he has so far because his movement, positioning and the service he receives are all exceptional and his finishing on average is probably just above average.

He's young though, so this doesn't bother me much. Would be nice if his finishing matched the rest of his game sooner rather than later though...

seconded

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th March 2008, 15:28

Finishing is finishing folks. So it shouldn't just be overly dependent on form liek some suggest is the case with Wayne. .

Psmith · 26th March 2008, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Fair enough. Point I am trying to get at is that he is not a natural finisher. He never will be. You either are or you aren't.

That's debatable. Would you say Ronaldo's a natural finisher?

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psmith

That's debatable. Would you say Ronaldo's a natural finisher?

Ronaldo is a freakish case. I'd be inclined to say the fruits of his labour are the result of real practise and perserverance. He has a lot of shots per game.

I'd say Solskjaer and van Nistelrooy were the two most natural finishers I've seen at United.

kanchelskis14 · 26th March 2008, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Ronaldo is a freakish case. I'd be inclined to say the fruits of his labour are the result of real practise and perserverance. He has a lot of shots per game.

I'd say Solskjaer and van Nistelrooy were the two most natural finishers I've seen at United.

Solskjaer is the best finisher i've seen at United in my time, but after him, i'd say Paul Scholes in his prime was better than Ruud.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Solskjaer is the best finisher i've seen at United in my time, but after him, i'd say Paul Scholes in his prime was better than Ruud.

It is arguable. Scholes is very calm in front of goal. He also has a great variety to his finishing.

There has not been a steelier finisher in front of goal than Ole at United.

Julian Denny · 26th March 2008, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

At the moment, i'd say neither he or Rooney are worth the money we paid for them, Rooney doesn't look like he should have cost £27m in my view, and Tevez doesn't look worth the reported £25m or whatever it may be. However, my view could change over time, and as i said, i'm reserving judgement on the pair for now.

You must be joking about Rooney ! Worth every penny in my view and he's only 22. Carlos is another case altogether - you cannot begin to compare his contribution to United with Wayne's. The jury is still out for me on CT but to be fair it's still early days.

Julian Denny · 26th March 2008, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

I'd say Solskjaer and van Nistelrooy were the two most natural finishers I've seen at United.

Certainly OGS looked a natural and yet his goals per game ratio isn't as good as Wayne's. Certainly not in Ruud's league (or Law, Viollet and Taylor's either)

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian Denny

Certainly OGS looked a natural and yet his goals per game ratio isn't as good as Wayne's. Certainly not in Ruud's league (or Law, Viollet and Taylor's either)

That is true. But don't forget that a player who comes from the bench as frequently as Ole did is unlikely to have such exceptional statistics. Ole's record coming from the bench was sensational.

I bet if it were possible to do a minutes per goal analysis of Ole's career he would be near the top of the list.

26th March 2008, 11:16	#43 (permalink)
Dippersripper Fancies Footballers - Gaylord Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Founder of "Bring back Marliman" society. Posts: 5,082	My answer to OPs question is NO. Rooney's problem is not finishing, its his consistently. He will be atleast as good as Ronaldo if he consistently delivers Liverpool like performances.

26th March 2008, 11:41	#47 (permalink)
Colly Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,183	I think Rooney is a good finisher - I actually think he's been a tad complacent with some of his chances this season. There've been a few where he just should have put his laces thru the ball but tried a clever dink or chip instead. He'll get it right again, no doubt. The kid's a superstar !!

26th March 2008, 12:10	#52 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo >>> Anyone. And yes, I still love Jamie Lynn Spears. Posts: 10,674	1:44 - He's got the ability...

26th March 2008, 14:17	#53 (permalink)
RedDevilCanuck Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,058	Play him in a Bergkamp role or the role that Scholes used to play and he will be top five in the world.

26th March 2008, 15:28	#60 (permalink)
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Football Fanatics Central..new member of the kill Sjarkus club Posts: 17,265	Finishing is finishing folks. So it shouldn't just be overly dependent on form liek some suggest is the case with Wayne. .